Countering Naval Supremacy on WW3

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    • Countering Naval Supremacy on WW3

      So I'm on the verge of my first solo victory in a WW3 map. As NZ, i rushed Australia's capital early game (he can't get troops over to defend because Australia's so big), and having him lose his capital just made him quit. I quietly took over the relatively inactive Pacific basin, then built a massive navy of fully upgraded destroyers and frigates (20 destroyers, 10 frigates), by day 25-30, without a single armor unit or aircraft. By then there was the standard Afro Arab Coalition with Mongolia and 5 players, so I sent a 5-stack to each of them, wrecked their inferiorly researched navies by outranging them, and shut down their ports. Once I had naval supremacy, even though it was 5 on 1 and they had more VP's and economy than me as individuals, I managed to cut off their supply chains to everywhere beyond Africa. I anticipated they would go naval recon so I spammed frigs and that worked like a charm. Having them paralyzed, I struck 3 of their capitals with nuclear ballistic missile subs, and then took the colonies of those remaining because they couldn't fly troops to defend them.

      They massively outmuscled me economically, but they were dead in the water after I had secured naval supremacy. This leads me to wonder, is there any way on WW3 to win after utterly losing total control of the waters? [note naval recon spam (if it manages to overcome the frig spam) can be in theory entirely eliminated by aircraft carriers and superiority aircraft, if I'm going to go full naval doctrine]
    • If you have such a massive economy advantage over the guy with the ships probably the most simple solution would be to simply play the long game and use mixed heli stacks to slowly whittle down ship stacks, maybe in the meantime use superior economy to get into missile research and bomb the navy guys homeland
      If youre in europe/asia you can just conquer the rest of the landmass you're on, europe+asia should be enough VP for a solo victory

      so in theory its pretty possible to break that hold; in realitly this fails to take into consideration that while you take your time to research stuff to counter the other guys navy, the navy guy also gets this time to research stuff
      I am the basline for opinions
    • user8394273 wrote:

      So I'm on the verge of my first solo victory in a WW3 map. As NZ, i rushed Australia's capital early game (he can't get troops over to defend because Australia's so big), and having him lose his capital just made him quit. I quietly took over the relatively inactive Pacific basin, then built a massive navy of fully upgraded destroyers and frigates (20 destroyers, 10 frigates), by day 25-30, without a single armor unit or aircraft. By then there was the standard Afro Arab Coalition with Mongolia and 5 players, so I sent a 5-stack to each of them, wrecked their inferiorly researched navies by outranging them, and shut down their ports. Once I had naval supremacy, even though it was 5 on 1 and they had more VP's and economy than me as individuals, I managed to cut off their supply chains to everywhere beyond Africa. I anticipated they would go naval recon so I spammed frigs and that worked like a charm. Having them paralyzed, I struck 3 of their capitals with nuclear ballistic missile subs, and then took the colonies of those remaining because they couldn't fly troops to defend them.

      They massively outmuscled me economically, but they were dead in the water after I had secured naval supremacy. This leads me to wonder, is there any way on WW3 to win after utterly losing total control of the waters? [note naval recon spam (if it manages to overcome the frig spam) can be in theory entirely eliminated by aircraft carriers and superiority aircraft, if I'm going to go full naval doctrine]
      Beware patting yourself on the back too vigorously for beating stupid/ignorant players. Your above scenario would have never played out that way with me in the game, since I am a Big Navy player as well.
      *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***

      The "Get off my lawn!" cranky CoN Forums Poster - not affiliated with Dorado in any way


      "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD
    • user8394273 wrote:

      So I'm on the verge of my first solo victory in a WW3 map. As NZ, i rushed Australia's capital early game (he can't get troops over to defend because Australia's so big), and having him lose his capital just made him quit. I quietly took over the relatively inactive Pacific basin, then built a massive navy of fully upgraded destroyers and frigates (20 destroyers, 10 frigates), by day 25-30, without a single armor unit or aircraft. By then there was the standard Afro Arab Coalition with Mongolia and 5 players, so I sent a 5-stack to each of them, wrecked their inferiorly researched navies by outranging them, and shut down their ports. Once I had naval supremacy, even though it was 5 on 1 and they had more VP's and economy than me as individuals, I managed to cut off their supply chains to everywhere beyond Africa. I anticipated they would go naval recon so I spammed frigs and that worked like a charm. Having them paralyzed, I struck 3 of their capitals with nuclear ballistic missile subs, and then took the colonies of those remaining because they couldn't fly troops to defend them.

