Day 1 guide

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    • Drony77 wrote:

      Let me explain a bit more.
      It's about day 1 and day 1 only.
      My main point is - build units that you can level up until top levels. Don't research/build units you won't need later. If you do you exchange your resources for power that lasts for a game week at best.
      Like inf - used until the endgame, it is always needed. SF - same if you chose this build. Corvette - must be researched anyway if you want navy so why don't have one or two ? Etc.
      Recon - you can't airlift it far enough while it is low level so it becomes burden as you expand. If you expand fast - they end up defending your cap.
      Helicopters - in my experience they lose their value pretty fast with the development of SF/ASF and if the game is x4.
      Sounds like skill issue using helis or just nvr encountered AA before :P

    • Drony77 wrote:

      Let me explain a bit more.
      It's about day 1 and day 1 only.
      My main point is - build units that you can level up until top levels. Don't research/build units you won't need later. If you do you exchange your resources for power that lasts for a game week at best.
      Like inf - used until the endgame, it is always needed. SF - same if you chose this build. Corvette - must be researched anyway if you want navy so why don't have one or two ? Etc.
      Recon - you can't airlift it far enough while it is low level so it becomes burden as you expand. If you expand fast - they end up defending your cap.
      Helicopters - in my experience they lose their value pretty fast with the development of SF/ASF and if the game is x4.
      So you would build a couple of corvettes even you would not upgrade and use them latter on but not the same with recons?

      You just don't like recons :D

    • Zemunelo wrote:

      Drony77 wrote:

      Let me explain a bit more.
      It's about day 1 and day 1 only.
      My main point is - build units that you can level up until top levels. Don't research/build units you won't need later. If you do you exchange your resources for power that lasts for a game week at best.
      Like inf - used until the endgame, it is always needed. SF - same if you chose this build. Corvette - must be researched anyway if you want navy so why don't have one or two ? Etc.
      Recon - you can't airlift it far enough while it is low level so it becomes burden as you expand. If you expand fast - they end up defending your cap.
      Helicopters - in my experience they lose their value pretty fast with the development of SF/ASF and if the game is x4.
      So you would build a couple of corvettes even you would not upgrade and use them latter on but not the same with recons?
      You just don't like recons :D
      Corvettes> CRVs
      CRVs are just useless, like they sure can spot SPF but other than that all melee units are useless and will remain that way.

      Corvettes are much better because they are relatively cheap to produce and covers you’re shores effectively during early game. This is especially important when you think of it especially when you’re playing as a navy dependent country .
      Mid to late game, Corvettes still are useful as floating radar buoys, helping to detect subs and other enemy ships carrying ill intentions and trading that valuable information for a very low price.

    • Zemunelo wrote:

      You can just say the same for recons. But both are useless in late game.
      The point is they are both better to produce on day 1 than only infantry.
      Nah, you need corvettes for frigates, corvettes can bombard other cities that you can’t spare you’re main stacks for, CRVs lvl 1 are useless and thrash.

      Nah, inf is ok, best option to produce first is ASF, Corvettes> CRV


      I’m sure I don’t need to write an entire reply explaining why CRvs are pretty lame do I?

    • japan samurai wrote:

      I’m sure I don’t need to write an entire reply explaining why CRvs are pretty lame do I?
      You're right. You don't need to do it.

      Instead you can read what's written elsewhere about both CRVs and Corvettes being useful, but not necessary on Day 1, and being less useful but not completely useless later.

      Good players are allowed to have different opinions about the compromises involved in building either.

    • Well I managed to kill serious stacks day 1 and 2 with a single corvette. And sometimes in later game too (surprisingly many players still send troops across the ocean with no escort at all). So this unit is situational ofc, but can be MVP sometimes. And yes, I do not upgrade them later on and have only 1 or 2. Also, corvettes utilize supplies and I usually still have some spare after all research, building and units are undergo. Same with helis, but it's another story. I used them many times, but imo they have disadvantage against ASF and even SF. By the time my opponent gets decent AA I have other tools to deal with it.
      I would not argue about CRV, it depends on playstyle. I would only mention that they utilize components you could use on SF/ASF instead.

    • KFGauss wrote:

      japan samurai wrote:

      I’m sure I don’t need to write an entire reply explaining why CRvs are pretty lame do I?
      You're right. You don't need to do it.
      Instead you can read what's written elsewhere about both CRVs and Corvettes being useful, but not necessary on Day 1, and being less useful but not completely useless later.

