Countering Naval Supremacy on WW3

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    • Teburu wrote:

      ewac123 wrote:

      DOA70 wrote:

      user8394273 wrote:

      ... This leads me to wonder, is there any way on WW3 to win after utterly losing total control of the waters? [note naval recon spam (if it manages to overcome the frig spam) can be in theory entirely eliminated by aircraft carriers and superiority aircraft, if I'm going to go full naval doctrine]
      The frigate / destroyer stack is the hardest to counter as it requires a lot of high level ASW heli's to deal with. Or at least enough helicopters to damage the frigates so that the naval patrol aircraft can do their thing. Either way, it's tough. The key is other nations have to keep an eye on the map and the newspaper to check and see if a nation has built up a big navy. Because you are right, once you've got that stranglehold, it is very tough to break. And so the answer is, don't let it happen.
      umm no...DoD and teburu aren't elite alliance match champions(they are great at public games though) (to my knowledge, pretty much no one is a alliance match champ on the forum other than opulon)There's something called a "cruiser"(it tends to do 2.5x damage than a frigate), also something called a "aip sub" which beats a destroyer if you try to use ships offensively in shallow waters
      Knowing you, you have not unlocked the aip sub and may never will...(it's no longer available)
      Also FYI without aip sub cruiser is virtually unbeatable... other than naval recon(which doesn't work well, cruiser has anti air and has 5x the HP)
      Theres also something called shore based artillery which kinda screws you if he built a combat outpost in the mountains..Also mobile launched bms
      While all this sounds expensive, considering your small economy versus theirs it's entirely possible

      Btw: how many of those silly noobs were under rank 20?
      >unbeatable except that it can be beaten by units x,y and zlmao

      and the thing making the cruiser great for navy isnt primarily the dmg output; but the speed and range advantage it gets over other units
      Reading comprehension ya'll, reading comprehension. *sigh*

      edited to add: And by "ya'll", I mean Teburu and ewac.
    • DOA70 wrote:

      Teburu wrote:

      ewac123 wrote:

      DOA70 wrote:

      user8394273 wrote:

      ... This leads me to wonder, is there any way on WW3 to win after utterly losing total control of the waters? [note naval recon spam (if it manages to overcome the frig spam) can be in theory entirely eliminated by aircraft carriers and superiority aircraft, if I'm going to go full naval doctrine]
      The frigate / destroyer stack is the hardest to counter as it requires a lot of high level ASW heli's to deal with. Or at least enough helicopters to damage the frigates so that the naval patrol aircraft can do their thing. Either way, it's tough. The key is other nations have to keep an eye on the map and the newspaper to check and see if a nation has built up a big navy. Because you are right, once you've got that stranglehold, it is very tough to break. And so the answer is, don't let it happen.
      umm no...DoD and teburu aren't elite alliance match champions(they are great at public games though) (to my knowledge, pretty much no one is a alliance match champ on the forum other than opulon)There's something called a "cruiser"(it tends to do 2.5x damage than a frigate), also something called a "aip sub" which beats a destroyer if you try to use ships offensively in shallow watersKnowing you, you have not unlocked the aip sub and may never will...(it's no longer available)
      Also FYI without aip sub cruiser is virtually unbeatable... other than naval recon(which doesn't work well, cruiser has anti air and has 5x the HP)
      Theres also something called shore based artillery which kinda screws you if he built a combat outpost in the mountains..Also mobile launched bms
      While all this sounds expensive, considering your small economy versus theirs it's entirely possible

      Btw: how many of those silly noobs were under rank 20?
      >unbeatable except that it can be beaten by units x,y and zlmao
      and the thing making the cruiser great for navy isnt primarily the dmg output; but the speed and range advantage it gets over other units
      Reading comprehension ya'll, reading comprehension. *sigh*
      edited to add: And by "ya'll", I mean Teburu and ewac.
      no you? what even is your point
      I am The Baseline for opinions
    • hey guys,
      A lot of you mention 'hit and run' tactics in naval battles, but my query is even if you have the attack range advantage how do you ID the target (blue dot) before hitting them as you could be hitting a neutral fleet?
      What have I missed here? How do you know that blue dot is your enemy? If you're using UAVs surely that would get downed if you're already at war with your target.
    • Teburu wrote:

      no you? what even is your point
      So why would you list a bunch of NAVAL units that can beat a frigate / destroyer combo when the entire question was based on the premise of naval units NOT being an option. Kinda stupid isn't it?

