I don't get frigate/corvette stacks

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    • I don't get frigate/corvette stacks

      When I build my navy, I go for 2 destroyers, 2 cruisers, and 1 frigate. I do that for anti-sub, anti-ship, and anti air. It would destroy corvettes and frigates. Any powerful navy could destroy those frigate stacks. Can you please tell me the though process behind them.

      My EU doctrine max level stack stats

      22.0 infantry
      16.5 armored
      18.0 atk air | 26.0 def air
      13.0 atk heli | 19.0 def helo
      6.0 atk missile | 9.0 def missile
      72.0 atk/def ships
      45 atk/def subs
    • Lionheart wrote:

      When I build my navy, I go for 2 destroyers, 2 cruisers, and 1 frigate. I do that for anti-sub, anti-ship, and anti air. It would destroy corvettes and frigates. Any powerful navy could destroy those frigate stacks. Can you please tell me the though process behind them.

      My EU doctrine max level stack stats

      22.0 infantry
      16.5 armored
      18.0 atk air | 26.0 def air
      13.0 atk heli | 19.0 def helo
      6.0 atk missile | 9.0 def missile
      72.0 atk/def ships
      45 atk/def subs
      to get that you are researching corv; frigs; dest; cruise plus you need navy 4 (2 extra builds) and now you have to max research 3 naval types. Huge resource costs sunk into one stack.

      By the time you research all that and build those 5 units I could build 10 - 15 Frigs (2 researches vs 4; navy 2 fast 9 hrs) and trust me two or three 5 Frig stacks would smoke your 5 ships. And early on cruisers have virtually zero air defense and 1 frig not going to take out 5 stack of SF or naval patrol.

      Naval Patrol much better at detecting/killing subs plus can launch CMs at range of 3000 miles and radar can detect your ships 100s of miles before you see me.

      Also look at opportunity costs of other stuff you cant research.

      But lets just assume lvl1 of all units and say 2 Naval cities.

      Me:
      Day 1 - Research corvettes (30 min) 1300 S ; 1400 R; 2500 M
      - Build arms ind (9 hrs) 450S; 350 C; 225 R; 350 F; 250 E; 1250 M
      - Build navy 2 (9 hrs) 500S; 750C; 750 F; 500 E; 2000
      Day2 - Research Frig 1400 S; 1750 R; 3000

      Total Prebuild cost: 3650 S; 1100 C; 3375 R; 1150 F; 750 E; 8750 M

      Day 3 - 2 Frigs 2000 C; 1100 E; 1750 M x 2
      Day 4 - 2 frigs 2000 C; 1100 E; 1750 M x 2
      Day 5 - 1 frigs 2000 C; 1100 E; 1750 M x 1

      Total Build cost per 5 stack: 10000 C; 5500 E; 4950 M

      Total cost: 3650 S; 11100 C; 3375 R; 1150 F; 6250 E; 15000 M

      You:
      Day 1 - Research corvettes (30 min) 1300 S ; 1400 R; 2500 M
      - Build arms ind (9 hrs) 450S; 350 C; 225 R; 350 F; 250 E; 1250 M
      - Build navy 2 (9 hrs) 500S; 750C; 750 F; 500 E; 2000
      Day 2 - Research Frig 1400 S; 1750 R; 3000
      Day 3 - Research Dest 1600 S; 1950 R; 3500 M
      - Build two Navy 3 1500 S; 2000 C; 2500 F; 1500 E; 3500 M
      Day 4 - Research Cruiser 2175 S; 2400 R; 5000 M
      - Build Navy 4 1000 S; 1500 C; 1750 F; 1000 E; 5500 M

      Total Prebuild costs: 8325 S (+ 4675); 4600 C (+3500); 7725 R (+4350); 5400 F (+4250); 3250 E (+2500); 21250 M (+12500) - without gold would take all resources

      Day 3 - Build 1 Frig 2000 C; 1100 E; 1750 M ( 1 frig vs 2 frigs)
      Day 4 - Build 1 Dest 2500 C; 900 E; 1950 M (1 frig / 1 dest v 4 frigs)
      Day 5 - Build 1 Dest 2500 C; 900 E; 1950 M
      1 Cruiser 3500 C; 1200 E; 2500 M ( 1 frig/ 2 dest/ 1 cruise v 5 Frigs)
      Day 6 - Build 1 Cruiser 3500 C; 1200 E; 2500 M ( 1 frig/ 2 dest/ 2 cruise v 5 Frigs) ** - Highly doubtful could have resources to research / build all this by day 6

      Total Build Cost: 16000 C (+6000); 5300 E (- 200 ); 10650 M (+ 5700)

      Total Cost: 8325 S (+4675) ; 20600 C (+9500 or 3 free frigs); 7725 R (+4350 or 2 free researches); 5400 F (+4250); 8550 E (+3300 or 2.5 frigs free); 33150 M (+18150 or cost of next 15 frigs)

      Lvl 1 stats: (realistically with saved resources would be lvl2 2 or 3 when you are all lvl 1 but we will keep it apples to apples)

      5 frigs - 2 /1.5/6/1/2.5/6/3/1/2 x five

      10 Soft / 7.5 Hard / 30 planes / 5 chopper / 12.5 missile / 30 ship / 15 sub / 5 building / 10 civ


      1 frig 2 /1.5/6/1/2.5/6/3/1/2
      2 Dest 2/ 2/ 0/ 0/ 0/ 8 / 5 / 1/ 2 x 2
      2 Cru 3/ 2/ 2/ 3 / 1 / 10 / 2 / 1.5 / 3 x 2

      12 Soft / 9.5 Hard / 8 Planes / 7 choppers / 4.5 missile / 42 ship / 17 sub / 7 building / 12 civ --- at double cost not getting double the productivity and highly vulnerable to Naval Patrol; SF; CMs. Will be well into my second stack before you finish first unless you spend gold. I dont stand and bang with navy will spot you with naval patrol and 2 v 1 your solo stack.

      So obviously better overall stats when build higher level ships but cost / power ratio is terrible and would be hard to build an army and airforce at same time.

      And to keep up with 3 vs 1 research trees you are going to be spending a tom more supplies and rare.



      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp

      The post was edited 1 time, last by The Pale Rider ().

    • Buckeyechamp wrote:

      Lionheart wrote:

      When I build my navy, I go for 2 destroyers, 2 cruisers, and 1 frigate. I do that for anti-sub, anti-ship, and anti air. It would destroy corvettes and frigates. Any powerful navy could destroy those frigate stacks. Can you please tell me the though process behind them.

      My EU doctrine max level stack stats

      22.0 infantry
      16.5 armored
      18.0 atk air | 26.0 def air
      13.0 atk heli | 19.0 def helo
      6.0 atk missile | 9.0 def missile
      72.0 atk/def ships
      45 atk/def subs
      to get that you are researching corv; frigs; dest; cruise plus you need navy 4 (2 extra builds) and now you have to max research 3 naval types. Huge resource costs sunk into one stack.
      By the time you research all that and build those 5 units I could build 10 - 15 Frigs (2 researches vs 4; navy 2 fast 9 hrs) and trust me two or three 5 Frig stacks would smoke your 5 ships. And early on cruisers have virtually zero air defense and 1 frig not going to take out 5 stack of SF or naval patrol.

      Naval Patrol much better at detecting/killing subs plus can launch CMs at range of 3000 miles and radar can detect your ships 100s of miles before you see me.

      Also look at opportunity costs of other stuff you cant research.

      But lets just assume lvl1 of all units and say 2 Naval cities.




      Me:
      Day 1 - Research corvettes (30 min) 1300 S ; 1400 R; 2500 M
      - Build arms ind (9 hrs) 450S; 350 C; 225 R; 350 F; 250 E; 1250 M
      - Build navy 2 (9 hrs) 500S; 750C; 750 F; 500 E; 2000
      Day2 - Research Frig 1400 S; 1750 R; 3000

      Total Prebuild cost: 3650 S; 1100 C; 3375 R; 1150 F; 750 E; 8750 M

      Day 3 - 2 Frigs 2000 C; 1100 E; 1750 M x 2
      Day 4 - 2 frigs 2000 C; 1100 E; 1750 M x 2
      Day 5 - 1 frigs 2000 C; 1100 E; 1750 M x 1

      Total Build cost per 5 stack: 10000 C; 5500 E; 4950 M

      Total cost: 3650 S; 11100 C; 3375 R; 1150 F; 6250 E; 15000 M

      You:
      Day 1 - Research corvettes (30 min) 1300 S ; 1400 R; 2500 M
      - Build arms ind (9 hrs) 450S; 350 C; 225 R; 350 F; 250 E; 1250 M
      - Build navy 2 (9 hrs) 500S; 750C; 750 F; 500 E; 2000
      Day 2 - Research Frig 1400 S; 1750 R; 3000
      Day 3 - Research Dest 1600 S; 1950 R; 3500 M
      - Build two Navy 3 1500 S; 2000 C; 2500 F; 1500 E; 3500 M
      Day 4 - Research Cruiser 2175 S; 2400 R; 5000 M
      - Build Navy 4 1000 S; 1500 C; 1750 F; 1000 E; 5500 M

      Total Prebuild costs: 8325 S (+ 4675); 4600 C (+3500); 7725 R (+4350); 5400 F (+4250); 3250 E (+2500); 21250 M (+12500) - without gold would take all resources

      Day 3 - Build 1 Frig 2000 C; 1100 E; 1750 M ( 1 frig vs 2 frigs)
      Day 4 - Build 1 Dest 2500 C; 900 E; 1950 M (1 frig / 1 dest v 4 frigs)
      Day 5 - Build 1 Dest 2500 C; 900 E; 1950 M
      1 Cruiser 3500 C; 1200 E; 2500 M ( 1 frig/ 2 dest/ 1 cruise v 5 Frigs)
      Day 6 - Build 1 Cruiser 3500 C; 1200 E; 2500 M ( 1 frig/ 2 dest/ 2 cruise v 5 Frigs) ** - Highly doubtful could have resources to research / build all this by day 6

      Total Build Cost: 16000 C (+6000); 5300 E (- 200 ); 10650 M (+ 5700)

      Total Cost: 8325 S (+4675; 20600 C (+9500 or 3 free frigs); 7725 R (+4350 or 2 free researches); 5400 F (+4250); 8550 E (+3300 or 2.5 frigs free); 33150 M (+18150 or cost of next 15 frigs)

      Lvl 1 stats:

      5 frigs - 2 /1.5/6/1/2.5/6/3/1/2 x five

      10 Soft / 7.5 Hard / 30 planes / 5 chopper / 12.5 missile / 30 ship / 15 sub / 5 building / 10 civ


      1 frig 2 /1.5/6/1/2.5/6/3/1/2
      2 Dest 2/ 2/ 0/ 0/ 0/ 8 / 5 / 1/ 2 x 2
      2 Cru 3/ 2/ 2/ 3 / 1 / 10 / 2 / 1.5 / 3 x 2

      12 Soft / 9.5 Hard / 8 Planes / 7 choppers / 4.5 missile / 42 ship / 17 sub / 7 building / 12 civ --- at double cost not getting double the productivity and highly vulnerable to Naval Patrol; SF; CMs. Will be well into my second stack before you finish first unless you spend gold. I dont stand and bang with navy will spot you with naval patrol and 2 v 1 your solo stack.

      So obviously better overall stats when build higher level ships but cost / power ratio is terrible and would be hard to build an army and airforce at same time.

      And to keep up with 3 vs 1 research trees you are going to be spending a tom more supplies and rare.
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      I build Navy after I am done with my main tech tree so by that point I have the resources to build a high end navy, but thanks for the explanation. In my current game all humans (besides my coalition) have been destroyed. It is day 44, but a week and a half ago I had the ability to print a full stack per day, but I had almost no navy to actually fight against :(. The big war against the opposing coalition (half a week ago) was quick and I only sunk a few ships
    • Lionheart wrote:

      Buckeyechamp wrote:

      I build Navy after I am done with my main tech tree so by that point I have the resources to build a high end navy, but thanks for the explanation. In my current game all humans (besides my coalition) have been destroyed. It is day 44, but a week and a half ago I had the ability to print a full stack per day, but I had almost no navy to actually fight against :(. The big war against the opposing coalition (half a week ago) was quick and I only sunk a few ships

      So you build a huge navy when you dont need it?? well i would definetly wipe you out before you launched first ship. I use my navy to actually beat live opponents and if i saw you building navy 3 / 4 I would sail multiple 5 frig stacks (heck even 1) over and wreck your cities and without any navy nothing you could do about it.

      what is pupose of resarching for 25 - 30 days then build when game is over?
      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp
    • So you build a huge navy when you dont need it?? well i would definetly wipe you out before you launched first ship. I use my navy to actually beat live opponents and if i saw you building navy 3 / 4 I would sail multiple 5 frig stacks (heck even 1) over and wreck your cities and without any navy nothing you could do about it.

      what is pupose of resarching for 25 - 30 days then build when game is over?

      --------------------------------------------------

      I go for strike fighters and air-superiority fighters which can be OP since nobody (okay maybe some) go for SAMs. I don't have a need to use ships until later when going against high end militaries. It takes me like a week and a half to research a full max navy so it is day 40 which by most games i have played is a little past mid game.
    • But you just said by the time get 1 stack no active players left? so you just wasted a lot of time for site seeing tour as 99 pct countries that go AI will have zero navy.

      80 day games ?? geeze. Im winning in 40 days; think longest was 60 days.
      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp
    • Lionheart wrote:

      When I build my navy, I go for 2 destroyers, 2 cruisers, and 1 frigate. I do that for anti-sub, anti-ship, and anti air. It would destroy corvettes and frigates. Any powerful navy could destroy those frigate stacks. Can you please tell me the though process behind them.

      My EU doctrine max level stack stats

      22.0 infantry
      16.5 armored
      18.0 atk air | 26.0 def air
      13.0 atk heli | 19.0 def helo
      6.0 atk missile | 9.0 def missile
      72.0 atk/def ships
      45 atk/def subs
      Frigates are based on providing Anti-Air capabilities to your attacking ships. Naval Air Power and Air Units in general are considerably strong so it's good to have the protection of Frigates behind them to back them up and let them keep attacking. If my enemy has frigate stacks and cruiser/destroyer stacks and I dont have a good navy or im based on air then I'm screwed.

      For corvettes though that's just early game stuff for nations with small resource production. If you find corvettes late game their probably just left overs from the enemies first days.
    • xXWolfXx wrote:

      Buckeyechamp wrote:

      80 day games ?? geeze. Im winning in 40 days; think longest was 60 days.
      A short game just means you didnt have much of a challenge. A long game is game that's filled with tons of twists, excitement, real fun, boring grinding days and whatnot. If you think about it short games suck if they're 4x
      no short games .... i take out threats before they are real threats. Im not sitting back waiting for guys like you to build a navy 40 days into game.
      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp
    • Buckeyechamp wrote:

      xXWolfXx wrote:

      Buckeyechamp wrote:

      80 day games ?? geeze. Im winning in 40 days; think longest was 60 days.
      A short game just means you didnt have much of a challenge. A long game is game that's filled with tons of twists, excitement, real fun, boring grinding days and whatnot. If you think about it short games suck if they're 4x
      no short games .... i take out threats before they are real threats. Im not sitting back waiting for guys like you to build a navy 40 days into game.
      No need to get all serious lol. If you took more time to read what I said over you'd know I was just stating my perspective and not challenging you. If your trying to insult me though I advise against it.
    • xXWolfXx wrote:

      Buckeyechamp wrote:

      xXWolfXx wrote:

      Buckeyechamp wrote:

      80 day games ?? geeze. Im winning in 40 days; think longest was 60 days.
      A short game just means you didnt have much of a challenge. A long game is game that's filled with tons of twists, excitement, real fun, boring grinding days and whatnot. If you think about it short games suck if they're 4x
      no short games .... i take out threats before they are real threats. Im not sitting back waiting for guys like you to build a navy 40 days into game.
      No need to get all serious lol. If you took more time to read what I said over you'd know I was just stating my perspective and not challenging you. If your trying to insult me though I advise against it.
      not insulting... stating facts. countries that sit back never win and good players wll see what you are trying to build and take you out.
      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp
    • Buckeyechamp wrote:

      xXWolfXx wrote:

      Buckeyechamp wrote:

      xXWolfXx wrote:

      Buckeyechamp wrote:

      80 day games ?? geeze. Im winning in 40 days; think longest was 60 days.
      A short game just means you didnt have much of a challenge. A long game is game that's filled with tons of twists, excitement, real fun, boring grinding days and whatnot. If you think about it short games suck if they're 4x
      no short games .... i take out threats before they are real threats. Im not sitting back waiting for guys like you to build a navy 40 days into game.
      No need to get all serious lol. If you took more time to read what I said over you'd know I was just stating my perspective and not challenging you. If your trying to insult me though I advise against it.
      not insulting... stating facts. countries that sit back never win and good players wll see what you are trying to build and take you out.
      You cant really say if im that kind of player since you dont really know. Plus im not. I was stating that it's more fun to have a long game in my opinion since its a heck lot of fun and you always gain some new friends and allies along the way :D

      Anyways before this goes too far im going to direct the convo back to the topic of this Forum Post! What are the rest of your thoughts to anyone who's active on this thread?
    • (This quoting chain is getting really long so I'll just end it here)

      You (Buckeyechamp) are correct in saying that the best way to win is to eliminate all active people (threats!) as quickly as possible.

      However, the most fun I've had are in games lasting 100+ days, (in 4x, of course,) where there were multiple active coalitions.
      ...That being said, I have never won any of those games, but I have gotten more serotonin from those games then actual wins.

      Edit: it seems that xXWolfXx has responded quicker than I have. My slow fingers -__-
      "Dealer of Death has counted to infinity... twice"
      -Kurtvonstein
    • xXWolfXx wrote:

      Buckeyechamp wrote:

      xXWolfXx wrote:

      Buckeyechamp wrote:

      xXWolfXx wrote:

      Buckeyechamp wrote:

      80 day games ?? geeze. Im winning in 40 days; think longest was 60 days.
      A short game just means you didnt have much of a challenge. A long game is game that's filled with tons of twists, excitement, real fun, boring grinding days and whatnot. If you think about it short games suck if they're 4x
      no short games .... i take out threats before they are real threats. Im not sitting back waiting for guys like you to build a navy 40 days into game.
      No need to get all serious lol. If you took more time to read what I said over you'd know I was just stating my perspective and not challenging you. If your trying to insult me though I advise against it.
      not insulting... stating facts. countries that sit back never win and good players wll see what you are trying to build and take you out.
      You cant really say if im that kind of player since you dont really know. Plus im not. I was stating that it's more fun to have a long game in my opinion since its a heck lot of fun and you always gain some new friends and allies along the way :D
      Anyways before this goes too far im going to direct the convo back to the topic of this Forum Post! What are the rest of your thoughts to anyone who's active on this thread?
      well you took it off topic.. when I was discussing with OP. And you added zero to this thread.
      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp
    • Buckeyechamp wrote:

      xXWolfXx wrote:

      Buckeyechamp wrote:

      xXWolfXx wrote:

      Buckeyechamp wrote:

      xXWolfXx wrote:

      Buckeyechamp wrote:

      80 day games ?? geeze. Im winning in 40 days; think longest was 60 days.
      A short game just means you didnt have much of a challenge. A long game is game that's filled with tons of twists, excitement, real fun, boring grinding days and whatnot. If you think about it short games suck if they're 4x
      no short games .... i take out threats before they are real threats. Im not sitting back waiting for guys like you to build a navy 40 days into game.
      No need to get all serious lol. If you took more time to read what I said over you'd know I was just stating my perspective and not challenging you. If your trying to insult me though I advise against it.
      not insulting... stating facts. countries that sit back never win and good players wll see what you are trying to build and take you out.
      You cant really say if im that kind of player since you dont really know. Plus im not. I was stating that it's more fun to have a long game in my opinion since its a heck lot of fun and you always gain some new friends and allies along the way :D Anyways before this goes too far im going to direct the convo back to the topic of this Forum Post! What are the rest of your thoughts to anyone who's active on this thread?
      well you took it off topic.. when I was discussing with OP. And you added zero to this thread.
      Like I stated before lets stop this discussion before it goes too far. Let's move past this and stay on topic of the thread :D
    • Second Cannae wrote:

      (This quoting chain is getting really long so I'll just end it here)

      You (Buckeyechamp) are correct in saying that the best way to win is to eliminate all active people (threats!) as quickly as possible.

      However, the most fun I've had are in games lasting 100+ days, (in 4x, of course,) where there were multiple active coalitions.
      ...That being said, I have never won any of those games, but I have gotten more serotonin from those games then actual wins.

      Edit: it seems that xXWolfXx has responded quicker than I have. My slow fingers -__-
      He's right, I do agree lol.

      Yeah, those games are what make CON fun for everybody. Long heated battles, twists and turns, everybody loves a good unexpected alliance here and there!

      Haha, gotta have those quick fingers! Plus I suppose its my job now lol. We all have or had those days bro lol. Slow fingers are a pain when your writing those long essays lol
    • xXWolfXx wrote:

      Buckeyechamp wrote:

      xXWolfXx wrote:

      Buckeyechamp wrote:

      xXWolfXx wrote:

      Buckeyechamp wrote:

      xXWolfXx wrote:

      Buckeyechamp wrote:

      80 day games ?? geeze. Im winning in 40 days; think longest was 60 days.
      A short game just means you didnt have much of a challenge. A long game is game that's filled with tons of twists, excitement, real fun, boring grinding days and whatnot. If you think about it short games suck if they're 4x
      no short games .... i take out threats before they are real threats. Im not sitting back waiting for guys like you to build a navy 40 days into game.
      No need to get all serious lol. If you took more time to read what I said over you'd know I was just stating my perspective and not challenging you. If your trying to insult me though I advise against it.
      not insulting... stating facts. countries that sit back never win and good players wll see what you are trying to build and take you out.
      You cant really say if im that kind of player since you dont really know. Plus im not. I was stating that it's more fun to have a long game in my opinion since its a heck lot of fun and you always gain some new friends and allies along the way :D Anyways before this goes too far im going to direct the convo back to the topic of this Forum Post! What are the rest of your thoughts to anyone who's active on this thread?
      well you took it off topic.. when I was discussing with OP. And you added zero to this thread.
      Like I stated before lets stop this discussion before it goes too far. Let's move past this and stay on topic of the thread :D
      then stop responding.
      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp