useless AWACS

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    • Mobile Radar: sees low ground signatures and high aircraft signatures
      Awac: sees low aircraft signatures and high ground signatures

      Frankly everything is working as intended tho i dont really understand where this confusion is coming from since the changes to radar mechanics have been quite some time ago.

      What awacs are for? well ground radar will stop beeing able to see aircraft once they gain a low signature ( i know its T3 for asf and sf; not sure if other aircraft gain low signature later on) and helis have a low signature to begin with.
      And all of that isnt even mentioning how stupidly mobile having a flying radar is; okay it cant spot inf but eh so what
      I am The Baseline for opinions

    • It's for spotting air units. I agree it needs to be able to see low sig ground units at tier 4 to be useful.

      At tier 4 it can currently see:
      Ground: High
      Naval: High
      Fixed: High
      Rotary: Low

      Low sig ground is mostly infantry, it's main perk seems to be low sig rotary which is all the helo's. But you rarely have trouble spotting helo's... The game is very friendly letting you spot enemy air units in your territory so the benefits of the awacs are minimal and compared to the costs of ground radar it's not a good value. The ground radar also needs less prereqs to build and will be harder for the enemy to kill in most cases...and the AWACS needs a lvl 4 airbase?!
      The roles of these units, ground radar and Awacs need to be reversed. How is ground radar even able to see ground targets far away? There are hills and mountains and crap. Let the awacs do this let the ground radar be the one that leaves you with some holes in your defenses.

    • Tumbler wrote:

      It's for spotting air units. I agree it needs to be able to see low sig ground units at tier 4 to be useful.

      At tier 4 it can currently see:
      Ground: High
      Naval: High
      Fixed: High
      Rotary: Low

      Low sig ground is mostly infantry, it's main perk seems to be low sig rotary which is all the helo's. But you rarely have trouble spotting helo's... The game is very friendly letting you spot enemy air units in your territory so the benefits of the awacs are minimal and compared to the costs of ground radar it's not a good value. The ground radar also needs less prereqs to build and will be harder for the enemy to kill in most cases...and the AWACS needs a lvl 4 airbase?!
      The roles of these units, ground radar and Awacs need to be reversed. How is ground radar even able to see ground targets far away? There are hills and mountains and crap. Let the awacs do this let the ground radar be the one that leaves you with some holes in your defenses.
      - low signature is not exclusive to heli; its also a thing for airassaulting specops; tier 3 sf and tier 3 asf
      - really any competent player will avoid entering your territory with his aircraft for exactly that reason and frankly its not even that hard with how big the patrol area is
      I am The Baseline for opinions

    • _wielebny_ wrote:

      level 5 mobile radar - sees everything - land forces and invisible planes and planes, cannot see shipsshipsAWACS- Level 6 sees planes, and nothing elseit is useless
      All of that is within sightrange tho and you’re either ignorant or purposefully misrepresenting the facts

      There is an enormous difference between sightrange and radar range

      Both Awac and ground radar have the „scout“ ability, enabling them to see every (nonstealth) units within their sightrange
      on top of that ground radar has the ability to reveal stealth of aircraft and ground units (note that stealth and low signature are completely different things)
      awac can only see stealthed aircraft and not stealthed aircraft

      but frankly; the ability to see stuff within sightrange is borderline redundant for radars because you really dont want them that close to the enemy to begin with
      I am The Baseline for opinions

    • _wielebny_ wrote:

      level 5 mobile radar - sees everything - land forces and invisible planes and planes, cannot see shipsshipsAWACS- Level 6 sees planes, and nothing elseit is useless
      You should first read and understand what Teburu writes, neither AWACS nor mobile radar can detect everything

      only mobile radar can detect low signature ground units like infantry
      only AWACS can detect low signature air units like choppers and high level ASF and strikers
      neither unit can detect subs

      Yes, NPA can attack ships, but AWACS have a much bigger sight range making it easier to overview a huge area
      also after an attack NPA needs to refuel, so you lose all 'sight' in that area aswell

    • Teburu wrote:

      Tumbler wrote:

      - low signature is not exclusive to heli; its also a thing for airassaulting specops; tier 3 sf and tier 3 asf
      - really any competent player will avoid entering your territory with his aircraft for exactly that reason and frankly its not even that hard with how big the patrol area is

      Aren't those all helo's? I don't think I've ever tested the air assaulting helo's since but I assume since they are helo's or helo like units they have the same low rotary signature?

      What are Tier 3 SF and Tier 3 ASF? Are you talking about low sig ground? Or low sign rotary? Infantry units, all of them, are low Ground. So the Awacs will never see these units. They will see all the armor and support targets though. (plus most air) Shouldn't see drones unless in sight range or helo's unless upgraded.

      The second point, Well air units not attacking you aren't a big problem...and you'll see them with ground radar so I'm not sure what your point is. You can put an awacs on the border and see targets without being detected easier with an AWACS? In my experience the range isn't that great and you will likely have to move it into danger to use it so you'll want fighters escorting it. Plus leaving air patroling as a defensive measure is just asking to lose them. So are you thinking before invading you'd move the awacs in to see what air forces are in the area? Ground radar you can put in a large block of troops and just keep it with yout and the range is close to the awacs and less expensive to upgrade.

    • Tumbler wrote:

      Teburu wrote:

      Tumbler wrote:

      - low signature is not exclusive to heli; its also a thing for airassaulting specops; tier 3 sf and tier 3 asf
      - really any competent player will avoid entering your territory with his aircraft for exactly that reason and frankly its not even that hard with how big the patrol area is

      Aren't those all helo's? I don't think I've ever tested the air assaulting helo's since but I assume since they are helo's or helo like units they have the same low rotary signature?
      What are Tier 3 SF and Tier 3 ASF? Are you talking about low sig ground? Or low sign rotary? Infantry units, all of them, are low Ground. So the Awacs will never see these units. They will see all the armor and support targets though. (plus most air) Shouldn't see drones unless in sight range or helo's unless upgraded.

      The second point, Well air units not attacking you aren't a big problem...and you'll see them with ground radar so I'm not sure what your point is. You can put an awacs on the border and see targets without being detected easier with an AWACS? In my experience the range isn't that great and you will likely have to move it into danger to use it so you'll want fighters escorting it. Plus leaving air patroling as a defensive measure is just asking to lose them. So are you thinking before invading you'd move the awacs in to see what air forces are in the area? Ground radar you can put in a large block of troops and just keep it with yout and the range is close to the awacs and less expensive to upgrade.
      - Tier = a unit changes model
      eg lvl 4 Asf would be T2 because its the second model; and on Tier 3 asf and sf get a low fixed wing signature
      - specops having a heli signature while airassaulting is a special case because they’re invisible
      - my entire point is that you dont need to fly over enemy territory to attack their units if they’re close enough to the border to get targeted by the patrol radius; frankly with aircraft you dont really want to leave your own borders to begin with because it just gives the other guy a free target + free intel
      I am The Baseline for opinions

    • guess what the level 6 AWACS sees and what the level 3 mobile radar sees

      fotosik.pl/zdjecie/2d793621622f5679

      fotosik.pl/zdjecie/3927cdaa117b750d

      and the first tier infantry is standing there.if AWACS doesn't see it, it's useless

      What signatures are you talking about for level 1 units, since level 6 AWACS cannot see them?

      fotosik.pl/zdjecie/ad2709f6e52005a3

      Why do I need AWACS- who can't see simple first-level units? what electronics does he have?it is useless

      The post was edited 3 times, last by _wielebny_ ().

    • _wielebny_ wrote:

      guess what the level 6 AWACS sees and what the level 3 mobile radar sees

      fotosik.pl/zdjecie/2d793621622f5679

      fotosik.pl/zdjecie/3927cdaa117b750d

      and the first tier infantry is standing there.if AWACS doesn't see it, it's useless

      What signatures are you talking about for level 1 units, since level 6 AWACS cannot see them?

      fotosik.pl/zdjecie/ad2709f6e52005a3

      Why do I need AWACS- who can't see simple first-level units? what electronics does he have?it is useless
      If the enemy had tons of high-level ASF patrolling the skies you would quickly reconsider your take on AWACS.

    • I use AWACs for ocean patrols, mostly so that I get decent warning of approaching ships, but also of approaching aircraft. You don't get much time to react to approaching aircraft anyway, so its utility is lesser for that than it is for ships.

      You could use your own ships (or submarines) to do this, but AWACS gives you much larger area coverage for a much lower cost. Ships are also vulnerable to being attacked by the incoming enemy navy (because they use the same travel routes), whereas AWACS can be positioned between the sea-route lines where they are much less vulnerable.

      That's why I use them. I don't think there's another unit that gives you the level of advanced warning capability for the same value in terms of resource cost.

    • _wielebny_ wrote:

      guess what the level 6 AWACS sees and what the level 3 mobile radar sees

      fotosik.pl/zdjecie/2d793621622f5679

      fotosik.pl/zdjecie/3927cdaa117b750d

      and the first tier infantry is standing there.if AWACS doesn't see it, it's useless

      What signatures are you talking about for level 1 units, since level 6 AWACS cannot see them?

      fotosik.pl/zdjecie/ad2709f6e52005a3

      Why do I need AWACS- who can't see simple first-level units? what electronics does he have?it is useless
      If you do not understand the job of an AWACS, the issue is maybe on your side.

    • Awacs is useless.


      Sometimes i really wonder how much one would need to buff a unit to manage to at last get to a point where nobody complain it's useless anymore.

      Radar range is usueless, how about 600 visual range.
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.