Look through a different Lens - What's your ACTUAL Day 5, 10, 15, 20, ... Order of Battle (OOB)

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    • Look through a different Lens - What's your ACTUAL Day 5, 10, 15, 20, ... Order of Battle (OOB)

      Folks,

      [Edit]

      TLDR: In a typical public game, when you're in a successful (so far) coalition, when the game clock reaches 12:00 on Days 5, 10, 15, and 20, if we freeze the game and count up your units, what will we find?

      I've noticed discussions here about units' values or importance, and about combat or economic strategies, often get mired in confusion when posts refer to wildly different periods of a "typical" game, or mix together public-game and alliance-game experiences and wisdom, or stray to far from an original question.

      So, I've got a question that doesn't involve debating who's right or wrong; I'm hoping the answers will be useful and that we'll get more than 1 or 2 answers before the discussion inevitably falls off the rails. :S .

      The (Public game) questions are:

      • What are your Days 5, 10, 15, and/or 20, or anything similar, Orders of Battle?
      • Also, it would be nice to know
        • If you have one or more coalition ally(s).
        • If your and your ally(s) positions are roughly similar (you've all been equally successful or unsuccessful).
        • Your home country.
        • How many cities (Home/Annexed/Occupied) you control now.
        • If (so far) in this game you had to travel through varying terrains
        • If (so far) in this game you had some Naval interactions
        • If there are any other coalitions similar to your coalition in the game


      There is nothing wrong with offering/posting OOBs from different games. However, please stick to what actually occurs in your games.

      Remember please - This *is* about what you have at Day 5/10/15/20. It's *not* about why you have that stuff, and it's *not* about what you're going to do next.

      Also, this isn't about what you would tell someone they *should* have. It's about what you usually *actually* have.

      And, before the conversation (assuming one does occur) dives into comparisons, and/or criticism and debate rabbit holes, I'm really hopeful that we can see as many as 6 or 7 diverse replies posted.

      [\Edit]

      KFG

      The post was edited 1 time, last by KFGauss ().

    • Day 20 huh?
      It’s kinda hard to come up with something since i dont have any game running rn for comparison, but i‘d guess something like this?:

      • about 10 asf (normal + naval usually mixed)
      • 5 elite subs
      • starting units so about 15 inf i guess
      • 2-3 mobile radar
      —> total 32-33 units so far
      and thats the point where it pretty much starts to change depending on if i go for artillery, helis (or god forbid sf)

      artillery:
      • 5-10 either mobile AA or maybe even sams; mobile AA would be the early pick for a hard unit to bully inf + some aa; if not mobile AA then later on sams
      • about 10 mrls i guess; really hard to put a definite number on that one because it can change a lot depending on how early you start
      for helis:
      • a total of about 15-20; a mix of gunships and attack helis, specifc numbers on what type kinda hard to pin down cuz i care more about having a 3/2 mixed stack then what type of heli
      Tho I‘d argue that anything that can deal with tanks and strikefighters at day 20 is already S-Tier for publics by default

      criticism: setup is waaaaay to specific for what basically amounts to „best army you could have in your opinion within day 20 research limitations and within 50 units“
      the „you start with 6 cities“ seems kinda pointless as far as scenarios go cuz it doesn’t really add much in terms of anything to the scenario. The „25 cities“ one kinds irks me but its somewhat understandable in the attempt to keep the scenario somewhat believable
      I am The Baseline for opinions
    • Teburu wrote:

      . . .

      criticism: setup is waaaaay to specific for what basically amounts to „best army you could have in your opinion within day 20 research limitations and within 50 units“
      the „you start with 6 cities“ seems kinda pointless as far as scenarios go cuz it doesn’t really add much in terms of anything to the scenario. The „25 cities“ one kinds irks me but its somewhat understandable in the attempt to keep the scenario somewhat believable
      Thanks for the reply(s).

