Anti-ship Ballistic Missile

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    • Anti-ship Ballistic Missile

      Thoughts on a late tech upgrade for ballistic missiles that would allow them to target surface ships? Obviously the real world parallel would be the DF-21

      This would have to be balanced by an associated missile defense upgrade for frigates (and cruisers?).

      At the same time I would like to see something to make groups of cruise missiles more effective against ships.
    • HalfBakedHoser wrote:

      Thoughts on a late tech upgrade for ballistic missiles that would allow them to target surface ships? Obviously the real world parallel would be the DF-21

      This would have to be balanced by an associated missile defense upgrade for frigates (and cruisers?).

      At the same time I would like to see something to make groups of cruise missiles more effective against ships.
      " ... Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was Oh no, not again."
      *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***
      The KING of CoN News!!!
      The "Get off my lawn!" cranky CoN Forums Poster - not affiliated with Dorado in any way


      "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD
    • HalfBakedHoser wrote:

      I searched through the old posts before submitting this one and saw only one previous mention of such an ability. I think it would fill an important niche and make naval play more interesting. Currently I think there are not enough different ways to approach the naval fight. Basically its just down to who has more cruisers as I see it.
      Yes, it´s not dynamic enough. But I think they should try to do something with existing units (... aircraft carrier maybe? don't fix something that isn't broken, though) rather than adding more things although I think the post below

      Colonel Waffles wrote:

      For the groups of cruise missiles, I once suggested that the Cruise Missile Launcher could be able to stack 2 Cruise missiles together

      It would allow it to serve as a coastal defense against ships and heavy support for land units.
      would be better than what you are suggesting.
    • Clock wrote:

      HalfBakedHoser wrote:

      I searched through the old posts before submitting this one and saw only one previous mention of such an ability. I think it would fill an important niche and make naval play more interesting. Currently I think there are not enough different ways to approach the naval fight. Basically its just down to who has more cruisers as I see it.
      Yes, it´s not dynamic enough. But I think they should try to do something with existing units (... aircraft carrier maybe? don't fix something that isn't broken, though) rather than adding more things although I think the post below

      Colonel Waffles wrote:

      For the groups of cruise missiles, I once suggested that the Cruise Missile Launcher could be able to stack 2 Cruise missiles together

      It would allow it to serve as a coastal defense against ships and heavy support for land units.
      would be better than what you are suggesting.
      Thanks for the perspective. What do you think is the main drawback of something like what I suggested?
    • Dealer of Death wrote:

      HalfBakedHoser wrote:

      Thoughts on a late tech upgrade for ballistic missiles that would allow them to target surface ships? Obviously the real world parallel would be the DF-21

      This would have to be balanced by an associated missile defense upgrade for frigates (and cruisers?).

      At the same time I would like to see something to make groups of cruise missiles more effective against ships.
      " ... Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was Oh no, not again."
      Love the reference. Still a little puzzled by the "not again" responses as I only saw one previous mention of such a thing.
    • HalfBakedHoser wrote:

      Dealer of Death wrote:

      HalfBakedHoser wrote:

      Thoughts on a late tech upgrade for ballistic missiles that would allow them to target surface ships? Obviously the real world parallel would be the DF-21

      This would have to be balanced by an associated missile defense upgrade for frigates (and cruisers?).

      At the same time I would like to see something to make groups of cruise missiles more effective against ships.
      " ... Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was Oh no, not again."
      Love the reference. Still a little puzzled by the "not again" responses as I only saw one previous mention of such a thing.
      After the introduction of the "mobile" game, there was a coding loophole that allowed mobile players and only mobile players to target ships on a "center" ocean point with ballistic missiles. Since I play primarily on desktop, I lobbied to have this unfair loophole closed, as it was a massively unfair advantage. I even made a meme about it when it was rectified. So the "again" reference was to going back (tho more equitably) to a previous state. Additionally, since I am a big "navy" player, the "oh no" part is in reference to my dislike for anything diminishing naval power.

      the meme:

      GRAVE DANCE.jpg
      *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***
      The KING of CoN News!!!
      The "Get off my lawn!" cranky CoN Forums Poster - not affiliated with Dorado in any way


      "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD
    • HalfBakedHoser wrote:

      Clock wrote:

      HalfBakedHoser wrote:

      I searched through the old posts before submitting this one and saw only one previous mention of such an ability. I think it would fill an important niche and make naval play more interesting. Currently I think there are not enough different ways to approach the naval fight. Basically its just down to who has more cruisers as I see it.
      Yes, it´s not dynamic enough. But I think they should try to do something with existing units (... aircraft carrier maybe? don't fix something that isn't broken, though) rather than adding more things although I think the post below

      Colonel Waffles wrote:

      For the groups of cruise missiles, I once suggested that the Cruise Missile Launcher could be able to stack 2 Cruise missiles together

      It would allow it to serve as a coastal defense against ships and heavy support for land units.
      would be better than what you are suggesting.
      Thanks for the perspective. What do you think is the main drawback of something like what I suggested?
      Balance would not become valuable enough. Ballistic submarines could be hidden everywhere and simply move around with that much more HP, able to easily punch through Frigates. Ballistics would become much too powerful and would be used to target ships at sea dealing literally 150 damage.
      But in reality, the feature would just be useless... move 20 miles away and they can't target you any longer. Maybe for coastal cities that share 1 Naval pathway but that is very specific.
      Cruise missiles are much more flexible and would give a decent use to a currently useless unit without unbalancing Navy too much and allowing reduced Navy to be somewhat acceptable ( the launcher would be kind of like an anti-air but for Navy).
    • Clock wrote:

      HalfBakedHoser wrote:

      Clock wrote:

      HalfBakedHoser wrote:

      I searched through the old posts before submitting this one and saw only one previous mention of such an ability. I think it would fill an important niche and make naval play more interesting. Currently I think there are not enough different ways to approach the naval fight. Basically its just down to who has more cruisers as I see it.
      Yes, it´s not dynamic enough. But I think they should try to do something with existing units (... aircraft carrier maybe? don't fix something that isn't broken, though) rather than adding more things although I think the post below

      Colonel Waffles wrote:

      For the groups of cruise missiles, I once suggested that the Cruise Missile Launcher could be able to stack 2 Cruise missiles together

      It would allow it to serve as a coastal defense against ships and heavy support for land units.
      would be better than what you are suggesting.
      Thanks for the perspective. What do you think is the main drawback of something like what I suggested?
      Balance would not become valuable enough. Ballistic submarines could be hidden everywhere and simply move around with that much more HP, able to easily punch through Frigates. Ballistics would become much too powerful and would be used to target ships at sea dealing literally 150 damage.But in reality, the feature would just be useless... move 20 miles away and they can't target you any longer. Maybe for coastal cities that share 1 Naval pathway but that is very specific.
      Cruise missiles are much more flexible and would give a decent use to a currently useless unit without unbalancing Navy too much and allowing reduced Navy to be somewhat acceptable ( the launcher would be kind of like an anti-air but for Navy).
      Perhaps there is some way it could be restricted to only land-based launchers.
    • Gen Vader wrote:

      HalfBakedHoser wrote:

      What do you think is the main drawback of something like what I suggested?
      Balance.
      I don't consider a balance issue reason to trash a possible feature in-and-of itself; it just means the feature would need to be tweaked in order to balance it properly. Maybe this unit-targeting ballistic could be made as a specialty offshoot of the existing bm tree (as naval fighters are to traditional fighters) which would have its own land-based launcher that it is exclusive to.
    • HalfBakedHoser wrote:

      I don't consider a balance issue reason to trash a possible feature in-and-of itself; it just means the feature would need to be tweaked in order to balance it properly. Maybe this unit-targeting ballistic could be made as a specialty offshoot of the existing bm tree (as naval fighters are to traditional fighters) which would have its own land-based launcher that it is exclusive to.
      Give me some rough numbers including cost per unit, hp, atk and missile defence changes.
      ''Miseris succurrere disco''
    • Gen Vader wrote:

