Infantry changes

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    • Infantry changes

      Here are some changes I propose for infantry. Currently, the 2 main infantry that people use are Motorized and National Guard. The rest are rare, despite having their own abilities and uses.

      For all infantry, cost in Manpower and Money is standardized at 1K each except for National Guard

      <Mechanized Infantry>
      -Reduced requirements to Army Base lvl 1, Recruiting Office lvl 1, Arms industry lvl 1

      <Naval Infantry>
      -Has Mortar from T2 onwards
      -Reduced requirements to Army Base lvl 1, Recruiting Office lvl 1 (No navy base)
      -New Stats:
      T1 (For example)
      VS Inf- 6.0 ATK, 4.0 DEF
      VS Armor- 4.0 ATK, 2.0 DEF
      VS Fixed Wing- 0.5 DEF
      VS Rotary Wing- 1.0 DEF

      <Airborne Infantry>
      -Reduced requirements to Army Base lvl 1, Recruiting Office lvl1, Airbase lvl 1
      -Instead of 1K comp, it uses 500 Comp and 500 Supplies
      - +25 ATK modifier in City and Urban
      - Damage increased to match Naval infantry
      - Air assault range is always 500

      <Spec Ops>
      -Damage vs Armor increased
      (Edited)
      Yee Haw

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Colonel Waffles ().

    • That’s fair

      My biggest issue with current infantry types is that they are annoying to produce, but Mech is fairly powerful for what it is. I will edit

      As for naval, the reason I opt for removal of naval base is that it blocks naval infantry from landlocked countries. Naval inf is a very specialized inf and it’s perks go far beyond the amphibious ability. It also doesn’t really help balance it, and only makes it more annoying to make
      Yee Haw
    • We can argue about boosting infantry, especially naval and airborn (why not), but Special Forces ? They are already in nearly ALL meta builds of late due to their incredible ability and killing power. Their stack damage potential is EQUIVALENT TO A ICBM, for god'sake, why do you want more firepower with it ? XD. It's already a insanely powerful unit.


      Really, a big no to that suggestion about the special forces. If anything, because your suggestion makes "null and void" any attempt to make other infantry better.

      We are talking (in your suggestion) about a high dps unit good against BOTH soft and armored, with ludicrously high value in "most terrains", ignoring ANY kind of entrenchment bonus on the other side, STEALTH, with the ability to fly beyond the range of other helicopter, and similar to what planes do.

      And it requires military base lvl 2. Lvl 2 XD

      Why would anyone do ANYTHING but special forces by the hundred, and a few National guards to take the empty territory ? (it's already a bit the case, not gonna lie)

      And i won't even comment on the project to give them a RANGED attack. STEALTH ARTILLERY.


      Sorry if i sound hysterical, but it's (in my mind) like if you just suggested to Buff the MRL by giving them 150 range, and +25% damage in plains and forest , or if the ASF """"needed""" to have more speed.


      ==============

      Mechanised infantry with a base lvl 1, "why not", but it really nerfes directly the NG and The motorised infantry, as the role of infantry is less to deal damage than to "endure them". If i can have mech inf with military base 1, it defeats a bit the purpose of the mech inf being a "elite" infantry, and the motorised infantry becomes way less interesting


      Mortars for Naval Infantry would actually make sense (much more than motorised) because Naval is supposedly the "offensive city stormer unit".


      Airborn, i'm not sure i agree with "this" specific suggestion, but i agree that they should be buffed in someway, because they fail to find their place as a contextual and specialised unit. Anything they do, Special forces does 5 times better anyway. Except taking territory.
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • Opulon wrote:

      We can argue about boosting infantry, especially naval and airborn (why not), but Special Forces ? They are already in nearly ALL meta builds of late due to their incredible ability and killing power. Their stack damage potential is EQUIVALENT TO A ICBM, for god'sake, why do you want more firepower with it ? XD. It's already a insanely powerful unit.


      Really, a big no to that suggestion about the special forces. If anything, because your suggestion makes "null and void" any attempt to make other infantry better.

      We are talking (in your suggestion) about a high dps unit good against BOTH soft and armored, with ludicrously high value in "most terrains", ignoring ANY kind of entrenchment bonus on the other side, STEALTH, with the ability to fly beyond the range of other helicopter, and similar to what planes do.

      And it requires military base lvl 2. Lvl 2 XD

      Why would anyone do ANYTHING but special forces by the hundred, and a few National guards to take the empty territory ? (it's already a bit the case, not gonna lie)

      And i won't even comment on the project to give them a RANGED attack. STEALTH ARTILLERY.


      Sorry if i sound hysterical, but it's (in my mind) like if you just suggested to Buff the MRL by giving them 150 range, and +25% damage in plains and forest , or if the ASF """"needed""" to have more speed.


      ==============

      Mechanised infantry with a base lvl 1, "why not", but it really nerfes directly the NG and The motorised infantry, as the role of infantry is less to deal damage than to "endure them". If i can have mech inf with military base 1, it defeats a bit the purpose of the mech inf being a "elite" infantry, and the motorised infantry becomes way less interesting


      Mortars for Naval Infantry would actually make sense (much more than motorised) because Naval is supposedly the "offensive city stormer unit".


      Airborn, i'm not sure i agree with "this" specific suggestion, but i agree that they should be buffed in someway, because they fail to find their place as a contextual and specialised unit. Anything they do, Special forces does 5 times better anyway. Except taking territory.
      I did not suggest Spec Ops to get mortars. That is only for naval inf

      I did not think Spec Ops was as powerful as you say. I have always dismissed them as a cool unit that might be handy sometimes but for the most part is not as useful as others. I will definitely need to try them more
      Yee Haw
    • It would already help, if airbornes would use comps as upkeep instead of supply.

      I gave air assault builds up, because every f***ing unit has supply as upkeep, which ruins your economy over time (TD only exception).

      It also makes not much logical sense, that a unit that needs no supply to be produced, uses supply as upkeep.

      Display Spoiler
      Same problem with Recons, they are the only armor unit, that has supply as upkeep for unknown reason.


      Changing their upkeep to comp would also improve their usefullness in early game, before all for countries with only 5 cities.

      Supply is early on so important because of research, which makes playing countries without 2 supply core cities extra painful.


      My old topic about this:
      Units need more component upkeep

      Probably a paradigm for the disbalance between player view on things and a devs view...

      Just like the recent video of Riot about the current state of League of Legends...

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Kalrakh ().

    • Opulon wrote:

      Special Forces ... Their stack damage potential is EQUIVALENT TO A ICBM, for god'sake, why do you want more firepower with it ? ...
      @Opulon, please help a noob (me). A quick glance at max level Spetsnaz shows an attack strength of 12 against soft targets. If I multiply that by 10-in-a-stack, I get 120.

      120 is far weaker than ICBM attack strengths that are >= 400.

      Is there actually some way to get a stack Spec Ops troops up to an attack strength near 400?

      If there is please point me toward the information I need to read to learn about it.

      KFG
    • KFGauss wrote:

      Opulon wrote:

      Special Forces ... Their stack damage potential is EQUIVALENT TO A ICBM, for god'sake, why do you want more firepower with it ? ...
      @Opulon, please help a noob (me). A quick glance at max level Spetsnaz shows an attack strength of 12 against soft targets. If I multiply that by 10-in-a-stack, I get 120.
      120 is far weaker than ICBM attack strengths that are >= 400.

      Is there actually some way to get a stack Spec Ops troops up to an attack strength near 400?

      If there is please point me toward the information I need to read to learn about it.

      KFG
      My math would be:
      117 soft / _72 hard => 9x Max Spec
      _13 soft / __8 hard => 1x L5 Airborne Officer
      -----------------------
      130 soft / _80 hard
      104 soft / _ 64 hard => +80% from terrain and officer if forrest or jungle (if their bonuses add up and not multiply)
      -----------------------
      234 soft / 144 hard

      Which is quite a lot for something that can by used again and again

      The nuke reference was likely a little exageration for drama purpose ;)

      Though you must also consider: Nukes get their damage reduced by entrenchment/bunker, Specs ignore those and therefore deal 'true damage'
    • Even more noticable with Eastern Spec Ops.