      No substantial argument with your criticisms.
      • I wrote the request they way I did because I explicitly didn't want to ask for "best army you could have".
      • I explicitly wanted to ask about the army(s) you *actually* have, when reality is given a vote.
      • And, I wanted to keep the responses "on point", instead of wandering over hill and dale.
      • Like you, I too was working from memory about what a Day 20 public, successful-coalition, position looks like.
      • The scenario can be adjusted in a later revision, in which I hope to summarize the replies that accumulate here.
      • 25-cities was an attempt to calibrate what sort of resource income the position has experienced as it grew.
      • I put in the 6-cities item because I think the 6 vs 5 cities has a measurable effect on your Supplies income.
      Thanks again,
      KFG
    • Meh, I don't know how to answer this since most of my games are so varied. I mean there are certain units I always build, but their numbers vary widely. Sometimes it will be navy focused, sometimes artillery, sometimes ASF. I try to approach the formless.
      *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***
      The KING of CoN News!!!
      The "Get off my lawn!" cranky CoN Forums Poster - not affiliated with Dorado in any way


      "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD
    • Depends on Map; your country and oppenents but just blitz USA Map in 25 days. Had enough for solo but won 2 man coalition and went extremely skinny well researched stack. My goal early on is not to waste troops on 50/50 battles or even 70/30

      started off as 5 city British Columbia. Ended up with 131 Cities and couldnt spend resources fast enough.

      Day 25 (really end of day 24 and last 3 - 4 days went full CMs in all cities as a highly researched 5 stack of SF fully stocked with CMs is a shit ton of fire power and I had 6 of those stacks ...lol. Last few days blitzed whole east coast; up into mich; and south in Mexico as had basically 3 fronts.) so basically units roughly what had day 20. Use CMs to take out Armor than clean up inf with SF stacks. 2 or 3 lvl 6 will insa kill a Inf unit with little damage taken. Stack deals out 50 inf/175 armor damage with CMs and 40HP/40 HP on strike x 6 stacks can hit enemy with combined 540 inf / 1890 armor damage in 1 hr if had too.

      31 SF lvl 6 ( Days 8 - 20 just mass producing after day 20 full bore CMs in 5 plus two annex cities;)
      5 CMs - was using them as fast as could produce 28 per day. Just crushed a 40k man NY army in like 12 hrs.
      10 TD lvl 5 ( May start using more as got them to fly and found they are actually great to hold cities; Rougue scared shitless of TD and 1 will hold any city instead of 2 or 3 inf/ng units). Will probably scrap NGs in fuure and build more of these with limited airborn to conquor.
      15 INF lvl 6 (mostly what started with a few more. Key is I dont loose troops. so I build army not replenish). Lvl 6 you are now mobile arty at like 6 hp damage per unit from distance.
      13 NG lvl 5 (In future may scrap NGs in lue of TDs; better at holding city and will have close to gather an fend of attack).
      4 Corvettes lvl 1 - Weakest navy ever played with but in Pacific NW not alot of Naval battles working across plains states. Set up the 4 stack as a door stop off san diegi choke point to protect whole west coast. Ended up killing some end rd transports and single ships when sleeping.
      2 rcv lvl 1 - Free bees
      1 ASF - Free bee

      The post was edited 7 times, last by Buckeyechamp ().

    • Buckeyechamp wrote:

      Depends on Map; ...
      Thanks Buckeye

      About the "Depends on Map" aspect... We agree.

      Regardless, each/any report of an actual Day 20 OOB (instead of a hypothetical wish list) helps reveal what's common, and what's not; what's typical and what's not; what's possible and what's not, etc.

      I think this is an accurate Air/Land/Sea summary of what you wrote above:
      • BG USA Map
      • 31 Strike Fighters (Lvl 6)
      • 1 Air Sup Fighter (Lvl 1?)
      • 5 Conventional Warheads for Cruise Missiles
      • 10 Tank Destroyers (Lvl 5)
      • 2 Combat Recons (Lvl 1)
      • 15 (Motorized?) Infantry (Lvl 6)
      • 13 Nat Guard (Lvl 5)
      • 4 Corvettes (Lvl 1)
      ---
      76 units + 5 Warheads

      The post was edited 3 times, last by KFGauss ().