      no shit cruisers can beat frigates and destroyers. That *is* the primary counter to the stack. But if that is taken off the table, then what do you do? Let's pretend you are Afghanistan and you don't *quite* have the resources to annex and hold a coastal city long enough to build up the level 4 naval base and you are faced with a beast that controls the seas. Since clearly you know everything there is to know about this game, enlighten us, now that you also know the restrictions you face - assuming you read this far that is.
    • Tom_Cruise wrote:

      hey guys,
      A lot of you mention 'hit and run' tactics in naval battles, but my query is even if you have the attack range advantage how do you ID the target (blue dot) before hitting them as you could be hitting a neutral fleet?
      What have I missed here? How do you know that blue dot is your enemy? If you're using UAVs surely that would get downed if you're already at war with your target.
      Well, them shooting down your UAV tells you that you can shoot back ;)

      I use helicopters to scout if they are relatively close to shore, as only high level cruisers and carriers are dangerous to them. If I go UAV, I also tend to try and research them to stealth - only high level frigates can detect them. Otherwise, you have to use a bait ship to sail into vision range, get popped if its an enemy, and then sail away (assuming it survives). early / mid game subs are pretty good at scouting too. Just gotta adapt to what your enemy is doing.
    • >complains about reading comprehension
      >has none himself
      to sum the thread up for you:
      user: „is there any way to fight navy if you have superior economy?(in a way that doesn’t involve navy?)
      Teburu: in theory just play the long game (helis/missiles) cuz economy advantage, or simply conquer the rest of vp needed if thats an option but it’s not really realistic to expect to win against a dude with dedicated navy without navy of your own
      DoD>user: You only have been fighting noobs; your strat wouldn’t work against me
      Doa>user:frigates/destroyers are hard to counter; you’re right to assume that the given scenario is pretty fucked
      [OT back and forth between user and DoD]
      ewac: cruiser beats frigs and destroyers and subs beat cruisers
      Teburu: correcting a technicality/ adding that cruisers stomp other navy so hard cuz early range
      [slight argument between Teburu and ewac]
      Dracula: (fleet) size doesn’t matter, technique (hit and run) does
      cipher>user: frigate destroyer combo has weaknesses x,y and z; they could also just use bombers on your homeland
      juggernaut: just build subs lol or use missiles
      Teburu>juggernaut: missing the point + frigates go brrt
      oscar>ewac: reply to ewac about carriers
      doa: necroing the thread just to offend ppl with your lack of reading comprehension

      what you are referring to was pretty much a completely different convo and if you had actually read the whole thread then you would have seen that literally the first reply to this thread is my answer to the question asked
      like yikes dude; i even told juggernaut guy that expecting to get a naval base up and running while at war with someone that holds naval superiority is a pretty unrealistic plan
      I am The Baseline for opinions
    • Tom_Cruise wrote:

      hey guys,
      A lot of you mention 'hit and run' tactics in naval battles, but my query is even if you have the attack range advantage how do you ID the target (blue dot) before hitting them as you could be hitting a neutral fleet?
      What have I missed here? How do you know that blue dot is your enemy? If you're using UAVs surely that would get downed if you're already at war with your target.
      how do you know that dot is an enemy?
      A: you don’t
      B from context
      if that tiny blue dot is moving into direction of your homeland there is a pretty solid chance its hostile
      also helps that im pretty indiscriminate when fighting navy; if its a blue dot and within range it will get hit…shouldn’t have parked your ships in a warzone if youre not a participant (also you can always apologize afterwards if you feel like it)
      edit: funfact is that unless its max lvl frigates they wont be able to detect uavs cuz they have a low signature
      I am The Baseline for opinions
    • Teburu wrote:

      Tom_Cruise wrote:

      hey guys,
      A lot of you mention 'hit and run' tactics in naval battles, but my query is even if you have the attack range advantage how do you ID the target (blue dot) before hitting them as you could be hitting a neutral fleet?
      What have I missed here? How do you know that blue dot is your enemy? If you're using UAVs surely that would get downed if you're already at war with your target.
      how do you know that dot is an enemy?A: you don’t
      B from context
      if that tiny blue dot is moving into direction of your homeland there is a pretty solid chance its hostile
      also helps that im pretty indiscriminate when fighting navy; if its a blue dot and within range it will get hit…shouldn’t have parked your ships in a warzone if youre not a participant (also you can always apologize afterwards if you feel like it)
      edit: funfact is that unless its max lvl frigates they wont be able to detect uavs cuz they have a low signature
      But if you're say, Morocco, you get a lot of blue dots near Rabat en route to the Mediterranean. I don't want to start war with everyone! Same goes with being Egypt, Ethiopia and Italy. A lot fleets are moving from A to B and they won't necessary be aware a battle is raging through their route until they're within range.