      Good players are allowed to have different opinions about the compromises involved in building either.
      Can’t find much,
      Not gonna lie I found a thread saying mech inf used to have 50HP at tier 3?!??
      And they were also talking about “doom stacks” and how unpopular and “lame” helis were but oh well.


      AS CRVs only have a role of being a reconnaissance unit, it is easily surpassed in roles by units such as Special Forces which can also get out and harrass enemy SAMs, arty. Where CRVs however get spotted and easily destroyed.

    • japan samurai wrote:

      KFGauss wrote:

      japan samurai wrote:

      I’m sure I don’t need to write an entire reply explaining why CRvs are pretty lame do I?
      You're right. You don't need to do it.Instead you can read what's written elsewhere about both CRVs and Corvettes being useful, but not necessary on Day 1, and being less useful but not completely useless later.

      Good players are allowed to have different opinions about the compromises involved in building either.
      Can’t find much,Not gonna lie I found a thread saying mech inf used to have 50HP at tier 3?!??
      And they were also talking about “doom stacks” and how unpopular and “lame” helis were but oh well.


      AS CRVs only have a role of being a reconnaissance unit, it is easily surpassed in roles by units such as Special Forces which can also get out and harrass enemy SAMs, arty. Where CRVs however get spotted and easily destroyed.
      Here's a summary of what I and a some others have written here in the not so distant past. I've organized it into a Q&A format

      Question: What are the majority of anyone's opponents in public games?
      Answer: Abandoned countries being run by the game AI

      Question: If you have a public-game aggressive-expansion playing-style, what's a powerful Day 1 unit to use in (melee) combat for the first 2-3 game days (while you are creating your non-melee attack units)?
      Answer: Recons (aka CRVs) are one valid option.

      Question: In public games, what can you do with Recons after the first few days?
      Answer 1: Use them in stacks you send into AI-held territory - They help you avoid bumping into defenders, and help you know precisely how much attack strength you'll need to clear any defenders found (you avoid wasting time overkilling or underkilling targets).
      Answer 2: Use them to babysit newly captured cities while you wait for the cities' morale to improve.

      Question: Can't you attack defending stacks (AI or live) somewhat blindly and determine roughly what you're up against by noticing how fiercely (or not) they fight back?
      Answer: Yes, but some players find that a poor way to gather intel about defenders, and like to match attacks more carefully with the type and number of the defenders they are attacking than that other method allows.

      Question: Doesn't building CRVs require using up a Research project initially and require investing Components that might be better used building other units?
      Answer: Yes, the game is full of compromises and "bets", especially in the first few days. Players have to roll-the-dice a little bit when they decide if the payoff from fast expansion and long-term intel gathering against their most common opponent type is worth an investment into a few CRVs. Until someone does a whole lot of complex simulating, that's an open question.

      Question: Aren't there other ways to accomplish what you can accomplish with CRVs?
      Answer: Yes - And - Opinions about whether those alternatives are always better or worse than using a few CRVs in public games shouldn't be confused with facts. Many successful players with excellent public-game win/loss records build a few CRVs early on.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by KFGauss ().

    • My TAKE:

      CRVs are lame at scouting AI, just use Radar/ASf, AIs barely use ASfs and at the start of the game the ai units stay in cities. If they do however separate than it’ll be random 1 inf/CRV/AFV sitting in random border Provinces

      CRVs ok at somewhat defending, NGs are so much cheaper and when mixed with infantry and maybe bunkers( long term investment + boost morale) is a better strat for defence.
      (Saves resource for non melee units, not to mention 1 bunker ==1 CRV **almost)


      Just make sure you get SPf by day 10-14 for scouting those neighbour enemies
      Usually if someone has a super big stack, they usually only have a few of those “stacks” eg 2-3 early game and thus if they have such big stacks they probably are aiming it at destroying you, so you still end up having to fight them anyway, whether you like it or not.

    • At this point i'm fearful to ask why a player would need to scout an AI, especially in early. Of the things CoN allows players to predict with 100% certainty, AI build and positioning is amongst them.
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.

    • Opulon wrote:

      At this point i'm fearful to ask why a player would need to scout an AI, especially in early. Of the things CoN allows players to predict with 100% certainty, AI build and positioning is amongst them.
      When I wrote "AI", I meant abandoned player-countries, not the little, single-NG, non-playable countries. The locations and types of units you find in abandoned countries varies a lot.

      And, using CRVs to give you a little better sense of what's around you when you're bumbling through an abandoned country is a weak reason for building some CRVs - Instead I think of it as a secondary use for the CRVs after they have fulfilled their original purpose.

      For example in a current game the game AI hasn't been building or moving units in abandoned countries, but, in those abandoned countries I've had to deal with (kill) flying and grounded planes/helos, NG/MotInf/MechInf stacks, moving and stationary Tank stacks with and without Inf, and AA units. When I encounter(ed) those abandoned stacks, it would be nice to know exactly what is in them (however, I didn't build CRVs in that game).

      Also, even if a UserXXXXXX abandons a playable country quickly, they often move the initial units around or build a few before quitting.

      Separately, I am familiar with the WW3 AI behavior of building and moving units in abandoned countries (AI that produces AFVs that get added to any player-built abandoned units). Some maps don't do that, and regardless, player leftovers can be anything.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by KFGauss ().

    • japan samurai wrote:

      Zemunelo wrote:

      You can just say the same for recons. But both are useless in late game.
      The point is they are both better to produce on day 1 than only infantry.
      Nah, you need corvettes for frigates, corvettes can bombard other cities that you can’t spare you’re main stacks for, CRVs lvl 1 are useless and thrash.
      Nah, inf is ok, best option to produce first is ASF, Corvettes> CRV


      I’m sure I don’t need to write an entire reply explaining why CRvs are pretty lame do I?
      Please do, especially explain it to me why would I need corvettes in Flashpoint map if playing with South East European country like Serbia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Austria, Czech or similar that is for me most interesting to play with?
      Do you realize not everyone is playing ww3 island nation?

    • japan samurai wrote:

      My TAKE:

      CRVs are lame at scouting AI, just use Radar/ASf, AIs barely use ASfs and at the start of the game the ai units stay in cities. If they do however separate than it’ll be random 1 inf/CRV/AFV sitting in random border Provinces

      CRVs ok at somewhat defending, NGs are so much cheaper and when mixed with infantry and maybe bunkers( long term investment + boost morale) is a better strat for defence.
      (Saves resource for non melee units, not to mention 1 bunker ==1 CRV **almost)


      Just make sure you get SPf by day 10-14 for scouting those neighbour enemies
      Usually if someone has a super big stack, they usually only have a few of those “stacks” eg 2-3 early game and thus if they have such big stacks they probably are aiming it at destroying you, so you still end up having to fight them anyway, whether you like it or not.
      JS - Were you intending to contradict or refute what I wrote about using CRVs to aggressively expand in the first few days (1 through 5-ish) of a typical public game, and about ways to use them after their primary purpose has been fulfilled?

      If you were I simply don't see the connections between what we wrote in our two posts. If you don't mind, help me make those connections so that we don't just "talk" past each other.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by KFGauss ().

    • i was simply putting my take on certain questions and answers you had kindly sent in the chat for others to read.
      But i do think i failed to understand some things and talked past you so thats my bad.

      when i saw you write “AI” i saw it ad abondoned countries, which is why I said whatever i did as “AI” after taking over doesn’t immediately begin moving troops and stuff, at least in FP
      However one weakness of ai moving such units the moments it takes over is how those units split up and end up one their own. Which means that most of the resistance you will encounter will be minimal. Using ASF to scout is more efficient and effective.

      Early game vast and quick expansions is something i’m not a fan of as it results in higher casualties and unit losses a long with less troops back at home to do any serious defence. Also means that you’re main mid game attacking force is delayed in production and research as more resources are pumped into the quick expansion effort

    • JS - I'm on my phone right now so I'm not able to easily write a proper reply, but I'll keep the ball rolling by saying I'll give you one soon (if I don't forget).

      Some of your assertions simply aren't backed up by any evidence I've seen in public games, and are instead contradicted by evidence published here in the forum.

      Lets review that evidence and see if you might want to alter some of your thinking.

    • KFGauss wrote:

      JS - I'm on my phone right now so I'm not able to easily write a proper reply, but I'll keep the ball rolling by saying I'll give you one soon (if I don't forget).

      Some of your assertions simply aren't backed up by any evidence I've seen in public games, and are instead contradicted by evidence published here in the forum.

      Lets review that evidence and see if you might want to alter some of your thinking.
      No prob, i always reply using phones XD
      Happy to learn