    • Dealer of Death wrote:

      ... most of my games are so varied ....
      That's OK with the person asking the question (me :thumbup: ). When you reach (or can remember reasonably well) Day 20 in any public game, if you write down your OOB on a scrap of paper and then later report it here (once making the report won't endanger you in that game); I'll be delighted.

      If you care to participate, you writing something different for each game you're in will be just as important as if you reported the same thing for every game. Either will reveal something useful to readers, especially rookie readers.
    • Maybe you could expand a bit your initial setup. Currently, i'm playing a public map that will remain in my own books as one i played with outrageous and shameful inactivity (logged maybe once or two a day). Day 20 : 31 cities and 53 units.

      Anyone here could crush me without breaking a sweat, with how pathetic i played. My only excuse is being overwhelmed by IRL and IG alliance management. Still, it's i think i good example of a "Pathetic Ground Zero" efficiency for a player.


      I think you can start from the principle that anyone that plays a map the minimum it requires has achived around 60 cities and 70 units by day 20. 90 units if they have a "infantry" role.


      So, are you interested in faulty and useless builds ? :D
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • KFGauss wrote:

      Buckeyechamp wrote:

      Depends on Map; ...
      Thanks Buckeye
      About the "Depends on Map" aspect... We agree.

      Regardless, each/any report of an actual Day 20 OOB (instead of a hypothetical wish list) helps reveal what's common, and what's not; what's typical and what's not; what's possible and what's not, etc.

      I think this is an accurate Air/Land/Sea summary of what you wrote above:
      • BG USA Map
      • 31 Strike Fighters (Lvl 6)
      • 1 Air Sup Fighter (Lvl 1?)
      • 5 Conventional Warheads for Cruise Missiles
      • 10 Tank Destroyers (Lvl 5)
      • 2 Combat Recons (Lvl 1)
      • 15 (Motorized?) Infantry (Lvl 6)
      • 13 Nat Guard (Lvl 5)
      • 4 Corvettes (Lvl 1)
      ---
      76 units + 5 Warheads
      some how i had 82 units .. but my one suggestion for CoN is a units menu like cities. But representasive but hard tracking all units spread across map.
    • Opulon wrote:

      Maybe you could expand a bit your initial setup. . . . Day 20 : 31 cities and 53 units.
      . . .
      I think you can start from the principle that anyone that plays a map the minimum it requires has achived around 60 cities and 70 units by day 20. 90 units if they have a "infantry" role.
      . . .
      Thanks O.

      You've made me realize that since I first had this idea, I've shifted my outlook from wanting people to imagine a game status, to wanting people to simply report what they have built at Day 20.

      My entire "Here's an imaginary game/position status" description was aimed at getting people to stick to describing one more or less typical situation. If the replies here describe any/all situations the forum users can imagine, then the result is useless. But, you and @Teburu (and @Buckeyechamp) are right that the situation I described is off target (I was doing my best to recall what happened in a samll set of games (two WW3 games, two Flashpoint games, and two BG USA games)).

      Everyone - How about this for the common situation to describe - If you want to add to the information here, please report your Day 20 status for these items
      1. Game type (WW3, FP, CW, or BGUSA)(I think it makes sense to exclude the others)
      2. Cities controlled
      3. Coalition size (0 through 5)
      4. Order of Battle (unit names and numbers (and level if you have the time and motivation))


      There are lots of reasons someone might want to collect info like this. My goal *isn't* evaluating what's the right way to play (So yes, even faulty and useless builds that survive to day 20 are worth putting into the list - Folks will notice that they aren't repeated in the rest of the list).

      I simply think that if new (and some old) players can see what an assortment of Day 20 positions and armies look like, that will show them what to try to accomplish, and will help steer them away from dead ends (like building 30 MBTs and 20 Submarines, or 40 NSF & 5 Carriers)).

