Theatre Defense System bypass?

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    • Theatre Defense System bypass?

      Currently on day 50 in a x4 where most countries have nukes etc but my question is this, if a country just builds like 10 Theatre Defense Systems and places them all around their country then how are you expected to missile them? surely every TDS will engage the missile and there is no way you'll be able to make a missile high enough HP to survive...so if i put say 3 TDS's around my capitol im basically untouchable and the time spent making missiles was pointless?

      Or is there a way to bypass this? i.e fire a standard warhead at a city then a few seconds later a nuke so the missile defences are cooling down from engaging the first missile or how does it all work? one person in game i asked pretty much told me once a country makes multiple TDS's or stacks them with SAM's your missiles are pointless and cant get through and if this is true and there is no way to bypass them isn't this a little too OP? takes away the whole point in spending all that time and resources just getting to the stage of having nukes just for them to be destroyed, in the game im in right now i have 9 TDS's lol.

      • How to bypass missile defences so my missiles can land in cities?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Corey32 ().

    • As I understand it, THAAD reaction to incoming targets is on a fixed ten minute timer.
      It is the same timer that all other units use for Air Defense in that game instance.

      Thus, if the clock starts at the top of the hour, and the intruder is not in the detection range of the defender, then that intruder has 9 minutes and 59 seconds to reach the target before the defender can react.

      So if you place THAAD's in a perimeter around your country border, there is a chance that attacking missiles will bypass the defense before it reacts.

      The exception is if the defender is at the same location as the target.
      In that case, no matter where the clock is in it's countdown, the defender will get to fire at the attacker as the attacker reaches the target.
      That defensive fire takes place before the attacker does, and only surviving attackers will be able to continue.

      Since ballistic missiles and ICBMs can only attack cities and province centers, parking several THAADs at the city location should remove the missile threat.

    • So if i wanted to nuke a country with the TDS i would have to somehow trigger it? so by firing a missile would trigger them and then a 10 min cooldown so if i fired a second missile a few seconds after the first it would just bypass? or you mean it depends purely on a timer?

      Sort of confused a little sorry, basically i am wanting to fire nukes at America but i know for a fact he has the TDS and nobody makes just one lets be honest so lets assume he has atleast two, how would i get my nukes past them? from what i can understand you're saying the anti air systems run off a timer? so my strategy of firing one missile to trigger the defences followed by a second while the defences are in cooldown wouldn't work?

    • I mean who doesn't want to make nukes lol? thats like saying don't make planes as people can make anti air? so what...its about having fun! my point is there is zero point in missiles at all if someone can just spam a bunch of TDS's and be completely untouchable, day 50 in my game with over 60 players still and every country has TDS's pretty much so what a fun game...lol

      Quickly reading that it seems im right...so all someone would have to do is trigger a cooldown then fire another missile during this cooldown, sorted thanks.

    • Yep.

      An example.

      Say the game wide AA defense clock starts at the top of the hour - 01:00:00 (one a.m.).
      At that moment, all AA systems with a detected targets in their range will fire.

      The next time any AA system will fire is at 01:10:00 (ten minutes later).
      If a target enters detection range at 01:02:07, (two minutes past the hour) no AA system will fire, even if that particular system did not fire at 01:00:00.
      If a target enters even one second past 01:00:00, no system will fire.

      So any targets that enter/leave/loiter the engagement range between the ten minute intervals is safe during that period.

      It is possible that a fast moving attacker could enter the engagement range, attack a target near the edge of the defensive perimeter, then leave without ever coming under fire from the defensive AA unit.

      EXCEPTION
      The exception to the ten minute timer is in the case where the target is at the same location as the Air defense unit.
      In this case, even if the attacker is in the ten minute window, the Air defense unit gets to fire at the attacker just before the attack occurs.
      Only if the Air defense unit fails to destroy the attacker does the attacker get to attack, with whatever survives the defensive fire.
      What is more, the defender in this case will fire at EVERY attacking stack arriving separately regardless of number of stacks.

      So if you time 100 fast moving fighters in one hundred separate groups to arrive on target (at the same moment) during the ten minute window, the defender still gets to engage every one of those attackers.
      If you stagger them so that they arrive one second apart, the defender still gets to fire at each and every plane, as long as the defender kills each attacker with one shot each.

      The trick would be to send an aircraft stack such that the stack is both fast enough to get in during the ten minute window, and also able to survive the one shot defensive fire of the AA unit(s).

    • My group just fired over 12 missiles at him all at different times etc and his defences just destroyed every single one..even tried firing a few after the first load hoping anti air would be in cooldown but nope every single missile destroyed even level 3 missiles, so seems my first thought has rang true...you can just spam missile defences all around your country and your untouchable, nice.

    • Hydralysk wrote:

      Yep.

      An example.

      Say the game wide AA defense clock starts at the top of the hour - 01:00:00 (one a.m.).
      At that moment, all AA systems with a detected targets in their range will fire.

      The next time any AA system will fire is at 01:10:00 (ten minutes later).
      If a target enters detection range at 01:02:07, (two minutes past the hour) no AA system will fire, even if that particular system did not fire at 01:00:00.
      If a target enters even one second past 01:00:00, no system will fire.

      So any targets that enter/leave/loiter the engagement range between the ten minute intervals is safe during that period.

      It is possible that a fast moving attacker could enter the engagement range, attack a target near the edge of the defensive perimeter, then leave without ever coming under fire from the defensive AA unit.

      EXCEPTION
      The exception to the ten minute timer is in the case where the target is at the same location as the Air defense unit.
      In this case, even if the attacker is in the ten minute window, the Air defense unit gets to fire at the attacker just before the attack occurs.
      Only if the Air defense unit fails to destroy the attacker does the attacker get to attack, with whatever survives the defensive fire.
      What is more, the defender in this case will fire at EVERY attacking stack arriving separately regardless of number of stacks.

      So if you time 100 fast moving fighters in one hundred separate groups to arrive on target (at the same moment) during the ten minute window, the defender still gets to engage every one of those attackers.
      If you stagger them so that they arrive one second apart, the defender still gets to fire at each and every plane, as long as the defender kills each attacker with one shot each.

      The trick would be to send an aircraft stack such that the stack is both fast enough to get in during the ten minute window, and also able to survive the one shot defensive fire of the AA unit(s).
      similar to how you can shoot down uav/strike fighters
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    • ITzCorey32 wrote:

      So if i wanted to nuke a country with the TDS i would have to somehow trigger it? so by firing a missile would trigger them and then a 10 min cooldown so if i fired a second missile a few seconds after the first it would just bypass? or you mean it depends purely on a timer?

      Sort of confused a little sorry, basically i am wanting to fire nukes at America but i know for a fact he has the TDS and nobody makes just one lets be honest so lets assume he has atleast two, how would i get my nukes past them? from what i can understand you're saying the anti air systems run off a timer? so my strategy of firing one missile to trigger the defences followed by a second while the defences are in cooldown wouldn't work?
      yes; And even launch a Conv warhead followed by nuke; the conv will be a throw away. Ive gotton through a lot of TDs stacked.
      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp

    • Go through the defenses by striking a province near the city. Time it right (bait the TDS with a jet/missile to utilize the 10-minute cooldown), make sure the province nearby is within at least 75 range of the capital/city, and viola. Splash damage scores.

      You just wiped out the TDS sitting there, now follow it up with a second ICBM or 3 or 4 and completely obliterate the city. Done it many times since I found out about bubble piercing.

      tdsexample.JPG

    • All you need to do is stack multiple TDS's or even just level up SAMs and stack loads together and your cities will be impossible to hit with missiles, can't see how you could time it to bypass the cooldown...i fired a missile to trigger the anti airs followed by another missile a few mins later when the anti air is meant to be in cooldown for 10 mins yet they still got destroyed..we ended up firing over 16 missiles at America and not a single one landed, after the game ended we could see they just had anti air spammed all around and when i say spammed im talking about over 30 anti air units.

      Especially on x4 speed the anti air timer seems to also be sped up meaning you have literally seconds to try and hit them while on cooldown which i found out when having to fire over 9 cruise missiles just to get one through at a naval fleet, personally think there is nothing wrong with it as i understand you have to balance missiles with missile defences to make it fair but when someone can just stack tons of TDS's with SAMs and destroy every missile it just means you've wasted all the time and resources on research and building missiles but it is what it is.

      Also for people trying to give strategies let me just stop you by saying this, i had my group send 6 level 5 stealth fighters and a flight officer to trigger the anti air and they got one shot wiped out....same with maxed out bombers they just mostly got one shot or if we'd send 5 we'd be lucky to get one back..thats how OP anti air is when you stack them and level them up so saying to trigger anti air is basically saying waste a bunch of resources on building up planes just to lose them all to fire one missile and hope it lands...when you stack anti air like this group did there is no amount of planes that would survive or if they did you'd lose most of them and again for people who said to fire multiple missiles to bait the systems i fired a warhead followed by another 2 min after then a nuke and all 3 got destroyed instantly and at the end of the game we had fired over something like 16 missiles and not a single one made it through, we fired 8 missiles at one city and not all at the same time so the defences should of been in cooldown after defending off the first missiles launched but nope all 8 was wiped out...laughable.

      Maybe i'm just crap lol as i'm only like level 20 but for me nothing we did worked and after seeing their stacked units after the game ended im not surprised nothing got through...

      Example of just one of their AA stacks: x3 level 4 TDS, x2 level 5 SAMs stacked together which would deal something like 36 damage to missiles and 33 damage to planes..now imagine another 29 of these stacked around his homeland and for the person who asked did the missiles take damage before landing yes, all missiles we fired never detonated on impact we got notifications they were "lost" before they hit the cities.

      We also sent maxed out naval bombers to destroy a fleet and they all just got one shot...did hardly any damage and get wiped out before even attacking they are useless and need scrapping from game to be honest.

      The post was edited 6 times, last by Corey32 ().

    • Seems to me like you didn't actually read most of what was posted tho; from what I see it was pretty clearly stated that directly attacking the TDS with missiles is pretty much impossible as long as their DMG vs Missile is higher than the missile HP. Because the defensive damage they will deal when getting attacked does not adhere to any sort of cooldown

      Someone also posted the link to my google doc that should sufficiently explain how AA actually works.

      Hard counters utterly wrecking the unit they are supposed to hard counter is kinda how the game is supposed to work. Does the enemy have a metric fuckton of AA? Well, you probably should have an alternative prepared as an Air-Player.
      I am The Baseline for opinions

    • ITzCorey32 wrote:

      All you need to do is stack multiple TDS's or even just level up SAMs and stack loads together and your cities will be impossible to hit with missiles, can't see how you could time it to bypass the cooldown...i fired a missile to trigger the anti airs followed by another missile a few mins later when the anti air is meant to be in cooldown for 10 mins yet they still got destroyed..we ended up firing over 16 missiles at America and not a single one landed, after the game ended we could see they just had anti air spammed all around and when i say spammed im talking about over 30 anti air units.

      Especially on x4 speed the anti air timer seems to also be sped up meaning you have literally seconds to try and hit them while on cooldown which i found out when having to fire over 9 cruise missiles just to get one through at a naval fleet, personally think there is nothing wrong with it as i understand you have to balance missiles with missile defences to make it fair but when someone can just stack tons of TDS's with SAMs and destroy every missile it just means you've wasted all the time and resources on research and building missiles but it is what it is.

      Also for people trying to give strategies let me just stop you by saying this, i had my group send 6 level 5 stealth fighters and a flight officer to trigger the anti air and they got one shot wiped out....same with maxed out bombers they just mostly got one shot or if we'd send 5 we'd be lucky to get one back..thats how OP anti air is when you stack them and level them up so saying to trigger anti air is basically saying waste a bunch of resources on building up planes just to lose them all to fire one missile and hope it lands...when you stack anti air like this group did there is no amount of planes that would survive or if they did you'd lose most of them and again for people who said to fire multiple missiles to bait the systems i fired a warhead followed by another 2 min after then a nuke and all 3 got destroyed instantly and at the end of the game we had fired over something like 16 missiles and not a single one made it through, we fired 8 missiles at one city and not all at the same time so the defences should of been in cooldown after defending off the first missiles launched but nope all 8 was wiped out...laughable.

      Maybe i'm just crap lol as i'm only like level 20 but for me nothing we did worked and after seeing their stacked units after the game ended im not surprised nothing got through...

      Example of just one of their AA stacks: x3 level 4 TDS, x2 level 5 SAMs stacked together which would deal something like 36 damage to missiles and 33 damage to planes..now imagine another 29 of these stacked around his homeland and for the person who asked did the missiles take damage before landing yes, all missiles we fired never detonated on impact we got notifications they were "lost" before they hit the cities.

      We also sent maxed out naval bombers to destroy a fleet and they all just got one shot...did hardly any damage and get wiped out before even attacking they are useless and need scrapping from game to be honest.
      I think it's because even if all the anti air stacks are outside the city center, it's very difficult to hit the city because only the stack which is enough to kill that bait missile is triggered.

      So for example if the enemy has 3 anti air stacks dealing 30 attack dmg each.You send one lvl 1 icbm(hp 22),only 1 AA stack will be triggered because it is enough to kill the missile.But if you sent 1 mx lvl icbm (Hp 40)<strong style="font-size: 16px; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.1);">[/b],
      2 anti air stacks will be triggered because 1 is not enough to kill it but 2 are.The 3rd one won't be triggered with that icbm,you will need to send another icbm during the cooldown of those 2 AA stacks to trigger the 3rd stack.

      So judging by this,if the enemy has 10 anti air stacks with one stack enough to kill an icbm with it's attack dmg,you will need to send 10 ICBMs (or any other air baits) just to trigger all those AA stacks(of course under 10 min),so you can hit that city c      onsidering all those stacks are outside the city center.
      So it's practically impossible to pull this stunt lol

      Correct me if my analysis is incorrect