      Thanks for the UAV tip.
    • Tom_Cruise wrote:

      Thats a security council benefit right? I don't have SC, it feels like cheating in a way.
      I can understand that.

      I justify it as a benefit similar to the ones you can get in World of Tanks.
      There are buffs in it you can buy, but not ones that give the game to you.
      You can be beaten by those who don't have the buff, You still have to work to win, but you can get an edge.

      Besides, I have the Security Council mainly so I can have my own flag. :)
    • ewac123 wrote:

      DOA70 wrote:

      user8394273 wrote:

      So I'm on the verge of my first solo victory in a WW3 map. As NZ, i rushed Australia's capital early game (he can't get troops over to defend because Australia's so big), and having him lose his capital just made him quit. I quietly took over the relatively inactive Pacific basin, then built a massive navy of fully upgraded destroyers and frigates (20 destroyers, 10 frigates), by day 25-30, without a single armor unit or aircraft. By then there was the standard Afro Arab Coalition with Mongolia and 5 players, so I sent a 5-stack to each of them, wrecked their inferiorly researched navies by outranging them, and shut down their ports. Once I had naval supremacy, even though it was 5 on 1 and they had more VP's and economy than me as individuals, I managed to cut off their supply chains to everywhere beyond Africa. I anticipated they would go naval recon so I spammed frigs and that worked like a charm. Having them paralyzed, I struck 3 of their capitals with nuclear ballistic missile subs, and then took the colonies of those remaining because they couldn't fly troops to defend them.

      They massively outmuscled me economically, but they were dead in the water after I had secured naval supremacy. This leads me to wonder, is there any way on WW3 to win after utterly losing total control of the waters? [note naval recon spam (if it manages to overcome the frig spam) can be in theory entirely eliminated by aircraft carriers and superiority aircraft, if I'm going to go full naval doctrine]
      The frigate / destroyer stack is the hardest to counter as it requires a lot of high level ASW heli's to deal with. Or at least enough helicopters to damage the frigates so that the naval patrol aircraft can do their thing. Either way, it's tough. The key is other nations have to keep an eye on the map and the newspaper to check and see if a nation has built up a big navy. Because you are right, once you've got that stranglehold, it is very tough to break. And so the answer is, don't let it happen.
      umm no...DoD and teburu aren't elite alliance match champions(they are great at public games though) (to my knowledge, pretty much no one is a alliance match champ on the forum other than opulon)
      There's something called a "cruiser"(it tends to do 2.5x damage than a frigate), also something called a "aip sub" which beats a destroyer if you try to use ships offensively in shallow waters
      Knowing you, you have not unlocked the aip sub and may never will...(it's no longer available)
      Also FYI without aip sub cruiser is virtually unbeatable... other than naval recon(which doesn't work well, cruiser has anti air and has 5x the HP)
      Theres also something called shore based artillery which kinda screws you if he built a combat outpost in the mountains..Also mobile launched bms
      While all this sounds expensive, considering your small economy versus theirs it's entirely possible

      Btw: how many of those silly noobs were under rank 20?
      Mentioning the elven king but not the dwarf lord, so mean ;(


      How to beat Frigs and Dessis:
      A) choppers
      B) cruiser


      As Teburu out, with enough of patience you can wither down every fleet with choppers, even more if you have those fancy elite attack choppers.
      The main weakness of ships is, they heal like shit.
      Artillery is unlikely to do much, if the ship player is not a complete fool and 'stands and shoots'. Smart players will 'fire and retreat', also known as 'ticking'.
      If the ship player lacks frigs, you might even try to mix in some NPAs for a bigger boom or as some people mentioned CMs might also help.
      Use AWACs to scout positions of the fleet and stealth drones to figure out exact composition.


      P. S.: Elite units return every few seasons, you should know that by now. So Elite AIP will surely return some time.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Kalrakh ().

