Grounded planes (not ground-transports) in Melee combat

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    • Grounded planes (not ground-transports) in Melee combat

      Folks - This comes up periodically on Discord - I would like to hear an answer from someone with true expertise/authority

      Here's the set-up:
      Planes/Helicopters/UAVs can fly.
      Planes/Helicopters/UAVs can sit on the ground refueling
      Planes/Helicopters/UAVs can sit on the ground awaiting for their next mission
      Planes/Helicopters/UAVs can turn into ground-transports
      Planes/Helicopters/UAVs can turn into naval-transports

      For this question planes that are flying aren't part of the question, and I'm going to ignore naval-transport condition.

      Here's the question(s):
      For the remaining three situations, if the plane is attacked, what are the plane's attack & defense (vs soft, hard, fixed, helo, etc.), and HP stats?

      For example, would a refueling, non-ground-transport, Eastern Doctrine, TU-160, White Swan, heavy bomber fighting a Motorized Infantry have 12 (soft) attack, 0 Defense, and 15 (or 29?) HP? Or some other values?
      Does refueling vs waiting have any effect on planes' melee combat behavior?
      What about if the plane becomes a Ground Transport?

      The 12/0/15 values for a refueling would be consistent with the unit's description, but those don't seem to line up well with the behavior my intuition predicts the game-designers would want.
    • GeneralLangmoen wrote:

      0,5 attack, 0,5 defense and 15 health.
      Thanks, and . . .

      You're saying that any plane, while refueling, while waiting for a mission, or while moving as a ground-transport unit (all three situations) will have 0.5 Attack, 0.5 Defense, and 15 HP?

      That is very different from what some other people say.

      So that I/we can refute other claims when they arise, can you refer us to anything that confirms those (0.5, 0.5, 15) are the right values?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by KFGauss ().

    • If defend value is 0 against soft/hard than it is exactly 0 when defending on the ground. If it says 15hp on ground, than exactly 15hp has on ground. Meaning any ground based unit will kill it in melee fight without taking any damage. How long the fight will take is to attack value of ground attacking unit.
      If on air then plane can't defend against ground units as well but also cannot be attacked by ground forces. Except AA.

      On the other hand grounded plane will defend against other plains even if grounded because it has defensive value against air units. But will have lower hp when on ground. Meaning effectively grounded planes will take more damage quickly but will defend.
    • Zemunelo wrote:

      If defend value is 0 against soft/hard than it is exactly 0 when defending on the ground. If it says 15hp on ground, than exactly 15hp has on ground. Meaning any ground based unit will kill it in melee fight without taking any damage. How long the fight will take is to attack value of ground attacking unit.
      If on air then plane can't defend against ground units as well but also cannot be attacked by ground forces. Except AA.

      On the other hand grounded plane will defend against other plains even if grounded because it has defensive value against air units. But will have lower hp when on ground. Meaning effectively grounded planes will take more damage quickly but will defend.
      No, planes on the ground have special combat values not described in their info sheet

      Also they are a bit buggy and sometimes fight on the ground like they are in air
    • My first game I thought "I'm going to attack the plane on the ground and destroy it right away!"... you know, thinking that it's like real life.... nope. It took forever...
      My starter ASF took damage but not at an air-to-air rate.
      Just thought I'd share...
      Should grounded planes ever take damage like they are still planes, I hope there is an announcement.
    • Colonel Waffles wrote:

      From my experience a plane’s landed stats are very similar, if not the same to their flight stats. They can completely destroy attacking units if they are strong enough. I am curious about attacking ASF though: If a landed ASF is a soft target, and enemy ASF hits it, will the landed ASF obliterate the enemy while only taking 2.0 damage?
      Seems to permanently bugged atm
    • Smallsword wrote:

      My first game I thought "I'm going to attack the plane on the ground and destroy it right away!"... you know, thinking that it's like real life.... nope. It took forever...
      My starter ASF took damage but not at an air-to-air rate.
      Just thought I'd share...
      Should grounded planes ever take damage like they are still planes, I hope there is an announcement.
      In theory grounded ASF would be able to defend against attacking ASF at a reduced effectiveness, as the scramble and defend their airfield

      There’s no reason for them to be able to defend against an infantry unit that has converged on their airbase. What are they doing? Pointing their plane’s guns at them? Fighting them off with handguns?
      Yee Haw
    • Colonel Waffles wrote:

      Smallsword wrote:

      My first game I thought "I'm going to attack the plane on the ground and destroy it right away!"... you know, thinking that it's like real life.... nope. It took forever...
      My starter ASF took damage but not at an air-to-air rate.
      Just thought I'd share...
      Should grounded planes ever take damage like they are still planes, I hope there is an announcement.
      In theory grounded ASF would be able to defend against attacking ASF at a reduced effectiveness, as the scramble and defend their airfield
      There’s no reason for them to be able to defend against an infantry unit that has converged on their airbase. What are they doing? Pointing their plane’s guns at them? Fighting them off with handguns?
      Right, I was confused over a few things my first game... I thought an airborne plane attacking a plane on the ground was going to be an instant kill and my plane would take no damage...usually planes on the ground don't have pilots in them... I thought if my troops caught a plane on the ground I might capture it and have another plane to command... was pretty surprised when it fought my troops... Then when it was fighting my troops I was confused because a plane has some serious firepower and it didn't hurt my troops much...

      I've understood the system well enough since then... what's interesting to me is how airbases don't tend to survive as well with a plane grounded... I guess because there are more combat ticks.

      I've had situations when the grounded planes delay the capture of the city long enough for enemy reinforcements to arrive... so they aren't totally useless for a defending player.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Smallsword ().

    • Tom_Cruise wrote:

      Has anything been established yet with concrete evidence?

      I had a grounded jet destroy my NG unit! 8o

      I was monitoring the battle and iirc the damage it (western doc ASF) was inflicting was in the region of 0.9 to 1.2 each time.
      here you have something concrete
      Files
      I am The Baseline for opinions
    • Past game I was flying into a partners airbase in occupied city; I didn't notice morale and it popped Insurgent as i landed. was surprised my 5 planes ended up beating the insurgent and only took like 2 or 3 hrs so must have been close to 1 hp per plane ; of course that airfield was now below 4/10 so then had to drive 6 hrs to next airfield and I didn't loose any.

      Interesting though as if grounded planes in city they dont count towards unit strength when look at morale and insurgent pct.
      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp
    • kurtvonstein wrote:

      grounded planes is a horror. Especially if you have real ground units in the city. You ger the stacking penalty rwsumting in ultra high casualties on you grounded planes

      Yes, i has faced this event.

      5x SF jets vs 3x CRV and 1x motor infantry unit.

      Result: SF jets win.

      Next time i not make same mistake. Next time i use AA-units.
      Guns are always loaded.