      They massively outmuscled me economically, but they were dead in the water after I had secured naval supremacy. This leads me to wonder, is there any way on WW3 to win after utterly losing total control of the waters? [note naval recon spam (if it manages to overcome the frig spam) can be in theory entirely eliminated by aircraft carriers and superiority aircraft, if I'm going to go full naval doctrine]
      The frigate / destroyer stack is the hardest to counter as it requires a lot of high level ASW heli's to deal with. Or at least enough helicopters to damage the frigates so that the naval patrol aircraft can do their thing. Either way, it's tough. The key is other nations have to keep an eye on the map and the newspaper to check and see if a nation has built up a big navy. Because you are right, once you've got that stranglehold, it is very tough to break. And so the answer is, don't let it happen.
    • Dealer of Death wrote:

      user8394273 wrote:

      So I'm on the verge of my first solo victory in a WW3 map. As NZ, i rushed Australia's capital early game (he can't get troops over to defend because Australia's so big), and having him lose his capital just made him quit. I quietly took over the relatively inactive Pacific basin, then built a massive navy of fully upgraded destroyers and frigates (20 destroyers, 10 frigates), by day 25-30, without a single armor unit or aircraft. By then there was the standard Afro Arab Coalition with Mongolia and 5 players, so I sent a 5-stack to each of them, wrecked their inferiorly researched navies by outranging them, and shut down their ports. Once I had naval supremacy, even though it was 5 on 1 and they had more VP's and economy than me as individuals, I managed to cut off their supply chains to everywhere beyond Africa. I anticipated they would go naval recon so I spammed frigs and that worked like a charm. Having them paralyzed, I struck 3 of their capitals with nuclear ballistic missile subs, and then took the colonies of those remaining because they couldn't fly troops to defend them.

      They massively outmuscled me economically, but they were dead in the water after I had secured naval supremacy. This leads me to wonder, is there any way on WW3 to win after utterly losing total control of the waters? [note naval recon spam (if it manages to overcome the frig spam) can be in theory entirely eliminated by aircraft carriers and superiority aircraft, if I'm going to go full naval doctrine]
      Beware patting yourself on the back too vigorously for beating stupid/ignorant players. Your above scenario would have never played out that way with me in the game, since I am a Big Navy player as well.
      I know that you feel that I'm an intermediate player getting overexcited for beating noobs, and you, whom I suppose is a pro, get irked at seeing people be proud of accomplishments you have long regarded as trivial, but my question is whether this can be countered, and not whether it can be stopped.
    • user8394273 wrote:

      I know that you feel that I'm an intermediate player getting overexcited for beating noobs, and you, whom I suppose is a pro, get irked at seeing people be proud of accomplishments you have long regarded as trivial, but my question is whether this can be countered, and not whether it can be stopped.
      You have me all wrong. I'm not a pro, Teburu is a pro, Opulon is a pro, I'm just on the good side of the middle with a decent store of game mechanics knowledge. It wasn't meant to slap you down, but more a friendly Han Solo-esque "Don't get cocky kid" and though I didn't detail it out, I was pointing out by using my own proclivities, that if someone else were doing Navy in a big way, that would throw a big counter into what you detailed.
      *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***

      The "Get off my lawn!" cranky CoN Forums Poster - not affiliated with Dorado in any way


      "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD
    • DOA70 wrote:

      user8394273 wrote:

      So I'm on the verge of my first solo victory in a WW3 map. As NZ, i rushed Australia's capital early game (he can't get troops over to defend because Australia's so big), and having him lose his capital just made him quit. I quietly took over the relatively inactive Pacific basin, then built a massive navy of fully upgraded destroyers and frigates (20 destroyers, 10 frigates), by day 25-30, without a single armor unit or aircraft. By then there was the standard Afro Arab Coalition with Mongolia and 5 players, so I sent a 5-stack to each of them, wrecked their inferiorly researched navies by outranging them, and shut down their ports. Once I had naval supremacy, even though it was 5 on 1 and they had more VP's and economy than me as individuals, I managed to cut off their supply chains to everywhere beyond Africa. I anticipated they would go naval recon so I spammed frigs and that worked like a charm. Having them paralyzed, I struck 3 of their capitals with nuclear ballistic missile subs, and then took the colonies of those remaining because they couldn't fly troops to defend them.

      They massively outmuscled me economically, but they were dead in the water after I had secured naval supremacy. This leads me to wonder, is there any way on WW3 to win after utterly losing total control of the waters? [note naval recon spam (if it manages to overcome the frig spam) can be in theory entirely eliminated by aircraft carriers and superiority aircraft, if I'm going to go full naval doctrine]
      The frigate / destroyer stack is the hardest to counter as it requires a lot of high level ASW heli's to deal with. Or at least enough helicopters to damage the frigates so that the naval patrol aircraft can do their thing. Either way, it's tough. The key is other nations have to keep an eye on the map and the newspaper to check and see if a nation has built up a big navy. Because you are right, once you've got that stranglehold, it is very tough to break. And so the answer is, don't let it happen.
      umm no...
      DoD and teburu aren't elite alliance match champions(they are great at public games though) (to my knowledge, pretty much no one is a alliance match champ on the forum other than opulon)
      There's something called a "cruiser"(it tends to do 2.5x damage than a frigate), also something called a "aip sub" which beats a destroyer if you try to use ships offensively in shallow waters
      Knowing you, you have not unlocked the aip sub and may never will...(it's no longer available)
      Also FYI without aip sub cruiser is virtually unbeatable... other than naval recon(which doesn't work well, cruiser has anti air and has 5x the HP)
      Theres also something called shore based artillery which kinda screws you if he built a combat outpost in the mountains..Also mobile launched bms
      While all this sounds expensive, considering your small economy versus theirs it's entirely possible

      Btw: how many of those silly noobs were under rank 20?
      "Le patriotisme, c'est aimer son pays. Le nationalisme, c'est détester celui des autres."-Charles De Gaulle, Leader of Free France in World War 2.
      English: "Patriotism is to love your country. Nationalism is hating that of others."
    • ewac123 wrote:

      DOA70 wrote:

      user8394273 wrote:

      So I'm on the verge of my first solo victory in a WW3 map. As NZ, i rushed Australia's capital early game (he can't get troops over to defend because Australia's so big), and having him lose his capital just made him quit. I quietly took over the relatively inactive Pacific basin, then built a massive navy of fully upgraded destroyers and frigates (20 destroyers, 10 frigates), by day 25-30, without a single armor unit or aircraft. By then there was the standard Afro Arab Coalition with Mongolia and 5 players, so I sent a 5-stack to each of them, wrecked their inferiorly researched navies by outranging them, and shut down their ports. Once I had naval supremacy, even though it was 5 on 1 and they had more VP's and economy than me as individuals, I managed to cut off their supply chains to everywhere beyond Africa. I anticipated they would go naval recon so I spammed frigs and that worked like a charm. Having them paralyzed, I struck 3 of their capitals with nuclear ballistic missile subs, and then took the colonies of those remaining because they couldn't fly troops to defend them.

      They massively outmuscled me economically, but they were dead in the water after I had secured naval supremacy. This leads me to wonder, is there any way on WW3 to win after utterly losing total control of the waters? [note naval recon spam (if it manages to overcome the frig spam) can be in theory entirely eliminated by aircraft carriers and superiority aircraft, if I'm going to go full naval doctrine]
      The frigate / destroyer stack is the hardest to counter as it requires a lot of high level ASW heli's to deal with. Or at least enough helicopters to damage the frigates so that the naval patrol aircraft can do their thing. Either way, it's tough. The key is other nations have to keep an eye on the map and the newspaper to check and see if a nation has built up a big navy. Because you are right, once you've got that stranglehold, it is very tough to break. And so the answer is, don't let it happen.
      umm no...DoD and teburu aren't elite alliance match champions(they are great at public games though) (to my knowledge, pretty much no one is a alliance match champ on the forum other than opulon)
      There's something called a "cruiser"(it tends to do 2.5x damage than a frigate), also something called a "aip sub" which beats a destroyer if you try to use ships offensively in shallow waters
      Knowing you, you have not unlocked the aip sub and may never will...(it's no longer available)
      Also FYI without aip sub cruiser is virtually unbeatable... other than naval recon(which doesn't work well, cruiser has anti air and has 5x the HP)
      Theres also something called shore based artillery which kinda screws you if he built a combat outpost in the mountains..Also mobile launched bms
      While all this sounds expensive, considering your small economy versus theirs it's entirely possible

      Btw: how many of those silly noobs were under rank 20?
      >unbeatable except that it can be beaten by units x,y and z
      lmao

      and the thing making the cruiser great for navy isnt primarily the dmg output; but the speed and range advantage it gets over other units
      I am the basline for opinions
    • Teburu wrote:

      ewac123 wrote:

      DOA70 wrote:

      user8394273 wrote:

      So I'm on the verge of my first solo victory in a WW3 map. As NZ, i rushed Australia's capital early game (he can't get troops over to defend because Australia's so big), and having him lose his capital just made him quit. I quietly took over the relatively inactive Pacific basin, then built a massive navy of fully upgraded destroyers and frigates (20 destroyers, 10 frigates), by day 25-30, without a single armor unit or aircraft. By then there was the standard Afro Arab Coalition with Mongolia and 5 players, so I sent a 5-stack to each of them, wrecked their inferiorly researched navies by outranging them, and shut down their ports. Once I had naval supremacy, even though it was 5 on 1 and they had more VP's and economy than me as individuals, I managed to cut off their supply chains to everywhere beyond Africa. I anticipated they would go naval recon so I spammed frigs and that worked like a charm. Having them paralyzed, I struck 3 of their capitals with nuclear ballistic missile subs, and then took the colonies of those remaining because they couldn't fly troops to defend them.

      They massively outmuscled me economically, but they were dead in the water after I had secured naval supremacy. This leads me to wonder, is there any way on WW3 to win after utterly losing total control of the waters? [note naval recon spam (if it manages to overcome the frig spam) can be in theory entirely eliminated by aircraft carriers and superiority aircraft, if I'm going to go full naval doctrine]
      The frigate / destroyer stack is the hardest to counter as it requires a lot of high level ASW heli's to deal with. Or at least enough helicopters to damage the frigates so that the naval patrol aircraft can do their thing. Either way, it's tough. The key is other nations have to keep an eye on the map and the newspaper to check and see if a nation has built up a big navy. Because you are right, once you've got that stranglehold, it is very tough to break. And so the answer is, don't let it happen.
      umm no...DoD and teburu aren't elite alliance match champions(they are great at public games though) (to my knowledge, pretty much no one is a alliance match champ on the forum other than opulon)There's something called a "cruiser"(it tends to do 2.5x damage than a frigate), also something called a "aip sub" which beats a destroyer if you try to use ships offensively in shallow waters
      Knowing you, you have not unlocked the aip sub and may never will...(it's no longer available)
      Also FYI without aip sub cruiser is virtually unbeatable... other than naval recon(which doesn't work well, cruiser has anti air and has 5x the HP)
      Theres also something called shore based artillery which kinda screws you if he built a combat outpost in the mountains..Also mobile launched bms
      While all this sounds expensive, considering your small economy versus theirs it's entirely possible

      Btw: how many of those silly noobs were under rank 20?
      >unbeatable except that it can be beaten by units x,y and zlmao

      and the thing making the cruiser great for navy isnt primarily the dmg output; but the speed and range advantage it gets over other units
      3/5 were under rank 20 lol, and I was rank 16 myself. I know a cruiser stack smashes a frig destroyer stack, but the idea is not that the destroyer-frigate stack is OP, it's that once opponents lose control of the seas they can't make cruisers because I made sure not to let them build port cities. But yeah, shore artillery, I hadn't thought of that. Thanks
    • those noobs are really, really, really, really, really dump
      i can beat your stack of 20 frigs/destroyer if you put frig and destroyer in 1 stack if:
      I have a single max cruiser with NPA

      cruiser kills frig using hit and run
      (cause frigs suck and are slow)
      then npa kills Destroyer


      @Teburu your range advantage is early game only, late game, as the userxxxx--- said, he maxed his frig and DD, so it's same
      "Le patriotisme, c'est aimer son pays. Le nationalisme, c'est détester celui des autres."-Charles De Gaulle, Leader of Free France in World War 2.
      English: "Patriotism is to love your country. Nationalism is hating that of others."
    • ewac123 wrote:

      those noobs are really, really, really, really, really dump
      i can beat your stack of 20 frigs/destroyer if you put frig and destroyer in 1 stack if:
      I have a single max cruiser with NPA

      cruiser kills frig using hit and run
      (cause frigs suck and are slow)
      then npa kills Destroyer


      @Teburu your range advantage is early game only, late game, as the userxxxx--- said, he maxed his frig and DD, so it's same
      thats still about 20 days of outranging the other guy
      I am the basline for opinions
    • Teburu wrote:

      ewac123 wrote:

      those noobs are really, really, really, really, really dump
      i can beat your stack of 20 frigs/destroyer if you put frig and destroyer in 1 stack if:
      I have a single max cruiser with NPA

      cruiser kills frig using hit and run
      (cause frigs suck and are slow)
      then npa kills Destroyer


      @Teburu your range advantage is early game only, late game, as the userxxxx--- said, he maxed his frig and DD, so it's same
      thats still about 20 days of outranging the other guy
      Good point, though he was talking about LATE GAME
      but i know what you mean
      "Le patriotisme, c'est aimer son pays. Le nationalisme, c'est détester celui des autres."-Charles De Gaulle, Leader of Free France in World War 2.
      English: "Patriotism is to love your country. Nationalism is hating that of others."
    • ewac123 wrote:

      Teburu wrote:

      ewac123 wrote:

      those noobs are really, really, really, really, really dump
      i can beat your stack of 20 frigs/destroyer if you put frig and destroyer in 1 stack if:
      I have a single max cruiser with NPA

      cruiser kills frig using hit and run
      (cause frigs suck and are slow)
      then npa kills Destroyer


      @Teburu your range advantage is early game only, late game, as the userxxxx--- said, he maxed his frig and DD, so it's same
      thats still about 20 days of outranging the other guy
      Good point, though he was talking about LATE GAMEbut i know what you mean
      tru tho only trying to contest some dude with naval superiority lategame is kinda... late
      cuz the die is already cast
      I am the basline for opinions
    • Teburu wrote:

      ewac123 wrote:

      Teburu wrote:

      ewac123 wrote:

      those noobs are really, really, really, really, really dump
      i can beat your stack of 20 frigs/destroyer if you put frig and destroyer in 1 stack if:
      I have a single max cruiser with NPA

      cruiser kills frig using hit and run
      (cause frigs suck and are slow)
      then npa kills Destroyer


      @Teburu your range advantage is early game only, late game, as the userxxxx--- said, he maxed his frig and DD, so it's same
      thats still about 20 days of outranging the other guy
      Good point, though he was talking about LATE GAMEbut i know what you mean
      tru tho only trying to contest some dude with naval superiority lategame is kinda... late cuz the die is already cast
      yeah
      Tho I think I could counter user xxxxs idea with a level 3 cruiser and npa
      "Le patriotisme, c'est aimer son pays. Le nationalisme, c'est détester celui des autres."-Charles De Gaulle, Leader of Free France in World War 2.
      English: "Patriotism is to love your country. Nationalism is hating that of others."
    • user8394273 wrote:

      So I'm on the verge of my first solo victory in a WW3 map. As NZ, i rushed Australia's capital early game (he can't get troops over to defend because Australia's so big), and having him lose his capital just made him quit. I quietly took over the relatively inactive Pacific basin, then built a massive navy of fully upgraded destroyers and frigates (20 destroyers, 10 frigates), by day 25-30, without a single armor unit or aircraft. By then there was the standard Afro Arab Coalition with Mongolia and 5 players, so I sent a 5-stack to each of them, wrecked their inferiorly researched navies by outranging them, and shut down their ports. Once I had naval supremacy, even though it was 5 on 1 and they had more VP's and economy than me as individuals, I managed to cut off their supply chains to everywhere beyond Africa. I anticipated they would go naval recon so I spammed frigs and that worked like a charm. Having them paralyzed, I struck 3 of their capitals with nuclear ballistic missile subs, and then took the colonies of those remaining because they couldn't fly troops to defend them.

      They massively outmuscled me economically, but they were dead in the water after I had secured naval supremacy. This leads me to wonder, is there any way on WW3 to win after utterly losing total control of the waters? [note naval recon spam (if it manages to overcome the frig spam) can be in theory entirely eliminated by aircraft carriers and superiority aircraft, if I'm going to go full naval doctrine]
      I have also played as Island a lot in past and won many games. My ideal stack was curiser + destroyers and missile sub before they launched elite bombers. Your entire fleet can be wiped out by using 1 level 3 cruiser with hit and run tactics.
      These tactics can also be used via land i.e they put some inf in coastal city so your navy engage them and while it is reloading they use level 4 rocket launcher to hit your navy and run back. TDD is must to protect against missiles.
    • user8394273 wrote:

      So I'm on the verge of my first solo victory in a WW3 map. As NZ, i rushed Australia's capital early game (he can't get troops over to defend because Australia's so big), and having him lose his capital just made him quit. I quietly took over the relatively inactive Pacific basin, then built a massive navy of fully upgraded destroyers and frigates (20 destroyers, 10 frigates), by day 25-30, without a single armor unit or aircraft. By then there was the standard Afro Arab Coalition with Mongolia and 5 players, so I sent a 5-stack to each of them, wrecked their inferiorly researched navies by outranging them, and shut down their ports. Once I had naval supremacy, even though it was 5 on 1 and they had more VP's and economy than me as individuals, I managed to cut off their supply chains to everywhere beyond Africa. I anticipated they would go naval recon so I spammed frigs and that worked like a charm. Having them paralyzed, I struck 3 of their capitals with nuclear ballistic missile subs, and then took the colonies of those remaining because they couldn't fly troops to defend them.

      They massively outmuscled me economically, but they were dead in the water after I had secured naval supremacy. This leads me to wonder, is there any way on WW3 to win after utterly losing total control of the waters? [note naval recon spam (if it manages to overcome the frig spam) can be in theory entirely eliminated by aircraft carriers and superiority aircraft, if I'm going to go full naval doctrine]


      Congratulations on your impending victory! Though I must say it seems like your opponents were not very good if you managed to 1 v 5 them and they had an economic advantage. Even with naval advantage they could have retreated away from the coast and your ground army was poor so it seems like their combined air and ground army would be a lot stronger. Once away from your coast your army has little projection power since you said you had no armor or air units. Also your opponents should have definitely have been able to intercept your nuclear launches as when researching the chemical warhead there's a newspaper alert and they should have built Theatre Defense Systems.


      In terms of stopping your naval supremacy, seeing as you have the standard Destroyer and Frigate combo, they could have worn down your navy with ASW Helicopters, High to Max level Cruise missiles, and also hit and run strikes with Cruisers as well as Submarines since they are very lethal to your stack combination. I don't know what forces your enemy had but they could have also tried to build high level bombers/stealth bombers fly them to your main centers of production then just bomb them to dust and slow you down that way. Overall your opponents made many mistakes which allowed you to secure the victory over them.
    • I can think of several ways. first off: Submarines. idk if this works in the game, but IRL the first subs were built for things like this. during the british blockade in either the American Revolution or the War of 1812, a little one man Peddle powered submarine destroyed boats in the blockade. Subs make great blockade runners.
      Second: MISSILES! Cruise missiles can indipendantly target Unit stacks, so if you have a way of launching cruise missiles over the water (Examples: a Cruise missile battery on the coast, or aerial launch platforms,) you can deploy the missiles and blow their ships out of the water, given enough time.
    • Juggernaut505 wrote:

      I can think of several ways. first off: Submarines. idk if this works in the game, but IRL the first subs were built for things like this. during the british blockade in either the American Revolution or the War of 1812, a little one man Peddle powered submarine destroyed boats in the blockade. Subs make great blockade runners.
      Second: MISSILES! Cruise missiles can indipendantly target Unit stacks, so if you have a way of launching cruise missiles over the water (Examples: a Cruise missile battery on the coast, or aerial launch platforms,) you can deploy the missiles and blow their ships out of the water, given enough time.
      you have to actually build all of these first tho and he'd have to be a complete retard to let you even finish the required buildings
      and missiles? really? against frigates? pointdefense goes brrt
      I am the basline for opinions