Opinions on the season 8 unit/Elite Attack Aircraft

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    • After reading your comment carefully i think i forgot to specify that i was meaning that:

      (Sorry if you can't see it.)

      This is the first shown stats of the EA, at that time i didn't know the REAL stats that shows the general damage to other units.

      The damage and DEF in the image shows the DMG that it deals to other air units (excluding HELIS.) and that's why i underestimated it, because i thought that was the general damage that it deals to ALL the units.

      About the SAM turrets, based on my other gameplays i've suffered to take down a 6 stacked SAM turret position, and why? Because it was max ugpraded.

      I will be waiting for your answer. :D
      National Guards Should Not Be Underestimated 8)

    • Yes, the UI shows improperly the stats, it's a known bug. Reference should be the tech panel, that gives every needed information.

      About SAMs... Killing them with Strike Fighters is (or should be) the equivalent of charging Cavalry into pikes.

      With enough cavalry you may, ultimately, break the pike line, but it should always be seen as "tactical lunacy". If charging head-on pikes with cavalry is tactically sound in any game, then the game is not properly made.
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.

    • KoopKoopyGuy wrote:

      It's just great, very great. I used to underestimate them when i saw that they had a very low HP but then i got damned when Iraq attacked me, all of my units were annihilated in 23 real life minutes and i lost the game in 1 real life day. But if it's not stacked with ASF then it can be a easy target for other ASFS. (Especially naval ones) and it's probably a alternative for the expensive heavy bombers that require a lot of days to start being mobilized, they are cheap, easy to use and don't require too much upgrades to be a beast... probably one of the BEST units in-game 8)


      (But there is a big play here again, they are a very easy target for SAM turrets because of their low HPs, so be careful with that...)
      ]
      Just adding that you shouldn't stack EAA with ASF:

      - ASFs are more expensive, so their HP are on average more valuable, and mediocre ground attack so losing HP against ground target isn't really worth it
      -ASFs have more range and a radar so are better used for scouting for the EAA rather than ground attacking in the same stack
      -If your EAA get attack by enemy ASFs, it is a fairly bad trade due to EAA point defense against ASF, cheaper costs and high HP, but your ASF should be used to counter attack specifically enemy (now weaken) ASFs, rather than stacked together


      Happy hunting !

    • CaptainGalette wrote:

      Just adding that you shouldn't stack EAA with ASF:
      - ASFs are more expensive, so their HP are on average more valuable, and mediocre ground attack so losing HP against ground target isn't really worth it
      -ASFs have more range and a radar so are better used for scouting for the EAA rather than ground attacking in the same stack
      -If your EAA get attack by enemy ASFs, it is a fairly bad trade due to EAA point defense against ASF, cheaper costs and high HP, but your ASF should be used to counter attack specifically enemy (now weaken) ASFs, rather than stacked together


      Happy hunting !
      There are soooo many unspoken assumptions embedded in that general rule.

      I'll just write that there are plenty of situations when it does make sense to stack ASF with EAAs.

      I recommend investing time in recognizing when you are or are not in one of those situations instead of relying on overly broad rules that can lead you astray.

    • Eh, I like to stack 4 EAA and 1 ASF simply for the damage distribution.
      When looking at stacking units, how "expensive" their HP is doesn't really matter; its more important to look at how fast you can replenish that HP. You will (should) have more ASF than EAA simply because EAA is limited in its availability while ASF arent.
      I am The Baseline for opinions

    • Im so confused now, i've joined the game only 1 month ago and i really don't know what side to choose... ;( the little that i know is that its not wrong to use ASFs to attack ground targets, they will just deal less damage.

      I may be good but there are still much more things that i need to learn about air units..


      By the way, i've got a question:


      Should EAs be stacked with ASFs to guarantee protection against other ASFs???
      National Guards Should Not Be Underestimated 8)

      The post was edited 2 times, last by KoopKoopyGuy ().

    • KoopKoopyGuy wrote:

      Im so confused now, i've joined the game only 1 month ago and i really don't know what side to choose... ;( the little that i know is that its not wrong to use ASFs to attack ground targets, they will just deal less damage.

      I may be good but there are still much more things that i need to learn about air units..


      By the way, i've got a question:


      Should EAs be stacked with ASFs to guarantee protection against other ASFs???
      Ofc you should pick my side since I am right.

      When stacking EAA and ASF you have to keep in mind that the more ASF you put into it the worse it performs in killing ground units, the more EAA you put into it the worse its against ground units.

      As I said earlier I prefer adding like one ASF to the stack to eat up most of the dmg taken and let the EAA operate longer. However,I wouldnt stack them with ASF to provide protection against ASF; simply because 5 ASF will trump a stack with EAA and a few ASF. So I‘d advise against it. It would IMO only be worth to stack ASF for protection if you dont check frequently enough to protect your EAA otherwise but even then I wouldnt really put more than 2 ASF into one stack. Keep in mind the EAA boosts the whole stack, so more EAA = more boosts. If my math is right a 5stack consisting of 3 EAA and 2 ASF (all max) deals about 55 dmg to aircraft.

      So no, you should not stack them but it’s still an option if you’re desperate
      I am The Baseline for opinions

    • Teburu wrote:

      KoopKoopyGuy wrote:

      Im so confused now, i've joined the game only 1 month ago and i really don't know what side to choose... ;( the little that i know is that its not wrong to use ASFs to attack ground targets, they will just deal less damage.

      I may be good but there are still much more things that i need to learn about air units..


      By the way, i've got a question:


      Should EAs be stacked with ASFs to guarantee protection against other ASFs???
      Ofc you should pick my side since I am right.
      When stacking EAA and ASF you have to keep in mind that the more ASF you put into it the worse it performs in killing ground units, the more EAA you put into it the worse its against ground units.

      As I said earlier I prefer adding like one ASF to the stack to eat up most of the dmg taken and let the EAA operate longer. However,I wouldnt stack them with ASF to provide protection against ASF; simply because 5 ASF will trump a stack with EAA and a few ASF. So I‘d advise against it. It would IMO only be worth to stack ASF for protection if you dont check frequently enough to protect your EAA otherwise but even then I wouldnt really put more than 2 ASF into one stack. Keep in mind the EAA boosts the whole stack, so more EAA = more boosts. If my math is right a 5stack consisting of 3 EAA and 2 ASF (all max) deals about 55 dmg to aircraft.

      So no, you should not stack them but it’s still an option if you’re desperate
      So basically, I agree here. One ASF provides radar and some defense if you are not checking the game often, but in all other scenarios, it is worst than 5 EAA (mainly longer to kill ground target, so you take more damage on average)


      Teburu wrote:

      Eh, I like to stack 4 EAA and 1 ASF simply for the damage distribution.
      When looking at stacking units, how "expensive" their HP is doesn't really matter; its more important to look at how fast you can replenish that HP. You will (should) have more ASF than EAA simply because EAA is limited in its availability while ASF arent.
      This I am less convinced. Sure, EAA have limited number but it doesn't make their HP more valuable. If you lose one, you can still replace him no matter what. Or do you mean that it allows you to ground them for repair less often? Then I agree, although I feel it has been a very niche situation (because you take more damage taking more time to kill ground targets AND, it is rare that my number of EAA is multiple of 4).

    • CaptainGalette wrote:

      Teburu wrote:

      KoopKoopyGuy wrote:

      Im so confused now, i've joined the game only 1 month ago and i really don't know what side to choose... ;( the little that i know is that its not wrong to use ASFs to attack ground targets, they will just deal less damage.

      I may be good but there are still much more things that i need to learn about air units..


      By the way, i've got a question:


      Should EAs be stacked with ASFs to guarantee protection against other ASFs???
      Ofc you should pick my side since I am right.When stacking EAA and ASF you have to keep in mind that the more ASF you put into it the worse it performs in killing ground units, the more EAA you put into it the worse its against ground units.

      As I said earlier I prefer adding like one ASF to the stack to eat up most of the dmg taken and let the EAA operate longer. However,I wouldnt stack them with ASF to provide protection against ASF; simply because 5 ASF will trump a stack with EAA and a few ASF. So I‘d advise against it. It would IMO only be worth to stack ASF for protection if you dont check frequently enough to protect your EAA otherwise but even then I wouldnt really put more than 2 ASF into one stack. Keep in mind the EAA boosts the whole stack, so more EAA = more boosts. If my math is right a 5stack consisting of 3 EAA and 2 ASF (all max) deals about 55 dmg to aircraft.

      So no, you should not stack them but it’s still an option if you’re desperate
      So basically, I agree here. One ASF provides radar and some defense if you are not checking the game often, but in all other scenarios, it is worst than 5 EAA (mainly longer to kill ground target, so you take more damage on average)

      Teburu wrote:

      Eh, I like to stack 4 EAA and 1 ASF simply for the damage distribution.
      When looking at stacking units, how "expensive" their HP is doesn't really matter; its more important to look at how fast you can replenish that HP. You will (should) have more ASF than EAA simply because EAA is limited in its availability while ASF arent.
      This I am less convinced. Sure, EAA have limited number but it doesn't make their HP more valuable. If you lose one, you can still replace him no matter what. Or do you mean that it allows you to ground them for repair less often? Then I agree, although I feel it has been a very niche situation (because you take more damage taking more time to kill ground targets AND, it is rare that my number of EAA is multiple of 4).
      You dont need the ASF for radar; just get an actual one. Considering its radar range is barely bigger than patrol it’s completely unnecessary to use it for scouting (doesnt even detect inf) when you can just skip it and use patrol to hit everything inside a radius of 50
      I am The Baseline for opinions

    • In general . . .

      FIRST decide (generally) what you want to do, and THEN put together a stack (or group) of 1 to N units to do THAT.

      DONT decide how to stack units, and then stack them that way regardless of your circumstances.

      When you are deciding what you want to do and what units to use to do it, there are a lot of factors that come into play. A few are:
      • What are you trying to kill/conquer
      • What units do you have on hand
      • Is this a single battle or part of several of battles that will be close together in time
      • Do you need to kill the enemy units quickly
      • Can you afford to lose a lot of HP and/or whole units
      • What is the other player likely to do, if they are online and react
      • How far away in distance and time is your next opportunity to heal your units
      • Are you concerned about spreading damage you receive across more than unit type
      • How much do you know about the locations and types of enemy units
      • What units is the other player capable of building and how many are they likely to have
      • Etc, etc, etc.
      That list is long, but . . . Perfection is usually (but not always) the enemy of good-enough-for-the-next-few-actions.

      Plenty of these considerations get rolled up into typically deciding to just reuse some nearby existing stack because that existing stack is a good enough compromise for what you need to do.

      For example:

      If it's early in a game and you have an opportunity to use an existing stack of 3 EAA and 2 ASF to kill a couple of Nat Guards, followed by an opportunity to use the same stack to kill an enemy ASF or two, there is probably no need to modify/tune the stack to perfectly match the opponents you'll fight during the two battles.

      Just use the 3+2 stack for both battles and then after the fighting either send it to your (assumed) hospital if it needs a tune up, and/or swap out the wounded ASFs for (assumed) spare ASFs.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by KFGauss ().

    • Opulon wrote:

      They don't have Low HP.


      They have either higher HP of every plane at every tier (EXCEPT for the heavy bomber T3 that has "2 more HP"), or they have the same HP than the "Europe specifically buffed" Strike FIghter.


      They are "a less easy target for SAM turrets" than other planes, while it's true it remains their weakness (anti-plane is dangerous to planes)
      See! They are already hopelessly crippled, "while it's true it remains their weakness " awful glaring weakness. Below average, ... Does the Elite Attack Aircraft need a buff? WHA?
      *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***
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    • This thread has managed to stay alive for 13 "pages" according to my browser.

      I've casually followed along, and I'm sort-of disappointed that I don't recall a single (non-obvious) rigorously supported conclusion (from me or anyone else) I would want to use running a business.

      Without studying this thread intensely and then spending hours sorting the wheat from the chaff, plus spending more hours integrating what's written here into a model of how the entire game is intended to work, I don't think the many opinions here could be rigorously integrated into business decisions.

      So . . .

      Does anyone know if there is a written game-design model that governs how the existing (and proposed) units interact (are supposed to interact in the hands of a competent user)?

      Is there a rigorous way Dorado evaluates ideas (on paper) before trying them out?

      Are there standardized criteria Dorado uses to evaluate ideas before trying them out?

      I understand that keeping a user-community engaged in a forum is useful, even if that community spends endless hours debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. However, it seems like it would be even more useful to have that community debate ideas that are compatible with the game producer's/designer's intent.

    • Forum used to be a good place for crystalize idea, now it really not, just repeating rambling.
      New design lead is recently actively discussing idea and todo list with staff & teacher, this is a huge plus and topic is commonly picked from common topic community had talk around.

      currently the topic in discussion is kind ‘old’ and lagging behind, i guess the todo list is quite long so no promises.

      anyway, i would encourage you guys to actually bring up interesting topic and keep it alive in healthy way. so they would put it on todo list.
      This post was made by Leader of the Church of ROAD

    • playbabe wrote:

      Forum used to be a good place for crystalize idea, now it really not, just repeating rambling.
      New design lead is recently actively discussing idea and todo list with staff & teacher, this is a huge plus and topic is commonly picked from common topic community had talk around.

      currently the topic in discussion is kind ‘old’ and lagging behind, i guess the todo list is quite long so no promises.

      anyway, i would encourage you guys to actually bring up interesting topic and keep it alive in healthy way. so they would put it on todo list.
      It would help if the design lead used some of their abundant spare time ( ;) ) to write down and share some guidelines, or a template, or evaluation criteria, or any other information/advice that forum users could follow/use when describing ideas.

      What should an idea-submitter supply that would make the design lead's job easier, and make the end-result better?

    • shrek6satan wrote:

      you guys really are dickriders... another op weapon for those who pay who already have inumerous advantages by paying gold for everything. Instead of idk adding new core units so that everyone can enjoy that are balanced and add new ways of playing the game no we instead have to deal with this bs and make you pretty much obligated to invest in ASFs. Fuck this company tbh
      Then WHo TF will play this game? Its litterally play to win you can’t do shit without actually spending money on it . It’ll litterally be a no skill platform with only loyal players staying on it, its popularity will go down and It will be the game’s downfall.
      And with the EAA, nobody, NObODY, will have to research any ground units. The tech treee is useless and would need a redo.
      It just sounds like a skill issue, because if you don’t get ASf before EAA were a thing, how on earth did you have air corverage for your units early game? ….what? Spend money to get SAMs?!!??

      I SEE!!

    • EAA needs a NERF reasons :
      — Its damage its too high, basically a heli killer in stacks of 5 and their damage also makes SAMs almost useless in smaller numbers eg. 2 Unit SAM Anti-air battalian
      — Damage and health makes it extremely hard for fighters to kill them, however it is mainly the damage that makes them so frustrating as punching off 30-40hp of that 5 stack EAA is still going to hurt
      Basically comparing an artillery shell hit in your 3m radius to a mortar in your 3m radius (point is, its still going to suck and hurt hard)
      — Cost efficiency is perhaps the main reasons why trying to go with ASF and SF /Heli strat means own fighters will most likely lose, because there are just so many enemy EAAs and ASF because the Enemy has the capability to save and spend more than you thanks to spamming those high HP EAAs

      Probable points for change on EAA:
      As posted in CON News UPDATES, it is said and CLEARLY STATED, that these new EAA were specifically Anti SAM and units meant to be a mix of Planes and Helis, with the sole purpose of BEING CHEAP.
      “EAA are designed to take hits and still complete their mission, which makes them suitable for attacking units being guarded by anti air. their slow speed means that keeping Air supperiority is extremely important to keep this units from being destroyed”

      —reduced damage 3-5 on EAA since EAA’s health would allow it to get pass SAMs, however would make sure that poor planning and useage would result in some sort of punishment. It would also allow helicopters to no longer be that unpopular. However we could always stick with 10damage on the max tier EAA against Ground units
      2 damage against air units and 4-5 damage against helis
      —reduced HP of about 25-27 hpMAX tier, max tier HP currently is (35hp)
      This would increase the lethality of ASF and not make it an incredible super weapon that beats litterally everything in the game. Considering its capability to be spammed with effectice and cheap price, this is a fair trade. (Skilled players willl get ASF too)

      Price of the EAA should be kept the same as that would make sure that they are spammable and keep their relative purpose in the game as cheap units that are capable of attacking infantry units /armoured units that are within their own anti air range. This reduction in Hp would make sure that the need for air superiority (ASF) will have a larger emphasis and that they will be more balanced out, making the game a much fair platform for people.
      This is my conclusion of this entire 13 Page forum. Feel free to put in your opinions.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by japan samurai ().