Death by Artillery

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    • Death by Artillery

      Hi all - So I'm at war with someone (WW3 map) who is sending big stacks of max level rocket launchers and sams at me, so I can't send planes or missiles to counter. Helo's sent in get taken down by his planes. Battle is inland so navy can't help. If i try a ground rush, he retreats and demolishes me from range. I'm thinking that if i had max level artillery it could counter? But then with equal artillery range to his, we'd just wipe each other out?? Kinda struggling with how to combat this composition. Don't think I will survive this map, but would be useful to have some tips for next time if anyone can advise?
    • I don't know enough about MLRS & SAMS, my public games have finished before they made non-trivial appearances, so the experts here should be more help than I will be, but while we're waiting for them to post something, I'll make a few educated guesses.

      Be more persistent at being online than they are. One of of you has to go AFK first. Make it be them.

      Send in a sacrificial unit to attract any automatic fire from his units, then follow up with your deadliest ground units during the time (an hour?) between his attacks. And/or do something similar with planes or missiles to get past his planes and SAMS.

      The MBT is scorned for many reasons, but... it has a lot of HP. Maybe using a few at your front lines to soak up damage will allow other ground units to get to where they need to be. Just remember that they have zero built-in air-defense abilities.

      Stating the obvious, you need your own anti-air to chase his planes away.

      Do an end-run. Attack him somewhere else. Send enough troops to raise hell if they can get behind his lines. They don't have to conquer him, just scattering and running around (maybe use "Rush" speed) capturing provinces will have a good chance of taking the heat off of your main line of defense.

      If you get some units behind his borders, don't attack his defended cities; just threaten to. The units' jobs are staying alive, not killing him. Also, if you get behind his lines, maybe build an air base in some godforsaken swamp that will be the last place he wants to retake, and then use it. Catch him AFK and use air-assault with a few ground units away from his air defenses?

      Again, stating the obvious - Air units can be given an initial destination that takes them around/past his defenses, and can then be redirected mid-flight to turn an airbase that is on one of his sides or is behind him.

      If you can, build an airfield someplace that will allow your planes to attack and return to base without running through his air defenses. Use that to add to the behind-the-lines confusion and force him to thin out his anti-air defenses near the current battle. You don't have to throw your planes into a meatgrinder, you just need to do a "WW2 Dolittle raid or two on the Japanese home islands".

      Make a friend - Finding an ally (Right of Way or Coalition) (anyone willing to make feinting attacks, or full-on attacks), even if you have to pledge to support them in a solo win, is better than getting killed now. You can even consider allying with your attacker - Just don't grovel.

      If you can deploy max level weapons with RANGE and firepower matching his, and create a stalemate, that will buy you time.

      Definitely look through the forum. In the time that I've paid attention to it, there have been several discussions of this general topic. The forum Search function is your new best friend right now.

      In the future, the in-game CoN News can be your new best friend - If you weren't his first opponent (and it doesn't sound like you were, I'll bet there were News articles awhile ago that named this guy's weapons.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by KFGauss ().

    • Something you could try is special forces. They can close up to his stack without him seeing. You don't need enough of them of them to win the melee battle outright - only enough to stop it from moving for long enough so that your other ground units can catch up and join in.

      Another thing is to consider terrain and fortifications. Back off until he has to engage you with his MRLs in a forest or jungle, reducing his damage output. With your own units in a Combat Outpost, it'll reduce incoming damage still further. That way, you can win a like-for-like bombardment exchange.

      You might also be able to take his air support out of the equation by attacking his airbases with missiles or heavy bombers (or ships, or air-assault units or whatever you can get to them with!). Then you can get your helicopters in.
    • xovault wrote:

      Hi all - So I'm at war with someone (WW3 map) who is sending big stacks of max level rocket launchers and sams at me, so I can't send planes or missiles to counter. Helo's sent in get taken down by his planes. Battle is inland so navy can't help. If i try a ground rush, he retreats and demolishes me from range. I'm thinking that if i had max level artillery it could counter? But then with equal artillery range to his, we'd just wipe each other out?? Kinda struggling with how to combat this composition. Don't think I will survive this map, but would be useful to have some tips for next time if anyone can advise?

      Welcome to Metaplaylia gentlemen. I will not lie, the chances of your survival are small.

      About how to beat frontally such a "triangle", the answer is "you can't really".

      It's an army bred for a single purpose : defeat the armies of close and air combat.

      (Two references in the same post, i get more and more useless as a teacher :D )


      Joke apart, don't try to beat him frontally, you will mostly lose. Strike Fighters + MBTs in this composition is like using light cavalry to charge head on a macedonian phalanx. You could use artillery of the same range indeed, if you are willing to learn "fencing" and how to hit&run. It could work.

      But depending on your respective economical/industrial strength, i would suggest to study the doors proposed by Kfgauss and Walterchang : be creative and try to hit at his vital organs instead of his plate armor. Special Forces are recognised as one of the few soft counters to MRLs, as long as you manage to hit a dead angle


      If he has a larger economical base, a larger industrial base, a larger army, which is composed of well-thought/balanced stacks, well... time to call GG and ask politely to the guy how you could improve. Good players usually can be gracious with brave players as long as they are not insulting kiddos.
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • Tom_Cruise wrote:

      Teburu wrote:

      in artillery vs artillery the more active one wins tho
      The more active user or artillery unit?
      Its like navy; you Need to be active user. Cant make art unit more active. Most arty players used to fire and forget unit outside a city.

      1. Come into range. Fire than back up out of range. Wait an hr .. rinse and repeat. (same principle as hitting a big navy stack with out getting hit back)
      2. Outflank them and attack from two directions. arty only going to hit 1 direction.
      3. This scenario Id have my strike fighters out of range of AA. fire in a CM to trigger the AA then slam the stack with full strike and/or mix of CMs or both in the 10 min AA down. If attack via ground get huge stack outside Arty range. send in 1 beat up unit as sacrifice. Arty triggers than they are dead in water for an hr. Bum rush the stack.
      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp
    • Opulon wrote:

      xovault wrote:

      Hi all - So I'm at war with someone (WW3 map) who is sending big stacks of max level rocket launchers and sams at me, so I can't send planes or missiles to counter. Helo's sent in get taken down by his planes. Battle is inland so navy can't help. If i try a ground rush, he retreats and demolishes me from range. I'm thinking that if i had max level artillery it could counter? But then with equal artillery range to his, we'd just wipe each other out?? Kinda struggling with how to combat this composition. Don't think I will survive this map, but would be useful to have some tips for next time if anyone can advise?
      Welcome to Metaplaylia gentlemen. I will not lie, the chances of your survival are small.

      About how to beat frontally such a "triangle", the answer is "you can't really".

      It's an army bred for a single purpose : defeat the armies of close and air combat.

      (Two references in the same post, i get more and more useless as a teacher :D )


      Joke apart, don't try to beat him frontally, you will mostly lose. Strike Fighters + MBTs in this composition is like using light cavalry to charge head on a macedonian phalanx. You could use artillery of the same range indeed, if you are willing to learn "fencing" and how to hit&run. It could work.

      But depending on your respective economical/industrial strength, i would suggest to study the doors proposed by Kfgauss and Walterchang : be creative and try to hit at his vital organs instead of his plate armor. Special Forces are recognised as one of the few soft counters to MRLs, as long as you manage to hit a dead angle


      If he has a larger economical base, a larger industrial base, a larger army, which is composed of well-thought/balanced stacks, well... time to call GG and ask politely to the guy how you could improve. Good players usually can be gracious with brave players as long as they are not insulting kiddos.


      Hit & run seems a straightforward concept I believe but what is fencing? How does that work? Had a look at your website & oh my do I wish that was in the wiki. I think I can identify from there, what the opponent was using to be what you call the meta triangle on your site. I have a lot to read now - thanks.
    • xovault wrote:

      Opulon wrote:

      xovault wrote:

      Hi all - So I'm at war with someone (WW3 map) who is sending big stacks of max level rocket launchers and sams at me, so I can't send planes or missiles to counter. Helo's sent in get taken down by his planes. Battle is inland so navy can't help. If i try a ground rush, he retreats and demolishes me from range. I'm thinking that if i had max level artillery it could counter? But then with equal artillery range to his, we'd just wipe each other out?? Kinda struggling with how to combat this composition. Don't think I will survive this map, but would be useful to have some tips for next time if anyone can advise?
      Welcome to Metaplaylia gentlemen. I will not lie, the chances of your survival are small.
      About how to beat frontally such a "triangle", the answer is "you can't really".

      It's an army bred for a single purpose : defeat the armies of close and air combat.

      (Two references in the same post, i get more and more useless as a teacher :D )


      Joke apart, don't try to beat him frontally, you will mostly lose. Strike Fighters + MBTs in this composition is like using light cavalry to charge head on a macedonian phalanx. You could use artillery of the same range indeed, if you are willing to learn "fencing" and how to hit&run. It could work.

      But depending on your respective economical/industrial strength, i would suggest to study the doors proposed by Kfgauss and Walterchang : be creative and try to hit at his vital organs instead of his plate armor. Special Forces are recognised as one of the few soft counters to MRLs, as long as you manage to hit a dead angle


      If he has a larger economical base, a larger industrial base, a larger army, which is composed of well-thought/balanced stacks, well... time to call GG and ask politely to the guy how you could improve. Good players usually can be gracious with brave players as long as they are not insulting kiddos.
      Hit & run seems a straightforward concept I believe but what is fencing? How does that work? Had a look at your website & oh my do I wish that was in the wiki. I think I can identify from there, what the opponent was using to be what you call the meta triangle on your site. I have a lot to read now - thanks.
      I think he is using term fencing as analogy to hit and run (both attack and hit without getting hit using technique and not brute force).
      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp
    • Another possibility is a ballistic sub since he is stationary. trickier is trying to time him hitting a fixed spot; which ive done before as you dont have to be exact just catch him in blast range. you cant target unit directly but need to catch him stationary at a prov center or time it him hitting center (easiest in mtns as hes moving the slowest which increases margin of error to hit him)

      Ballistic missiles have decent HP, but still time attack and fire in a CM or sacrifice plane to trigger AA a few minites before Ballistic Missile hit.
      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp
    • Buckeyechamp wrote:

      Another possibility is a ballistic sub since he is stationary. trickier is trying to time him hitting a fixed spot; which ive done before as you dont have to be exact just catch him in blast range. you cant target unit directly but need to catch him stationary at a prov center or time it him hitting center (easiest in mtns as hes moving the slowest which increases margin of error to hit him)

      Ballistic missiles have decent HP, but still time attack and fire in a CM or sacrifice plane to trigger AA a few minites before Ballistic Missile hit.
      Hitting him once he's in a prov center is interesting idea. I can't use the timing idea as he's in my territory now and I can't target my own provinces as he rides into the center.
    • xovault wrote:

      Buckeyechamp wrote:

      Another possibility is a ballistic sub since he is stationary. trickier is trying to time him hitting a fixed spot; which ive done before as you dont have to be exact just catch him in blast range. you cant target unit directly but need to catch him stationary at a prov center or time it him hitting center (easiest in mtns as hes moving the slowest which increases margin of error to hit him)

      Ballistic missiles have decent HP, but still time attack and fire in a CM or sacrifice plane to trigger AA a few minites before Ballistic Missile hit.
      Hitting him once he's in a prov center is interesting idea. I can't use the timing idea as he's in my territory now and I can't target my own provinces as he rides into the center.
      yeah no ballistic in own country sucks. like not ideal but if over run in real life sometimes you have to bomb own territory. I was on apocolypse map and some jackbutt african country sent his whole country into one port (think perth). I had to unleash nukes on own territory via CM and got him before got to my capital.. beat him back than wiped out his country. You can still do timing thing on ballistic if near coast. you just have to have finger on button as he takes a prov and hopefully short enough misile flight to catch him in blast radius (not sure would work without nukes) but I did lauch nukes on prov just lost.
      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp
    • Generally we refer "fencing" as the situation where both players are active (24/24 7/7 standard) , connected (0 latency, in front of the screen, continuously) , and proficient in hit&run (trained/hardened).

      The way how the two players will advance, retreat, do micro moves, alternate forced march/normal march, feint, try to exploit better the angles of approach that make them "getting in range" in a few 0.1 seconds than their opponent, and ultimately assault to try to be the first to "get the point" (aka hit), somewhat looks like fencing.



      We tend to say that at high training level, you generally forget the possibility to "run" in hit&run, and that the best victory you can achieve is to deal damage first. Of course, being the first to land hits at each assault implies you will demolish your opponent with a 3 K/D anyway, due to losses and the curve of damage reduction.
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • adding on the ballistic missile to enemy after they capture land, i believed it is a viable tactic.

      pro:
      - basic AA can’t do much to it
      - high damage

      natural:
      - TDS can defeated your missile but it slow at
      - fast stack can out run it, you need to be strategic when too fire, how far you place your plateform, when enemy on what terrain? best is when they in mountain so they slow af or you were extremely close.

      con:
      - kinda expensive
      - enemy can bait you to waste missile on low value unit
      This post was made by Leader of the Church of ROAD
    • It summarises it pretty well.

      Also, it works better in mid than in late, as in late, the groups will usually have, for completely unrelated reasons, still enough plate armor to stop them at max level. (But well, could argue that ICBM will work :D )
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • Opulon wrote:

      It summarises it pretty well.

      Also, it works better in mid than in late, as in late, the groups will usually have, for completely unrelated reasons, still enough plate armor to stop them at max level. (But well, could argue that ICBM will work :D )
      thats because lategame armor is made out of unobtainium; would explain their cost at least
      I am The Baseline for opinions