      HalfBakedHoser wrote:

      I don't consider a balance issue reason to trash a possible feature in-and-of itself; it just means the feature would need to be tweaked in order to balance it properly. Maybe this unit-targeting ballistic could be made as a specialty offshoot of the existing bm tree (as naval fighters are to traditional fighters) which would have its own land-based launcher that it is exclusive to.
      Give me some rough numbers including cost per unit, hp, atk and missile defence changes.
      Any input on these numbers is greatly appreciated

      Precision Guided Ballistic Missile:

      Research requirements:
      Day 15
      Tier 2 Ballistics

      Research costs:
      Supplies - 3000
      Rares - 3500
      Time - 1d15h

      PGBM Launcher:

      Requirements:
      Secret Wep Lab - 4
      Arms Industry - 1

      Costs:
      Supplies - 800
      Manpower - 600
      Rares - 550
      Electronics - 1100
      Cash - 2000

      Upkeep:
      Supplies - 75
      Manpower - 30
      Fuel - 45
      Cash - 120

      Features:
      Cannot Conquer
      Stealth Unit
      Launch Missile - PGBM (capacity 1, reload 15h)

      Combat Properties: See Tier 2 Ballistic Launcher

      Terrain Information: See Tier 2 Ballistic Launcher


      Conventional PGBM:

      Costs:
      3 warheads

      Properties:
      Deals splash damage within radius of 15

      Features:
      Radar Signature - Fixed Wing High
      Attack Range - 1500
      Single Use
      Storm Position
      Uncontrollable

      Combat Properties:
      Soft - 50
      Hard - 135
      Fixed - 100 - 2
      Rotary - 100 - 2
      Surface Vessels - 150
      Buildings - 50
      Population - 30

      Speed - 30
      HP - 20


      Chemical PGBM:

      Costs:
      3 warheads

      Properties:
      Deals splash damage within a radius of 30
      Damages friendly units

      Features:
      Radar Signature - Fixed Wing High
      Attack Range - 1500
      Single Use
      Storm Position
      Uncontrollable

      Combat Properties:
      Soft - 225
      Hard - 35
      Fixed - 55 - 1
      Rotary - 55 - 1
      Surface Vessels - 45
      Population - 100

      Speed - 30
      HP - 20

      Nuclear PGBM:

      Costs:
      3 warheads

      Properties:
      Deals splash damage within a radius of 30
      Damages friendly units

      Features:
      Radar Signature - Fixed Wing High
      Attack Range - 1500
      Single Use
      Storm Position
      Uncontrollable

      Combat Properties:
      Soft - 350
      Hard - 350
      Fixed - 175 - 2
      Rotary - 175 - 2
      Surface - 350
      Buildings - 100
      Population - 165

      Speed - 30
      HP - 20


      Frigate changes:

      Tier 2.1 research becomes ballistic missile defense upgrading combining the current engine overhaul with a +2 bonus to missile attack and defense that increases to +3 at Tier 3

      Cruiser changes:

      Tier 3 now adds +2 missile attack and defense




      Just some rough thoughts. 5 tier 2 frigates still match the hp of one of these with their combined missile defense even without my tweaks.
    • well you launch from another ship. Or I can launch from naval patrol with 3000 mile range plus the missile. If you arent close enough to find naval target how would you lock on a moving target in the dark?
      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp
    • Buckeyechamp wrote:

      well you launch from another ship. Or I can launch from naval patrol with 3000 mile range plus the missile. If you arent close enough to find naval target how would you lock on a moving target in the dark?
      I like to use radar battalions and/or AWACS in all my matches already, so I would have no problem here.

      Also, this PGBM would be exclusive to the land-based launcher detailed above.
    • Dont use land based launchers is answer. Mobile launchers biggest waste. if going ballistic missile; get some BM subs but still not designed to attack Naval units. How about you adjust your game to fit what tools do; versus vice versa.

      Oh I wish I could use a hammer as a screw driver.
      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp