OPINION REQUESTED: What happens, 1X guy VS 4X guy, various situations?

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    • OPINION REQUESTED: What happens, 1X guy VS 4X guy, various situations?

      So, I was wondering, suppose we had a guy who primarily plays 1X, and a guy who primarily plays 4X, and they are typical skill levels for their respective groups. Which would be easier, 1X guy beating 4X guy on a 4X map, or 4X guy beating 1X guy on a 1X map?
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    • interesting setup. i guess 1x guy wins. its like playinh soccer in 3000m altitude. as soon as you go down to on 100m your body overexplodes with energy. so the 1 time player can do in these time he dedicates to the game everything faster. but he will hit a limit as to when his physical powers are exhausted:
      @Dorado If you Close the Forum and move everything to Discord you will lose my Feedback for sure.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by kurtvonstein ().

    • Would argue 1x wins; because in 4x activity can incredibly easily become a crutch.

      IMO the basics of time management don’t really change that much so it really comes down to just skill. Considering 4x seems to attract a lot more casual ppl because its faster I‘d argue the average skill level is significantly lower than in 1x games.
      I am The Baseline for opinions
    • I see some bias-ism here

      I think 4x will win, because 4x in 1x map. The 4x payer just got to slow down and be patient. 4xx player maybe more experienced because they g so fast and they know how not to sleep. As a 4x player I expect the worse by day 7. While a 1x player don't have to because it's a slow game. But 1x player may also be more mentally prepared, because they can sleep.
      "YES WE CAN!" - Barack Obama
      Mr. Gorbechev, tear down this wall! - Ronald Reagan
      We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do other things. John F. Kennedy
      The only thing we need to fear is fear itself. - Franklin D. Roosevelt

      Do not let anyone tell you who you are. - Kamala Harris
    • The Destroyer 4 wrote:

      I see some bias-ism here

      I think 4x will win, because 4x in 1x map. The 4x payer just got to slow down and be patient. 4xx player maybe more experienced because they g so fast and they know how not to sleep. As a 4x player I expect the worse by day 7. While a 1x player don't have to because it's a slow game. But 1x player may also be more mentally prepared, because they can sleep.
      >4x Player
      >slow down and be patient
      I somehow doubt that describes the average 4x Player

      Simple fact is that 4x enables activity over skill a lot more than 1x. Keep in mind that wars can usually be decided within 24h. This means that there are in general larger timeframes that the player can do stuff without the other guy reacting because he has literally 4 times the time a 1x player would have to make progress


      Its not about „but x player just has to do y“; its about the general playerbase of each speed mode. And from my experience and observations I can tell you that 4x players are quite impatient, some even play 4x exactly because they dont have that much time to play con.

      1x guy winning on 4x is more likely because activity simply is not as big of a crutch in 1x as it is in 4x. Management of time is fairly easy to scale up/down depending on speed, especially since its such a basic skill for CON.
      The 4x player probably would have a lot harder time in 1x because of the assumed impatience/ simply not being used to wait.

      >complains about bias
      >biased yourself
      hmmm
      I am The Baseline for opinions
    • 1 x player with better tactics and strategy. Would have to sacrifice sleep like 4 x players.

      But 4 x players are usually stackers who send a stack off go to bed and want it 1 day away in morning. So would pick that off 4 x as fast.

      A Key component is sec council; without SC on 4x you are wasting huge amounts of Mob time. In 8 hrs of sleep could build 3 NG units; 1.5 TDs; 1.25 ships on avg. So on 4 x if you aren't constantly checking on buildings and/or mobilizations would be way behind the curb. Even then you would fall behind research curve if not checking every 6 hrs as can not queue research.

      4 x favors Golders : A surprise attack of a stack of whatever paid by gold while you sleep could do a lot of damage.

      Ive crushed wins on both but 4 x just interferes with your Real Life too much.

      4 x favors attacking others off line: so if pick up on activity of other players; can really wipe them while they sleep or work.

      The errors made in a 4x match are compounded. whether a wrong research (change mind); wrong building built in order; wasted RSS; sacrificing troops unnecessarily (all things good strategy players dont do)

      But someone who is a good chess player and a good speed chess player would beat someone who doesnt know how to play chess very well regardless of speed.

      In summary: Someone can not become a good speed chess player without learning how to properly play chess at normal speed. They may not be a great normal speed player. But if just tried to learn chess by only playing speed chess would be very unskilled and may win some fluke games and/or against other players who learned this way; however if played anyone with fundamentals who also can play sped chess would get slaughtered.
      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp

      The post was edited 3 times, last by The Pale Rider ().

    • The Destroyer 4 wrote:

      I see some bias-ism here

      I think 4x will win, because 4x in 1x map. The 4x payer just got to slow down and be patient. 4xx player maybe more experienced because they g so fast and they know how not to sleep. As a 4x player I expect the worse by day 7. While a 1x player don't have to because it's a slow game. But 1x player may also be more mentally prepared, because they can sleep.
      4 games played:

      1 prov won and 90 lost and a 1: 2 negative k/d ratio ...hmmmm. how that work out for you?

      I know the ID you listed as in game isnt yours either (Destroyer1.000).
      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp
    • Lets see DoD ; Teburu; Kurt and myself all have high win pct on both. (ranging from 70 - 90 pct win ratios and combined couple hundred wins)

      Versus opinions of players with in game Aliases with little or no wins and poor stats....hmmmmm. Who would you think would better judge?
      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp
    • I agree that activity is the key to this discussion, in quantity of time and in type of time.

      For example, let’s say that a player can only play 2 hours each day on CoN, and necessarily must maximize that time. The 1x player is best served playing a few minutes each hour. On the other hand, the 4x player can get away with concentrating his time into bigger chunks with well-conceived hit-n-run type operations, which can be more feasible if one only has a few solid hours to play a day as opposed to a few minutes each hour.

      I would definitely say that the 1x player would win, simply because the inactivity crutch can easily flip things around.
      I am Aeneas, duty-bound and known above high air of heaven by my fame, carrying with me in my ships our gods of hearth and home, saved from the foe. I look for Italy to be my fatherland, and my descent is from all-highest Jove.
    • Aeneas of Troy wrote:

      I agree that activity is the key to this discussion, in quantity of time and in type of time.

      For example, let’s say that a player can only play 2 hours each day on CoN, and necessarily must maximize that time. The 1x player is best served playing a few minutes each hour. On the other hand, the 4x player can get away with concentrating his time into bigger chunks with well-conceived hit-n-run type operations, which can be more feasible if one only has a few solid hours to play a day as opposed to a few minutes each hour.
      But if a 4 x player plays hard for 2 hrs which equals 8 hrs in game and absent 22 hrs = 3 days and 16 hrs. How do you think that 3.75 days absence of activity would play out in regards to builds; research; mobilizations; changes of tactics etc. 3.75 days is an eternity in CoN.

      How much can you gain in 8 hrs versus lose in 3.75 days in gme time? i can take a whole continent in 4 days when get rolling
      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp
    • I love how this whole conversation was designed to trigger "supporter effect" aka "my type of mode would win because it's the one i like", and ultimately we reached the point of :

      - a Good 4X player would beat a good 1X player on a 4X.
      - a Good 1X player would beat a good 4X player on a 1X.

      I gotta ride with Pale Rider on this one (pun intended), especially with his comparison of chess.

      I don't exclude one or the other.

      However, i'd like to point out that ultimately, the guy that wrecks you in X1 is the same than the guy that wrecks you in X4.

      The only difference i witnessed is how much commitment "this guy" has to offer the game at "that precise moment", and the reason why he does so is far from the concern of most of the players.

      Lambda User : I play 4X because 1X are too slow.
      High Skill User : 4X are exhausting due to the impossibility to sleep more than by 15 minutes naps to be at minimum efficiency. I launch 4X when i can be sure of my 20/24 IRL commitment.

      So... in theory, depends.
      In fine, out of what i can see on the field : High skill 1X and 4X players are the exact same people.
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • The Pale Rider wrote:

      The Destroyer 4 wrote:

      I see some bias-ism here

      I think 4x will win, because 4x in 1x map. The 4x payer just got to slow down and be patient. 4xx player maybe more experienced because they g so fast and they know how not to sleep. As a 4x player I expect the worse by day 7. While a 1x player don't have to because it's a slow game. But 1x player may also be more mentally prepared, because they can sleep.
      4 games played:
      1 prov won and 90 lost and a 1: 2 negative k/d ratio ...hmmmm. how that work out for you?

      I know the ID you listed as in game isnt yours either (Destroyer1.000).
      What are you talking about?

      I changed my account multiple times I have like 5... just incase. ;)

      Are you talking about my k/d someone elses or yours?
      "YES WE CAN!" - Barack Obama
      Mr. Gorbechev, tear down this wall! - Ronald Reagan
      We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do other things. John F. Kennedy
      The only thing we need to fear is fear itself. - Franklin D. Roosevelt

      Do not let anyone tell you who you are. - Kamala Harris
    • My comment is similar to '@Opulon's.

      If you want to have a useful conversation about this, I think you have to stick carefully to a single scenario.

      Imagine the two players:
      • Have identical CoN knowledge, skills, and intuition,
      • Have identical total time to spend playing,
      • Have their free time at identical times of the day,
      • Live in the same time zone,
      • Sleep identical amounts,
      • Sleep at the same times of the day,
      • and etc.
      The only difference between the two is that one likes to usually play 4x games and the other usually likes to play 1x games.

      Now - With that level playing field (and Opulon's comments) in mind, you can avoid talking past each other.
    • KFGauss wrote:

      My comment is similar to '@Opulon's.

      If you want to have a useful conversation about this, I think you have to stick carefully to a single scenario.

      Imagine the two players:
      • Have identical CoN knowledge, skills, and intuition,
      • Have identical total time to spend playing,
      • Have their free time at identical times of the day,
      • Live in the same time zone,
      • Sleep identical amounts,
      • Sleep at the same times of the day,
      • and etc.
      The only difference between the two is that one likes to usually play 4x games and the other usually likes to play 1x games.

      Now - With that level playing field (and Opulon's comments) in mind, you can avoid talking past each other.
      But thats not the case. 4 x players learned smash and grab playing against other 4 x smash and grabbers. Would imagine pct of quitters on 4 x is higher than 1 x so likelihood of smashing AI is higher... no proof. But only takes 1/2 a day of real time inactive to go AI in 4 times; so logic would dictate a higher AI pct on those maps.

      Back to Chess Analogy. If I just taught you basic game mechanics of each piece with no other instructions and set you on your way to go play speed chess against same self taught speed chessers. Do you think either would learn any proper chess strategy. No they would both smash into each other and the winner would think they know how to play chess. Now same scenario of two noobs self learning on standard chess against each other; would learn strategy faster as would have more time to think and see impacts of moves/ combinations.
      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp
    • The Pale Rider wrote:

      Aeneas of Troy wrote:

      I agree that activity is the key to this discussion, in quantity of time and in type of time.

      For example, let’s say that a player can only play 2 hours each day on CoN, and necessarily must maximize that time. The 1x player is best served playing a few minutes each hour. On the other hand, the 4x player can get away with concentrating his time into bigger chunks with well-conceived hit-n-run type operations, which can be more feasible if one only has a few solid hours to play a day as opposed to a few minutes each hour.
      But if a 4 x player plays hard for 2 hrs which equals 8 hrs in game and absent 22 hrs = 3 days and 16 hrs. How do you think that 3.75 days absence of activity would play out in regards to builds; research; mobilizations; changes of tactics etc. 3.75 days is an eternity in CoN.
      How much can you gain in 8 hrs versus lose in 3.75 days in gme time? i can take a whole continent in 4 days when get rolling
      I think you missed my point, which is that in a short amount of concentrated time, a 4x player can utterly wreck an opponent at the point of declaring war. If you add a few short check-ins to build/research/monitor situation, it can be considered by some to be more feasible (while NOT ideal) to play 4x than 1x. While it is very possible that someone might wreck you in your absence, at least there is a possibility that you can do the same. For those with difficult schedules, this option may not present in 1x since battles last longer.
      I am Aeneas, duty-bound and known above high air of heaven by my fame, carrying with me in my ships our gods of hearth and home, saved from the foe. I look for Italy to be my fatherland, and my descent is from all-highest Jove.
    • The Destroyer 4 wrote:

      The Pale Rider wrote:

      The Destroyer 4 wrote:

      I see some bias-ism here

      I think 4x will win, because 4x in 1x map. The 4x payer just got to slow down and be patient. 4xx player maybe more experienced because they g so fast and they know how not to sleep. As a 4x player I expect the worse by day 7. While a 1x player don't have to because it's a slow game. But 1x player may also be more mentally prepared, because they can sleep.
      4 games played:1 prov won and 90 lost and a 1: 2 negative k/d ratio ...hmmmm. how that work out for you?

      I know the ID you listed as in game isnt yours either (Destroyer1.000).
      What are you talking about?
      I changed my account multiple times I have like 5... just incase. ;)

      Are you talking about my k/d someone elses or yours?
      Stats from your listed in game Profile. If I had stats that bad maybe id make 5 accounts too ;) What are your other 4?
      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp
    • My The detroyer 1 account (save)

      My destroyer 1.000 account (save)

      My The destroyer 4 account (CON forum purposes)

      My The World Destroyer Account (CON game servers)

      I only have 4 actually

      Which one you checked?
      "YES WE CAN!" - Barack Obama
      Mr. Gorbechev, tear down this wall! - Ronald Reagan
      We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do other things. John F. Kennedy
      The only thing we need to fear is fear itself. - Franklin D. Roosevelt

      Do not let anyone tell you who you are. - Kamala Harris
    • I mostly get bored and or have school and that's why I leave or go awol in games. That's why my K/D is not so good.
      "YES WE CAN!" - Barack Obama
      Mr. Gorbechev, tear down this wall! - Ronald Reagan
      We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do other things. John F. Kennedy
      The only thing we need to fear is fear itself. - Franklin D. Roosevelt

      Do not let anyone tell you who you are. - Kamala Harris
    • The Destroyer 4 wrote:

      I mostly get bored and or have school and that's why I leave or go awol in games. That's why my K/D is not so good.
      Kind of proves my point about 4 x..lol

      But you have listed (Destroyer1.000)

      OK the Destroyer1 - 330 Games Spammed and 5 wins (no solos) neg k/d ratio; neg prov ratio. thats a 1.5 pct win ratio ;(

      I think Id take my chances with 90 pct win ratio and 10- 1 kill ratio.
      "And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him "

      aka ...The killer formerly known as BuckeyeChamp

      The post was edited 2 times, last by The Pale Rider ().