      267 Soft Damage.

      Some madmen do use a infantry officer for torpedoes, which can typically rise the total damage to 300 soft / 180 hard.


      But yeah, the comparison to a nuke was for dramatisation. However, especially with the "storm" attribute, it can spectacularly vaporise entrenched groups in the right context.

      In late, Nukes also have to cope with a lot of units that get NBC protection. All bonus/malus gathered, in late, a doomstack of SF does deal "impossible to reduce" damages similar to what you except from nuclear payloads :D
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • Here my spin on this

      Make mot inf and NG be the same power level but different use.
      Make Mec, Airborne and Naval inf be the same power level, powerful then mot & ng but each with different use.

      Mot inf
      remove range attack
      reduce overall damage, have soft damage and def higher then attack.

      NG
      buff NG but also tide its combat performance to city morale.
      this is to nerf city grabper side of it and increase performance on its role, protect homeland
      but in my case, city with high or decent morale. so it will be perfect Homeland protector but less of attacker

      let say, boost all attack and def damage.

      remove current city atk&def buff then move it to

      if homeland -> +20%
      comebine with city morale
      if base morale 100% or more -> +30% and progressively go down 1% by each %morale (99%->+29% and so on)
      but never be negative.

      note that it is base on "base morale" (that influent by other morale condition) but not the current morale


      Airborne
      reduce deploying time for each generation of upgrade (let say 60/50/40) and allow then to retreat in the heli form.
      this would massively buff them and maybe would encourage people to actually use it as main damage dealer if
      they can safely retreat it when threated.

      Mec
      i think it is fine at most, buff all doctrine soft damage, make it the power house of infantry, the most brute force of all of them

      Naval inf
      remove all current terrain bonus and penalty, add new mechanic, boost +50% atk and def if operate in province that connected to water body. also buff its disembarking speed by each gen (+5% / +15% / +25%)

      This post was made by Leader of the Church of ROAD
    • playbabe wrote:

      Here my spin on this

      Make mot inf and NG be the same power level but different use.
      Make Mec, Airborne and Naval inf be the same power level, powerful then mot & ng but each with different use.

      Mot inf
      remove range attack
      reduce overall damage, have soft damage and def higher then attack.

      NG
      buff NG but also tide its combat performance to city morale.
      this is to nerf city grabper side of it and increase performance on its role, protect homeland
      but in my case, city with high or decent morale. so it will be perfect Homeland protector but less of attacker

      let say, boost all attack and def damage.

      remove current city atk&def buff then move it to

      if homeland -> +20%
      comebine with city morale
      if base morale 100% or more -> +30% and progressively go down 1% by each %morale (99%->+29% and so on)
      but never be negative.

      note that it is base on "base morale" (that influent by other morale condition) but not the current morale


      Airborne
      reduce deploying time for each generation of upgrade (let say 60/50/40) and allow then to retreat in the heli form.
      this would massively buff them and maybe would encourage people to actually use it as main damage dealer if
      they can safely retreat it when threated.

      Mec
      i think it is fine at most, buff all doctrine soft damage, make it the power house of infantry, the most brute force of all of them

      Naval inf
      remove all current terrain bonus and penalty, add new mechanic, boost +50% atk and def if operate in province that connected to water body. also buff its disembarking speed by each gen (+5% / +15% / +25%)
      I would remove the Capture Territory ability from NG altogether. And I would reduce mobilization times by half. The combat values I'm less interested in with them.

      I think Mot Inf could keep the mortar ability, but I would move it up to L7 instead of L6. And I'd give the same range attack ability to MBTs (just because it's ridiculous for them to be out ranged by infantry when they have a bloody great big canon on the front of their vehicle!).

      Mech, Naval and Airborne should all require L2 Army base. Mech with Arms Industry as well; Naval with Navy base; Airborne with airbase (L1). Mech should always be the fastest infantry unit, level-for-level; Naval can do amphibious landings (and I would reduce their disembarkation times compared to other units, increasingly tier by tier), plus I like the idea of giving them mortars earlier (Tier 2?); For Airborne, I like the idea of reducing disembarkation time as they progress through the tiers, and I think they need to have a fixed embarkation time (5 minutes?) no matter how much of their previous disembarkation they've got through.
      Otherwise, I'd leave them all as they are.

      Special forces, I think, are ok as they are in terms of building requirements and combat stats/abilities, though I would heavily reduce their damage to civilians and heavily increase their damage to buildings (so you could use them on strategic sabotage missions). If you wanted to compensate for their high combat stats and special abilities, maybe their HP could be heavily reduced, to simulate the idea that they are operating in small squads rather than larger infantry formations?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by WalterChang ().

    • Colonel Waffles wrote:

      Opulon wrote:

      We can argue about boosting infantry, especially naval and airborn (why not), but Special Forces ? They are already in nearly ALL meta builds of late due to their incredible ability and killing power. Their stack damage potential is EQUIVALENT TO A ICBM, for god'sake, why do you want more firepower with it ? XD. It's already a insanely powerful unit.


      Really, a big no to that suggestion about the special forces. If anything, because your suggestion makes "null and void" any attempt to make other infantry better.

      We are talking (in your suggestion) about a high dps unit good against BOTH soft and armored, with ludicrously high value in "most terrains", ignoring ANY kind of entrenchment bonus on the other side, STEALTH, with the ability to fly beyond the range of other helicopter, and similar to what planes do.

      And it requires military base lvl 2. Lvl 2 XD

      Why would anyone do ANYTHING but special forces by the hundred, and a few National guards to take the empty territory ? (it's already a bit the case, not gonna lie)

      And i won't even comment on the project to give them a RANGED attack. STEALTH ARTILLERY.


      Sorry if i sound hysterical, but it's (in my mind) like if you just suggested to Buff the MRL by giving them 150 range, and +25% damage in plains and forest , or if the ASF """"needed""" to have more speed.


      ==============

      Mechanised infantry with a base lvl 1, "why not", but it really nerfes directly the NG and The motorised infantry, as the role of infantry is less to deal damage than to "endure them". If i can have mech inf with military base 1, it defeats a bit the purpose of the mech inf being a "elite" infantry, and the motorised infantry becomes way less interesting


      Mortars for Naval Infantry would actually make sense (much more than motorised) because Naval is supposedly the "offensive city stormer unit".


      Airborn, i'm not sure i agree with "this" specific suggestion, but i agree that they should be buffed in someway, because they fail to find their place as a contextual and specialised unit. Anything they do, Special forces does 5 times better anyway. Except taking territory.
      I did not suggest Spec Ops to get mortars. That is only for naval inf
      I did not think Spec Ops was as powerful as you say. I have always dismissed them as a cool unit that might be handy sometimes but for the most part is not as useful as others. I will definitely need to try them more
      if you're in an active coalition that can protect you early game and you go the special ops route you will be mvp leading every invasion. They can be the trump card in wars where you are heavily out numbered and out powered. I've only ever really used it once and didn't start research till day 40ish. Started using them day 50ish and game was done day 60ish
    • Kalrakh wrote:

      Airborne are super fast for conquering stuff and they are also great unit, if you have excess comps
      and access time to check every 3hours were they are and give them new orders...not like national guard were you give them the order to to the siberia walk from europe to asia for the next 8 days...
      Alle sagten: Das geht nicht. Dann kam einer, der wusste das nicht und hat es einfach gemacht.
    • kurtvonstein wrote:

      Kalrakh wrote:

      Airborne are super fast for conquering stuff and they are also great unit, if you have excess comps
      and access time to check every 3hours were they are and give them new orders...not like national guard were you give them the order to to the siberia walk from europe to asia for the next 8 days...
      All 'air' units require high activity in the end :)