well every war .. people think they are the good guys. But history judges

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    • Dealer of Death wrote:

      It should have put you in your place, for no matter it's silliness, it shows what an image IS
      image - n a visual representation of something

      clearly silhouettes can produce an image which is what this clearly is then, an image of a black hole.
      Hmmm - two thoughts come to mind.

      1) By that definition, a circle drawn with a crayon is an image of a black hole, and if that circle is an image of a black hole (a visual representation of one) (a crude/simple representation but still ...) then pretty much any vaguely circular bug splat on a windscreen, or a picture of a tire, or ... are also images of black holes. For that reason, I don't think that definition is a useful one in this conversation. English is a slippery language.

      2) The last time I checked (there may have been improvements I missed, or I might have misunderstood) the only way to get information from a black hole (assuming that you want to sense and record that information) was to capture some Hawking radiation released by the hole. Since the sensor that produced that image wasn't a Hawking radiation detector, I still contend that it is an image of stuff that is evidence a black hole is there, but it's not an image of a black hole.

      Opulon wrote:

      Gentlemen, you invest way too much intellectual power to fuel the afterburner of a idiotic pleasantry of mine :D
      Sometimes it just has to be done. ;) It restores your alertness after your brain has been dulled by all the useless one-liners that get posted around here.
    • KFGauss wrote:

      Kurt - You and this thread are once again straying pretty far afield.

      Anyone with a lick of sense in the USA knows that in a world awash in evil and cruelty, the USA's hands are not clean, not by any stretch of the imagination.

      However, if you were to try the (FUTILE, AUGEAN) task of organizing governments and societies (over perhaps the last 4000? years) into some form of good vs evil N-dimensional catalog that included both actions and aspirations, I believe that recent North America might land slightly on the good side of the 50/50 split.

      Feel free to disagree.

      What strikes me as odd however, is that in a CoN forum you feel driven to try to point out the USA's mistakes more than you point out any other government's mistakes, as if you're trying to say the USA sucks especially, instead of making the point that by and large all governments/societies (so far as I know) suck or sucked.

      PS: I've been told that the accurate translation of that commandment Moses carried to the early Israelites isn't "Don't kill.", but instead is "Don't murder." I haven't rigorously confirmed that but I think that "Don't murder." would be consistent with the rest of those books.
      Well lets face one thing. Everything the USA does it does in its own interest. There is nothing noble and its a great achievement of Donald Trunp beeing honest enough to tell the truth with America First.

      So surely I am working my self off the so called world police which by many means like media(Hollywood) is trying to shape the western culture. Its a matter of bewing honest and not pretending to be the nice guy from the neighbour hood whos helping.

      I am pretty convinced that f.e. if russia throws a nuke on Germany the USA will not retailiaze with nuking moscow.
      As long as US homeland is not attacked the last resort will not be put in place. Which puts Germany in a strange position. We are forced to help USA as sidekicks but if bad comes to worse then germany will be turned into ashes and the battle will devastate Europa and not the USA.
      I am not even sure if France will use it 5 nukes for retaliation...
      @Dorado If you Close the Forum and move everything to Discord you will lose my Feedback for sure.
    • kurtvonstein wrote:

      Well lets face one thing. Everything the USA does it does in its own interest. There is nothing noble and its a great achievement of Donald Trunp beeing honest enough to tell the truth with America First.
      . . .
      I suppose I can understand that viewpoint, but I struggle to see why you aren't campaigning for all societies and governments to do better at living up to their best aspirations, instead of consistently tossing grenades in what feels like only one direction.

      You seem to be over-focused on one government and one society, and seem to want to use a different standard to judge them than you use when referring to the rest of the planet.

      I'm confident that the Americans with their heads up their asses who don't know their history are 1000000% annoying to the rest of the world - And maybe that affects what you write here.

      However, guess what - We learned our attitudes from "you" (and from the rest of the places the American colonizers came from) - We didn't invent those attitudes.

      There is one thing you wrote that strikes a sour note.

      Don't give Donald Trump credit for knowing his backside from his elbow, or for having the slightest understanding of what is or is not in the USA's best interests.

      When USA politicians let intelligent people in the USA State Dept make/guide plans and commitments, those foreign policy experts know that the USA is part of a global community and economy.

      We can't hide on our sides of the oceans, and we have invested enormous wealth in creating a strong Europe (and we got an excellent return on those investments).

      There were (and still are) plenty of USA fathers, sons, mothers, and daughters who stood ready to defend the Fulda Gap (and the current equivalent locations) if the balloon ever went up.

      If I list what is in the USA's own interests, a strong, successful, free, Europe is a top-of-the-list item. Hence NATO and SEATO and ..., and the economic equivalents.

      Donald Trump didn't tell the truth about our interests. He generally got them completely backwards and its going to take years to repair the damage he caused.
    • I must object. On the first sight seems very obvious that the US government want a strong and free Europe...but actually its the exact opposite they want. But its hard to see those lines and you have to read and understand what politians like Nixon and Kissinger say. A first idea is the so called flexible response doctrin.

      In the end we come back to the good old "divide and conquer" or "balance of powers" as to what england started and the USA continues.
      Till the 20th century England always interfered to prevent any union in Europe...whatever it might have been under the french flag (Napoleon) or any other nation.

      A free and independent Europe that is dealing for its own interests isnt what USA needs. One example: At the moment the european union is sucking a lot of the economical power out of Germany and distributes it to southern and eastern Europe...and it will be worse when France can conduct its plans for a common debt union...

      I dont have an opinion on every country but the US is the big puppet master in international affairs so there is no wonder they get the most feedback. Unlike switzerland...
      @Dorado If you Close the Forum and move everything to Discord you will lose my Feedback for sure.
    • the common debt proposal, i don't understand how my policy makers are not silenced by their own shame when the say it.


      Litteraly the guy that took two desserts and a bottle of wine for himself, and proposes "let's divide in 4 it's more convenient hey ?" :D

      With friends like that... lmao
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • It should have put you in your place, for no matter it's silliness, it shows what an image IS

      KFGauss wrote:

      Dealer of Death wrote:

      image - a visual representation of something

      clearly silhouettes can produce an image which is what this clearly is then, an image of a black hole.
      Hmmm - two thoughts come to mind.
      1) By that definition, a circle drawn with a crayon is an image of a black hole, and if that circle is an image of a black hole (a visual representation of one) (a crude/simple representation but still ...) then pretty much any vaguely circular bug splat on a windscreen, or a picture of a tire, or ... are also images of black holes. For that reason, I don't think that definition is a useful one in this conversation. English is a slippery language.

      2) The last time I checked (there may have been improvements I missed, or I might have misunderstood) the only way to get information from a black hole (assuming that you want to sense and record that information) was to capture some Hawking radiation released by the hole. Since the sensor that produced that image wasn't a Hawking radiation detector, I still contend that it is an image of stuff that is evidence a black hole is there, but it's not an image of a black hole.

      Opulon wrote:

      Gentlemen, you invest way too much intellectual power to fuel the afterburner of an idiotic pleasantry of mine :D
      Sometimes it just has to be done. ;) It restores your alertness after your brain has been dulled by all the useless one-liners that get posted around here.
      I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I will continue to acknowledge the meaning of an "image" and contend that that is an image of a black hole, and you will continue to ignore the meaning of words and say it is not.

      P.S. Hawking radiation is not the only way to obtain information about a black hole. Size, mass, angular momentum and charge can be obtained without any Hawking radiation detected.
      *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***
      The KING of CoN News!!!
      The "Get off my lawn!" cranky CoN Forums Poster - not affiliated with Dorado in any way


      "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD
    • Dealer of Death wrote:

      I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I will continue to acknowledge the meaning of an "image" and contend that that is an image of a black hole, and you will continue to ignore the meaning of words and say it is not.


      P.S. Hawking radiation is not the only way to obtain information about a black hole. Size, mass, angular momentum and charge can be obtained without any Hawking radiation detected.
      Agree to disagree - I was thinking the same thing - Except for the "ignore the meaning of words" silliness.

      PS: The sensor that created the image in question didn't/doesn't sense-and-report size, mass, angular momentum, or charge. It does sense some forms of radiated energy. :whistling:
    • KFGauss wrote:

      Dealer of Death wrote:

      ...


      P.S. Hawking radiation is not the only way to obtain information about a black hole. Size, mass, angular momentum and charge can be obtained without any Hawking radiation detected.
      Agree to disagree - I was thinking the same thing - Except for the "ignore the meaning of words" silliness.
      PS: The sensor that created the image in question didn't/doesn't sense-and-report size, mass, angular momentum, or charge. It does sense some forms of radiated energy. :whistling:
      I didn't say the sensor obtained that information, I said there were other ways to know information about a black hole other than Hawking radiation. :!:
      *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***
      The KING of CoN News!!!
      The "Get off my lawn!" cranky CoN Forums Poster - not affiliated with Dorado in any way


      "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD
    • Dealer of Death wrote:

      KFGauss wrote:

      Dealer of Death wrote:

      ...


      P.S. Hawking radiation is not the only way to obtain information about a black hole. Size, mass, angular momentum and charge can be obtained without any Hawking radiation detected.
      Agree to disagree - I was thinking the same thing - Except for the "ignore the meaning of words" silliness.PS: The sensor that created the image in question didn't/doesn't sense-and-report size, mass, angular momentum, or charge. It does sense some forms of radiated energy. :whistling:
      I didn't say the sensor obtained that information, I said there were other ways to know information about a black hole other than Hawking radiation. :!:
      And I didn't write "get information about a black hole". I wrote, "get information from a black hole".

      Maybe we need to go to Paris to collect some empirical evidence by conducting a photographing-Parisians experiment? ;)

      @Opulon Is it possible to get information from a Parisian?
    • KFGauss wrote:

      And I didn't write "get information about a black hole". I wrote, "get information from a black hole".
      Maybe we need to go to Paris to collect some empirical evidence by conducting a photographing-Parisians experiment? ;)

      @Opulon Is it possible to get information from a Parisian?
      Getting it's charge, mass, and angular momentum IS getting information from a black hole. Information regarding a black hole is not a unitary commodity that can only be gleaned from what is inside the event horizon.

      I'll include the definition of "from" that applies, which states nothing about "inside", but you will just ignore definitions like you always do in order to keep your house of cards upright. :)

      from [preposition] (used to indicate source or origin):to come from the Earth; to take a pencil from the desk.
      *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***
      The KING of CoN News!!!
      The "Get off my lawn!" cranky CoN Forums Poster - not affiliated with Dorado in any way


      "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD
    • kurtvonstein wrote:

      I must object. On the first sight seems very obvious that the US government want a strong and free Europe...but actually its the exact opposite they want. But its hard to see those lines and you have to read and understand what politians like Nixon and Kissinger say. A first idea is the so called flexible response doctrin.

      In the end we come back to the good old "divide and conquer" or "balance of powers" as to what england started and the USA continues.
      Till the 20th century England always interfered to prevent any union in Europe...whatever it might have been under the french flag (Napoleon) or any other nation.

      A free and independent Europe that is dealing for its own interests isnt what USA needs. One example: At the moment the european union is sucking a lot of the economical power out of Germany and distributes it to southern and eastern Europe...and it will be worse when France can conduct its plans for a common debt union...

      I dont have an opinion on every country but the US is the big puppet master in international affairs so there is no wonder they get the most feedback. Unlike switzerland...
      Hey I'm lite on some aluminum foil.. can you help a brother out?
      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp
    • Dealer of Death wrote:

      KFGauss wrote:

      ...

      PS: "Image by negativity"? I understand perfectly what you mean. I also understand that if I point that sensor elsewhere, it also won't capture any photons from the black hole, so there must be something more to this than not capturing photons. I saying the image is evidence the black hole exists, but is not an image of a black hole.
      Ah, but you see, it isn't just a matter of the sensor not picking up photons from the black hole when pointed elsewhere, it IS the fact of it not picking up photons of the accretion disc that it should be. Why? Something is in the way. What is it, it is clearly that black void you can see due to the backlight. The black hole.
      Nobody gives a duck.
      "CoN is a game of 80% skill and 20% luck" - Tifo_14

      "I don't get paid enough to do anything" - Germanico

      Nothing stops the Tifo :thumbup:
    • Tifo_14 wrote:

      Dealer of Death wrote:

      KFGauss wrote:

      ...

      PS: "Image by negativity"? I understand perfectly what you mean. I also understand that if I point that sensor elsewhere, it also won't capture any photons from the black hole, so there must be something more to this than not capturing photons. I saying the image is evidence the black hole exists, but is not an image of a black hole.
      Ah, but you see, it isn't just a matter of the sensor not picking up photons from the black hole when pointed elsewhere, it IS the fact of it not picking up photons of the accretion disc that it should be. Why? Something is in the way. What is it, it is clearly that black void you can see due to the backlight. The black hole.
      Nobody gives a duck.
      Except for everybody but you?
      You really shouldn't overgeneralize.
      (yes, go ahead and point it out if you like)
    • KFGauss wrote:



      What strikes me as odd however, is that in a CoN forum you feel driven to try to point out the USA's mistakes more than you point out any other government's mistakes, as if you're trying to say the USA sucks especially, instead of making the point that by and large all governments/societies (so far as I know) suck or sucked.
      You are framing me for something I am not...I am pretty objective in my thoughts. Unless you wanne be woke and you think that chaimberlain rocks deserves his punishment...

      So putting me into the "USA in the root for everything evil "corner would be totally wrong...I even asked why USA only has 2 countries ind RED s Blue and Russia has 5...
      So No idea how you get to this conslusion...but I recommend you study Kissinge and Nixon on their Europe doctrine.
      @Dorado If you Close the Forum and move everything to Discord you will lose my Feedback for sure.
    • kurtvonstein wrote:

      KFGauss wrote:

      What strikes me as odd however, is that in a CoN forum you feel driven to try to point out the USA's mistakes more than you point out any other government's mistakes, as if you're trying to say the USA sucks especially, instead of making the point that by and large all governments/societies (so far as I know) suck or sucked.
      You are framing me for something I am not...I am pretty objective in my thoughts. Unless you wanne be woke and you think that chaimberlain rocks deserves his punishment...
      So putting me into the "USA in the root for everything evil "corner would be totally wrong...I even asked why USA only has 2 countries ind RED s Blue and Russia has 5...
      So No idea how you get to this conslusion...but I recommend you study Kissinge and Nixon on their Europe doctrine.
      Well they put that orange bozo in office, and now Russia is on the rise again.
      "CoN is a game of 80% skill and 20% luck" - Tifo_14

      "I don't get paid enough to do anything" - Germanico

      Nothing stops the Tifo :thumbup: