Let's Discuss "Piercing the AA Bubble" Again

    This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

    • Hmm...when I say "point defense" in my statements above, I'm talking about the defensive fire that happens when the AA unit is directly attacked. The one that never needs the 10 minute reload time.

      So, as I understand this thread, I can do a patrol attack against an AA unit, and the only damage I will take will come from the scheduled offensive tick. Is this true?
    • Blitzkrieger64 wrote:

      The following are all statements I believe to be true after studying this thread and the recent thread on stacking. I have done my best to be precise with my words. If any of these statements below are false, please let me know.

      All stacks within range 2 of an attacked stack will have the full force of the attack applied to them also.

      If a Strike Fighter directly (not patrol) attacks a stack that is within range 2 of AA units, the AA units will suffer the full force of the attack also (as above). The strikers will only suffer point-defense of the main target, but will trigger defensive attack from the second.

      If, in the same situation, the Strike Fighter used a patrol attack covering both stacks, both stacks would suffer full damage and point defense of the all targets would be triggered, but no defensive attack.

      If an AA unit is attacked with a patrol attack, point defense will trigger. The aircraft will only be hit by the scheduled offensive tick, if still in range.

      If a unit within friendly AA range (not the AA itself) is directly (not patrol) attacked while not reloading, the AA will fire, going into reload and skipping next swipe.

      If a unit within friendly AA range is attacked with a patrol attack, the AA will NOT fire (reload will not be triggered), unless the aircraft just happens to get caught in the swipe.

      ASF will not defend ground units from enemy air attack when patrolling over them.
      I fixed your statements a bit :)
    • Ah, we're getting close to making me a competent challenge player! I ALMOST understand the deep things of AA now. Thanks again to all. Just a couple clarifications:

      In the following true statement by Kalrakh, the term "defensive attack" is used. Is this the AA attack that triggers reload and causes the next scheduled "swipe" to be missed?

      "If a Strike Fighter directly (not patrol) attacks a stack that is within range 2 of AA units, the AA units will suffer the full force of the attack also (as above). The strikers will only suffer point-defense of the main target, but will trigger defensive attack from the second."
      ___________________________________________________________________________________________

      Is the following statement a good understanding of the term "Point Defense"?

      All ground units possess a point defense against air attack. The value of that defense could be zero (MBT). Point defense is ALMOST always triggered by air attacks of any type. One exception to this is when an AA unit is very close (within 2) to a ground unit that is directly attacked. In this case, the AA ranged defense (reload and missed swipe) will trigger, rather than the AA's point defense, even though the AA is subject to full damage from the attack.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Blitzkrieger64 ().

    • there is no incident where Point def doesn't triggered. because there is no such thing as "triggered"
      it is simply that

      Unit A attack unit B
      Unit B apply defense stats to Unit A

      only method to skip the second line of logic is to use range attack such as artillery, naval and AA
      (to expand on the 'AA', aircraft doesn't apply defense stats to AA when being fire on)
      This post was made by Leader of the Church of ROAD
    • You said, "there is no incident where Point def doesn't triggered. because there is no such thing as "triggered"

      I understand this. However, there is a situation where AA units can suffer full damage from air units
      , and NOT apply their point defense. Consider the following Kalrakh statement:

      "If a Strike Fighter directly (not patrol) attacks a stack that is within range 2 of AA units, the AA units will suffer the full force of the attack also. The strikers will only suffer point-defense of the main target, but will trigger defensive attack from the second.

      The second part of this statement could be very important. If I understand it correctly, the attacker has just triggered reload, and another wing could come in right behind the first. No point defense, and no ranged defense.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Blitzkrieger64 ().

    • Blitzkrieger64 wrote:

      You said, "there is no incident where Point def doesn't triggered. because there is no such thing as "triggered"

      I understand this. However, there is a situation where AA units can suffer full damage from air attack, and NOT apply their point defense. Consider the following Kalrakh statement:

      "If a Strike Fighter directly (not patrol) attacks a stack that is within range 2 of AA units, the AA units will suffer the full force of the attack also. The strikers will only suffer point-defense of the main target, but will trigger defensive attack from the second.

      The second part of this statement could be very important. If I understand it correctly, the attacker has just triggered reload, and another wing could come in right behind the first. No point defense, and no ranged defense.
      No, no, no, ...

      Look at it this way. If something with point defense is attacked, there is point defense.

      direct attack - point defense
      patrol attack - point defense
      steal his pizza - point defense
      say there might not be point defense - point defense

      you get the idea
      *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***

      The "Get off my lawn!" cranky CoN Forums Poster - not affiliated with Dorado in any way


      "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD
    • But in this statement, the AA is not attacked, it just suffers full damage because it is too close to the unit that IS attacked. To repeat, the AA in this statement is NOT attacked. It just suffers damage anyway, due to close proximity to a directly attacked unit. The Kalrakh statement again:

      "If a Strike Fighter directly (not patrol) attacks a stack that is within range 2 of AA units, the AA units will suffer the full force of the attack also. The strikers will only suffer point-defense of the main target, but will trigger defensive attack from the second.

      The real question here is: How is Kalrakh defining "defensive attack" in the statement above?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Blitzkrieger64 ().

    • For better clarification:

      Striker stack (S) attacks mixed ground stack (A), while mixed ground stack (B) is close bye (splash damage range)

      S does attack damage to A
      A uses point defense against S
      A does not use its attack to defend itself, because this feature got removed
      A there does not go into reload and can do its next swipe

      B suffers splash damage from S, because too close to A
      B can't use point defense against S, because not attacked itself
      B uses its attack to help defend A, dealing offensive damage to S and going into reload
      B will miss next "swipe" because of reload
    • theory is briliant know it but if is broken how game work in basic .... is this only by anti air car and frigate and cruiser and still this unit have somnetime bugs ... all other anti air unit is how it saz without insult owner ow code .. broken by point to make much more better game for mobile user and make so much best posibilitz in grafic and nottice when some civilian go on toilet and make there another civilian that must make it realz player with vant enjoy game so much happy


      thanks gods after another 3 update somebody make rework on plane and hop interact with enemy ship and transport again just seriously

      is this normal ?

      prnt.sc/20x2kxz and not respond any nothing after im realy suprised that somebody work on seriously problem in game if team is probably lost in space much more than Sputnik

      yes it is ironic but realz this highest level discusion about how unit work sometime make me funnz if i know that is so manz bugs that much more important is know what and witch situation unit not do what normaly may do it

      seriouslz in vikipedia be better make informacion about what doesnt work proprely almost years than info what unit do becose if user isnt be noob or 5 years kid probablz know what unit may be do ...
    • Kalrakh wrote:

      For better clarification:

      Striker stack (S) attacks mixed ground stack (A), while mixed ground stack (B) is close bye (splash damage range)

      S does attack damage to A
      A uses point defense against S
      A does not use its attack to defend itself, because this feature got removed
      A there does not go into reload and can do its next swipe

      B suffers splash damage from S, because too close to A
      B can't use point defense against S, because not attacked itself
      B uses its attack to help defend A, dealing offensive damage to S and going into reload
      B will miss next "swipe" because of reload
      This is exactly how I understood your correction of my list of "true" statements! I've got it now! With just a little in-game practice I will be an AA Bubble Piercing Wizard! Also, this thread is now the best thread on this forum for understanding AA units. It should be pinned to an FAQ or something. Thanks again to all who contributed! Oh, and if we ever meet in battle, leave your AA at home. I would crush it, and anything it tries to protect. :D

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Blitzkrieger64 ().