Make Previous Season Elite Units Available For Purchase

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    • Make Previous Season Elite Units Available For Purchase

      I understand rewarding longtime subscribers of CON but as the game progresses this becomes increasingly unfair. I suggest to make certain, some or all Elite units available somehow for purchase with maybe a caveat being that you have to have had a SC membership for a certain amount of time before eligible... certain in game rank... who knows.


      Has this idea been tossed around before?
      CDR Crimson
      Founder of The Militia Collective

      Training and Screening Hub, New Players or Existing: Come Find your perfect Alliance here!

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    • Most of the elite units are... decent at best. Yes, the MBT is mighty fine... IF you use the EU one... thats the one with anti-air and missile defence. Quite good too at max level.
      The Railgun is a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none and need a radar to be most effective, Elite bomber is probably (in my opinion ofcourse) the best of the bunch, mainly because of the ballistic missile capabilites and range (I dont bomb with them, I rain down missiles with them)
      Live as I learn, not as I live
    • TheGENOC1D3R wrote:

      Its curious coz in the whole year I have been playing I have never encounter a single player who uses elite units, for the only exception of the elite bomber. That said, I agree with the purshace thing, or at least any other way of getting them that rsults more practical that the current one. And yes, I also would love to have avalibe the elite MBT
      I haven't run into it either... yet. But I dread the day that I do.

      Not only do the Players who have played this game for years have a massive advantage with experience, but superior units as well. This will cause newer members who DO run into it to get frustrated and the player base will stagnate over time due to this.
      Maybe not yet but certainly the more season exclusive drops that happen, the harder it is to get a foot in the game to want to play it consistently.
      CDR Crimson
      Founder of The Militia Collective

      Training and Screening Hub, New Players or Existing: Come Find your perfect Alliance here!

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    • axxis32 wrote:

      Most of the elite units are... decent at best. Yes, the MBT is mighty fine... IF you use the EU one... that's the one with anti-air and missile defense. Quite good too at max level.
      The Railgun is a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none and need a radar to be most effective, Elite bomber is probably (in my opinion of course) the best of the bunch, mainly because of the ballistic missile capabilities and range (I don't bomb with them, I rain down missiles with them)
      I don't know, from what I have heard so far about them they are pretty hard to destroy or counter due to them being a jack of all trades.
      And maybe each unit is only slightly better than the rest.
      However, consider the fact that 7 exclusive units at lets say are only an advantage of 10-15%. By season 7 that small cumulative gain has now stacked, so that a player who is new same skill facing a player with all season units now has a army twice as good as yours and there is nothing you could do about it currently.
      CDR Crimson
      Founder of The Militia Collective

      Training and Screening Hub, New Players or Existing: Come Find your perfect Alliance here!

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    • Feel like you’re overestimating the actual impacts elite units have, them being (usually) heavily specialized and only available in very limited amounts means that they’re more equal to the cherry on top rather than the heavy hitter of an army. (and lets be honest, out of the 7 units introduced barely 4 are actually worth the investment)
      Personally I think that they might chance the way to gain units from a previous season once they’re over a certain amount simply because of the sheet mass of units there are.
      But expecting seasonal units to be available without SC is IMO pretty unrealistic; from what i can tell a pretty major point is to provide more incentive to get premium.
      I am The Baseline for opinions
    • Teburu wrote:

      Feel like you’re overestimating the actual impacts elite units have, them being (usually) heavily specialized and only available in very limited amounts means that they’re more equal to the cherry on top rather than the heavy hitter of an army. (and lets be honest, out of the 7 units introduced barely 4 are actually worth the investment)
      Personally I think that they might chance the way to gain units from a previous season once they’re over a certain amount simply because of the sheet mass of units there are.
      But expecting seasonal units to be available without SC is IMO pretty unrealistic; from what i can tell a pretty major point is to provide more incentive to get premium.
      I agree, which is why I mentioned the caveat of having to have a SC membership for certain amount of time before this was made available. If people can gold rush supplies in games, why is it any different of a concept to allow people to gold special units? This is arguably MORE FAIR in every way, even if the individuals units aren't THAT great.

      IMO I think you are undervaluing the true value of having 7 different highly specialized units. Combine that with their longer experience in the game and new players don't even stand a chance.

      I agree with you that as more are added that the likelihood of this being added increases.
      CDR Crimson
      Founder of The Militia Collective

      Training and Screening Hub, New Players or Existing: Come Find your perfect Alliance here!

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    • Maybe this like getting hit by an asteroid, or maybe lightning? If when it happens, it's a bad day; but it almost never happens?

      Maybe the way to gauge the importance of this is to ask around and find out how often folks with lots of games under their belts feel like an opponent has relied heavily on an elite unit, or fell like an elite unit has played an important role in a games outcome. Their answer could include their own elite units, or an opponents'.

      I can start. In my limited experience, one person I played with loved his original railguns before they we weakened, and he used them to great effect in every game. Now that they have been weakened, he still likes them and they are important, but they are incremental improvement in his OOB, not an overpowering improvement.

      Other than him, in my games, I haven't encountered important elite units. One other player used a couple of elite bombers to fire (MR)BMs, but that game was won by our coalition regardless.
    • Last game Russia had 4 or 5 different types of elite units and unfair advantage (especially that damn railgun). Agree cant just keep adding and adding.

      But most units really not that great when break them down. I am not a big AA or MRL or Tank guy but railgun 3 units in 1 and would consider that.

      S1 - Main Battle Tank 10 soft - 12 hard - 55 hp cost 2350 C 1200 E 1800 M (army 3 - add all those costs to 1st unit) vs 8 soft - 9 hard - 45 hp cost 1800 C 800 E 1700 M

      dont build tanks but Would argue better of non elite as can produce 1.5 tanks for cost of 1 elite and only 25 pct better. Not to mention need Army 3 thats probably 3 MBTs vs 1 Elite MBT

      S2 - Elite attack Chopper 25 hp 4/10/1/4/2.5 damage cost 1075 C / 1125 E / 4200 M (AB3) vs 20 hp 2.5/7/0/4/1.5 damage cost 900 C / 750 E / 3000 M

      A little better like 33 pct but costs higher and AB3 vs AB2 still behind curve.

      Look at opportunity costs of what else could build/research. Assume similiar for Elite Sub and Bomber

      Seasons with Unique units (Railgun is just a beast). UVA Swarm isnt worth 50 cents and anyone who ever built one would never build again. that UGV thing basically a cooler RCV but at 3 times cost of swarm; but deployable with very few units.

      So looking at stats seems Gold buyers only ones who may use to have a cool toy and/or something to play with 1 game.

      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp
    • Buckeyechamp wrote:

      Last game Russia had 4 or 5 different types of elite units and unfair advantage (especially that damn railgun). Agree cant just keep adding and adding.

      But most units really not that great when break them down. I am not a big AA or MRL or Tank guy but railgun 3 units in 1 and would consider that.

      S1 - Main Battle Tank 10 soft - 12 hard - 55 hp cost 2350 C 1200 E 1800 M (army 3 - add all those costs to 1st unit) vs 8 soft - 9 hard - 45 hp cost 1800 C 800 E 1700 M

      dont build tanks but Would argue better of non elite as can produce 1.5 tanks for cost of 1 elite and only 25 pct better. Not to mention need Army 3 thats probably 3 MBTs vs 1 Elite MBT

      S2 - Elite attack Chopper 25 hp 4/10/1/4/2.5 damage cost 1075 C / 1125 E / 4200 M (AB3) vs 20 hp 2.5/7/0/4/1.5 damage cost 900 C / 750 E / 3000 M

      A little better like 33 pct but costs higher and AB3 vs AB2 still behind curve.

      Look at opportunity costs of what else could build/research. Assume similiar for Elite Sub and Bomber

      Seasons with Unique units (Railgun is just a beast). UVA Swarm isnt worth 50 cents and anyone who ever built one would never build again. that UGV thing basically a cooler RCV but at 3 times cost of swarm; but deployable with very few units.

      So looking at stats seems Gold buyers only ones who may use to have a cool toy and/or something to play with 1 game.
      Well, depends on the which doctrine you have on that elite tank. Like I mention the EU one is good, atleast when maxed out (has air, heli and missile defence...)
      Live as I learn, not as I live
    • I 100% disagree with the main statement. There are two main reasons: Usage of gold and Exclusivity of units.

      Currently, gold usage is on a per game basis. If someone uses a large sum of gold in a game you are in it is easy enough to just accept a loss and archive the game or put effort into being a thorn in someone's side but knowing you won't win. Security council gives a signifigant boost to a player in general, but all of the perks it provides are easily balanced by someone just being very active. The only main difference is security council allows for season units, which I am getting to below. If you allowed people who are new to the game to spend money to buy units which will help them in all their games it will only further increase the pay to win aspect of this game, and it will disrespect the loyal suporters who have been here with CoN for a long time.

      Making the only way to get elite units being time is great. These units are better than normal units, but not too powerful and most have a compatible normal unit*. It rewards the loyal supporters of CoN by giving them something they can use which is fun and different, but also doesn't break the game. And it also does not require a signifigant investment to get these. I do not have an income, so I do not have a signifigant amount of disposable money but I have been able to buy SC annually since not long after I started playing. Also, these units being rare is quite nice. If everyone was able to get them, they would be signifigantly less valuable and the comparable non-elite units would be basically pointless. Imagine if mostly everyone who likes to use helicopters paid to use elite helis, the normal attack helis would be rendered close to useless. Same with elite mbts, and any new elite units we may get that have a comparable unit (And I have significant reason to believe we will be getting one like this for S8).

      As a player who started playing CoN during Season 3 and got security council soon after joining, I am very qualified to talk on the topic of how useful elite units are because I have all of them. In competitve gameplay, I would only ever use two of the seven units which I have. The elite tank has the same problems as all tanks; it is easily countered by ranged units**. The elite helis are quite nice, and I agree with Kalrakh's message earlier in this thread stating it is the best unit in the game; which it is, but it can still be countered if someone actually looks into it. The subs are good, but they are balanced by their range; any naval unit in the game can outrange them as long as you have a different unit to spot it. Railguns are also balanced by their range, being that MA and MRLs both have larger ranges. Elite bombers are practically useless as a normal unit because they have basically the same stats as a regular bomber and only have the added ability of dropping ballistic missiles. UGVs are too weak to do anything except scout. And I don't think anyone really liked the Swarm UAV; I have never used it, it seems interesting but much too easily countered by any aa.


      *The only ones which do not are elite subs and railguns; I have rarely met these units in games outside of the season in which they were unlockable. When I have, they have not provided a signifigant change in the outcome of the game. They have been annoying to deal with, yes. But what the person was accomplishing by using them could have also been accomplished (perhaps even better) by other units which are not exclusive.
      **Yes I have gotten a stack of tanks to a speed of over 9, which is fast enough to close on basically any unit in the game. However this was in very idealised environment (for details contact me on the CoN Discord, my name is just "[SIN]Ryguy"). For practical purposes the speed would not be this insane, and it would still be counterable. With a little extra difficulty? Yes, for sure. But it is not overpowered. Any moderately experienced player could counter it well.
    • 575-Kranzegrad wrote:

      I have better suggest. Repeat Elite Seasons 1st to 7th.
      I think I have a better solution (more on this at the end of the post), repeating seasons again would just make the problem appear again a few seasons from now, what´s the problem? that many people joined CON late, because they didn´t know the game existed, and they didn´t even have a chance to get the previous elite units, to me that´s not fair, In my case, I joined CON in season 7, luckily I was able to get the elite bomber.

      Some people are arguing that elite units are not that useful, because blabla bla, I disagree, I think that they can be extremely powerful if you understand what their role is, for example, there are 2 advantages of having the elite MBT that nobody has talked about, 1, is that if you mix the elite MBT with regular MBT, the stack becomes much more durable due to unit mixing, the second advantage is that you can actually use MBTs without researching them, you can research the tank destroyer, or the armored fighting vehicle, and then research the elite MBT, in my opinion, this is huge. You can, for example, have 10 elite choppers, without even researching the normal choppers, saving so much doe on research, and you still get 10 ultra powerful helicopters that can be more than enough if you are just planning to use them for SEAD missions (suppression of enemy air defenses) instead of having to research the whole attack heli tech tree. Another example of an OP unit is the tactical bomber, some people say that they are not that good because the stats are not that impressive, but you missed the point, you don´t say the ballistic submarine is bad because of bad stats, at the end of the day it´s main role is to deliver BMs, just the fact that you can launch Bms from anywhere and not be detected is why ballistic subs are worth it, well, Elite bombers are just that but much, much better, you can literally go to anywhere in the map, they are extremely hard to pin down and you can even get them built 1 day before the ballistic sub gets built, (this is huge for games where you start with nukes).

      So in conclusion, Elite units are really good because they give you options and flexibility, (which translates to a tactical advantage) and they are usually cheap to research because they only have 3 levels, plus we haven't talked about how fucking cool they are.

      Then what is the possible solution to this madness? I have the perfect answer, and there are two ways of doing it.

      The first way is to leave things as they are, every new season you unlock the new unit, plus the unit from 2 seasons ago, the twist is that you will be able to unlock a third unit, every season, dorado will pick 3 random elite units, and you will be able to choose 1 to unlock, it could be the MBT, the elite sub, and the elite bomber, then the next season it could be the elite chopper, the elite sub again, and the railgun (I'm just giving an example), that way, it doesn´t matter when you join the game, you will always have a chance to unlock every elite unit if given enough time, and I think that this solution is perfect because it gives the opportunity to new players to unlock previous seasonal units, and it adds more incentive to get the premium pass, you could also make it that, In order to get a specific unit this way, it has had to pass 4 seasons since that unit first came, so you still have the incentive to get the new seasonal unit because you know that to get it again, you would have to wait 4 seasons, and you would have to wait for it to appear as one of the 3 random units, its a win win win situation for everybody, Dorado gets to make moar money (bigger incentive to buy premium) the new players have a chance of getting old elite units, and the whole system of the seasons doesn´t loose it´s purpose.

      The second way of doing this, in case the first way seems very op, is that, instead of unlocking 3 units every season, you would unlock just 2, you would get the new elite unit of the season, and, instead of getting the previous unit form 2 seasons ago, you would change the system just like I stated above, you would be able to pick between 3 random seasonal units. (but I prefer the first method).

      Ok, so what do you think guys? I think this is a beautiful and elegant solution that gives everyone what they need, don´t you think that this is worth mentioning to a dev? ?( :thumbsup:
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