      KFG

      PS: @Opulon - If you have any influence with the folks at Dorado, it would be *very* interesting if they reached into their databases and pulled out this information for a few thousand Day 20 players' positions, and offered all forum readers (or wiki readers) a summary of the results.
    • KFGauss wrote:

      Buckeyechamp wrote:

      some how i had 82 units .. but my one suggestion for CoN is a units menu like cities. But representasive but hard tracking all units spread across map.
      76 seems close enough to 82. However, if you remember what the other six were, just DM me and I'll edit my summary.
      I guess it counted the 5 CMs in inventory as Units; so just missing one.
    • I can only give you a partially accurate example from a game of mine that just finished. I can't remember exactly what units I had on Day 20, but I can try to give an idea as best I can remember, if that's useful to you?

      I was playing WW3 as Myanmar (6 starting cities) and I had 513 VPs at that point (Home territories + the rest of Indochina, about half of Indonesia, half of China and all of India/Bangladesh/Sri Lanka/Nepal).

      I reckon I had all the starting units (might have lost a Mot. Inf or 2?) plus maybe another round of mobilization. Call it 15 Mot Inf and maybe 5 Recons? Infantry would have been L1 still, but the Recons would have been L3.

      I definitely had about 5 or 6 Airborne Infantry (L1) and I probably had about 6 National Guard (also L1).

      I also would have had some Towed Artillery, probably about 6 of them at L1 (I didn't start upgrading them until late because I was barely using them) and maybe 8 or so TDs (L1 again!). I think that was probably it for my land army. Oh, Infantry Officer L3 I definitely had quite early on. (Didn't really make use of him in the whole game, though!)

      And I've just realised I definitely had some Mobile AA by then - maybe 3 or 4 at L1.

      Then I had probably 10 ASFs. (I doubt I had 3 stacks yet, but it's just about possible I was building them). On Day 20 they would have been L4. Sorry, 9 L4 ASFs and 1 Air Ace Officer (L1). I think I had 7 each of Attack Helis and Gunships, plus the Helicopter Officer. All level 1s. I would have had some Heavy Bombers as well - by Day 20 I had about 6-8 of them at Level 4 - I think 8. Might have had an AWACS, but I'm not confident about that. I was going for Stealth Heavies, but I doubt I'd built one yet. (might have done, just about!)

      Then Navy. Probably about 8 Corvettes. Maybe nothing else. I might have started building some proper ships, but maybe it was later on than that. I ended up having a couple of stacks, mostly cruisers, with a Naval Officer in one of them. I am not confident that I'd started doing that by Day 20, though, so you can rule them out. I definitely did have 5 Attack Subs, though. And I might have had an ASW Heli or two, but I wasn't using them yet (so discount them as well!).

      Is that any use to you?
    • Thanks WC - A decent guesstimate is fine & useful - If we accumulate enough of these, some patterns should start to emerge - Extracting factoids from your post I come up with this summary:
      • WW3, Myanmar, 513 VP, In a Coalition with Japan (but not actually communicating/cooperating with each other)
      • Cities = Home territories (6 cities) + the rest of Indochina, about half of Indonesia, half of China and all of India/Bangladesh/Sri Lanka/Nepal
      • 15 Mot Inf (Lvl 1) (maybe fewer)
      • 6 Airborne Inf (Lvl 1)
      • 6 Nat Gd (Lvl 1)
      • 1 Infantry Officer (Lvl 3)
      • 6 Towed Art (Lvl 1)
      • 4 Mobile AA (Lvl 1)
      • 8 Tank Dest (Lvl 1) (maybe fewer)
      • 5 Recons (Lvl 3)
      • 9 Air Sup Fighters (Lvl 4)
      • 1 Air Ace Officer (Lvl 1)
      • 7 Attack Heli (Lvl 1)
      • 7 Gunship Heli (Lvl 1)
      • 2 ASW Heli (Lvl _)
      • 1 Helicopter Officer (Lvl 1)
      • 7 Heavy Bomber (Lvl 4)
      • 8 Corvettes (Lvl _) (maybe fewer)
      • 5 Attack Subs (Lvl _)
      • -----------------------
      • 98 units

      The post was edited 2 times, last by KFGauss ().

    • I love this thread.
      I wish it didn't go stagnant... This should be the most popular thread... ok, maybe just under the meme one.

      It's dangerous to open forum strategies... sure... but seems like all the active players want more competent players to exist...and this thread seems like it might produce more.

      Trying to necromance this back to the top of the list...
      My current games are at day 23 and 26...
      @KFGauss Should I fudge the figures a little and give my "what I think I had at day 20" for them?
      Out of respect, I think this is a great concept and I don't want to muddy it up... yay or nay?

      P.S. Could we have a day 40 scenario started?... I'm equally interested in that milestone... Hell, a day 10 and a day 30 thread would be nice to reference as well.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Smallsword ().

    • @Smallsword

      Go for it.

      I collected OOB info from allies and myself during a recent (very easy) public WW3 game. Some day when I have more time (February?) I'll post those data.

      I think any OOB info here is good. I think early (days 5, 10, 15, 20) is waaaay better than boring "I built 20 Cruisers on Day 60." empty bragging.

      And, the entire thought process behind wondering if useful information can ever be dead, just dumbfounds me.

      So yes, definitely, go for it.
    • Alright then...my current games break a lot of this threads parameters... but I'll go give it to you straight. (I took notes yesterday)
      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Game 1.
      I've been taking it really easy for several days, not producing much other than officers, at war with no nation for several days.
      (Trying to let the competition survive... made terms with them to have an end game finale once the A.I. is all gobbled up.)

      Battleground, USA
      Solo, California, day 23
      54 cities
      139 units
      5 frigates-L1
      44 motorized infantry-L5
      1 Infantry officer-L1
      1 helicopter officer-L1
      17 attack helicopters-L3
      17 gunships-L4
      2 UAV-L1
      2 recon-L1
      10 Mobile AA-L1
      17 Towed artillery-L4
      10 ASF-L4
      11 Tank Destroyers-L4
      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Game 2.
      (Started with Naval Dominance (objective complete) ...mass mobilizing TA and TD last couple of days... now switching to ASF and Heavy bombers-(none currently mobilized))
      WW3
      Coalition , USA, day 26
      Allies - Chile/Cuba/Columbia
      55 cities
      125 units
      1 Task Force Commander -L4
      20 Frigate -L5
      2 Corvette -L1
      28 Motorized infantry-L2
      7 Naval infantry-L1
      26 Tank Destroyers -L5
      3 Recon (starting)
      28 Towed Artillery -L4
      10 ASF-L3 (researching L4)
      (20 conventional warheads for CM -L1)
    • Day 15

      59 cities

      76 units

      2 corvettes Lvl 1
      3 cruisers Lvl 2
      10 Gunships - Lvl 2
      10 Attack Helicopters - Lvl 3
      12 ASF - lvl 4
      8 reco lvl 1
      12 infantry lvl 1 (the starting one)
      15 national guard lvl 2 (and i know i should have them lvl 3)
      4 MRL lvl 2 (into 3)

      Production is 2 MRL and a Cruiser a day, approximately. I squeeze in an additional ASF/Attack Helicopter/Gunship depending of breathing, and i expect to continue like that until day 18. I do not have yet the rare materials to develop properly sams, against my usual advice of "do them as early as possible", but nobody bothered with airforce... as often.


      Honestly, i don't know what i'm doing on this map, i'm a headless chicken, just doing things. The only thing remarkable is that i specifically aim to steal electronics-producing cities, and rare material cities.

      PS : it's to note that i am not solo. I'm on this map as per request of my alliance to train two newcomers of Nelva. I consider it an advantage, even if they are rookies. Even a rookie, if he is active enough, is already overwhelming for the usual player. The fact i take so much time to try to explain them how the game works is probably the explanation why i'm just attacking countries the closer to me and just outright eating them without a second thought.

      I say that before people point out my slow expansion. It's true, it's slow, but it's a chill map
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.