    • Hydralysk wrote:

      Tom_Cruise wrote:

      Thats a security council benefit right? I don't have SC, it feels like cheating in a way.
      I can understand that.
      I justify it as a benefit similar to the ones you can get in World of Tanks.
      There are buffs in it you can buy, but not ones that give the game to you.
      You can be beaten by those who don't have the buff, You still have to work to win, but you can get an edge.

      Besides, I have the Security Council mainly so I can have my own flag. :)
      SC does not give real advantage, it does not give you more resources or faster production.
      SC gives a player convenience, like waypoints and buildings queue, which you can easily make up by being more active. After all SC is for those who just can't play 24/7 like other people. :)
      Aggressive stance is a nice tool to raid AI while being afk, but can easily screw you up if used improperly.
      Not to mention the bug that lasted quite a while in old times, where your towed would autojump into enemies if you let them air assault while being in aggressive stance. :D

      The only 'cheaty' thing might be getting those Elite units unlocked, but also depends on the unit there. :)
    • Im big into Navy too Combined with air supremacy thats why also start in asia/pacific. But Navy only usually wont win (useless in big areas of Map). To me Navy is the most like real war as most barely understand land tactics and very few understand air tactics; Navy allows a lot of strategy as have power of airforce with flexibility to move units, combine attack a bigger stack with two smaller stacks hitting and moving. (strike on edge of range... hard reverse and by time return volley like in 1 min lag back out of range. So If we battled Id track you down and wait till you had stack unmanned (Navy requires active control to be effective) and pick you little be little. I dont get bogged down in collision stacks when all possible.

      Alternative would be to have multiple Airstacks on range of your AA ... send in a beat up plane as a sacrifice to trigger AA then slam you with multiple CMs before they can trigger again in 10 min.

      I usually go big frigs (compliment my airforce as if oppossing airforce better air supp will bait them into a AA Ambush near coast as advanced frigs throw up a wall of lead) and if a navy man you need Naval officer.

      But every weapon has a counter. One dude took a good stack off mine with big stacks of naval helicpters (think they come in under radar). But once I learned that lessons I made sure next time approached I had a 5 stack of air supp escorting my ship stack and jumped his choppers.
      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp
    • Teburu wrote:

      >complains about reading comprehension
      >has none himself
      to sum the thread up for you:
      user: „is there any way to fight navy if you have superior economy?(in a way that doesn’t involve navy?)
      Teburu: in theory just play the long game (helis/missiles) cuz economy advantage, or simply conquer the rest of vp needed if thats an option but it’s not really realistic to expect to win against a dude with dedicated navy without navy of your own
      DoD>user: You only have been fighting noobs; your strat wouldn’t work against me
      Doa>user:frigates/destroyers are hard to counter; you’re right to assume that the given scenario is pretty fucked
      [OT back and forth between user and DoD]
      ewac: cruiser beats frigs and destroyers and subs beat cruisers
      Teburu: correcting a technicality/ adding that cruisers stomp other navy so hard cuz early range
      [slight argument between Teburu and ewac]
      Dracula: (fleet) size doesn’t matter, technique (hit and run) does
      cipher>user: frigate destroyer combo has weaknesses x,y and z; they could also just use bombers on your homeland
      juggernaut: just build subs lol or use missiles
      Teburu>juggernaut: missing the point + frigates go brrt
      oscar>ewac: reply to ewac about carriers
      doa: necroing the thread just to offend ppl with your lack of reading comprehension

      what you are referring to was pretty much a completely different convo and if you had actually read the whole thread then you would have seen that literally the first reply to this thread is my answer to the question asked
      like yikes dude; i even told juggernaut guy that expecting to get a naval base up and running while at war with someone that holds naval superiority is a pretty unrealistic plan
      Then don't quote me if your nonsense has nothing to do with me. What *I* responded to was a direct reply to *my* statements, as the first quote on this page demonstrated. As you, and everyone else, can clearly see, I was correcting a major mistake in both your and ewacs assertions. Your nonsense above is nothing but deflection and bullshit.

      And if you don't like me, a guy named DOA, necroing something, move the hell on and ignore it. Or continue to whine and complain like a big baby for that matter. Makes no real difference to me. You spend your time how you want. I will continue to call you out when you take what I say and make it into something its not, which you have gotten into quite the habit of doing in this thread. I get it - you know a lot about this game. But what you don't know is when to admit to making a mistake.