Debunking the Arms Industry Myth

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    • playbabe wrote:

      obviously, using result in the map that fervor expanding due to higher city density to claim that expanding is better.
      where all the math is gone? i though we are gonna use something valid instead now it just 'but my experince'

      Edit: I see you posting more details in another thread, and even more point to shoot you down, 4x game is fervor the expanding with lower resources production but faster combat, and Overkill also have victory point to take to earn massive income which also fervor expanding. stop taking one specific map to apply logic to all the rest

      Just out of interest, which maps are the ones that don't favour expanding?

    • Interesting. I only really play WW3 (x1 speed). I might try one of these Cold War games, just out of interest, but I haven't got around to it yet.

      Do you think you could explain to me why the WW3 map doesn't favour expansion? Because my perception of it is that it does.

      I mean, it's a fairly simple equation on the face of it: your resource demands are going to increase over the course of the game; therefore, you need to increase your resource production in order to keep up with it.

      Expanding the number of resource-producing cities and regions that you control seems to me to give you a much bigger and faster return on your investment in the units you'll need to achieve that aim than spending your resources on building arms industry upgrades in your cities. Ideally, I'd want to be doing both at once, but I tend to find that I can't afford to do both at once until probably the second half of the game at least. If I were to prioritize arms industry upgrades above building more units to help me expand, I'm pretty sure I would reach the resource bottleneck much sooner.

      Is that not the case?

    • Expanding too fast isn’t too great because there is once, I smacked a guy who expanded too fast pretty quick. Got his capital, his supply cities, his fuel cities. And then got pushed back because I destroyed the airport in his capital ( whcih was mistake) and wasn’t really using a good strat ( mot spam + ASF)
      His ally hand a bunch of MAA… so you guess what happened. (At least 1 MAA in each stack) He got rescued.
      The point is going too fast too early is going to come with consequences. And if I had used a better tatic… than I could still fight his Allies back much better.
      So expanding quickly instead of building arms industry is… questionable in my opinion.

    • My strategy: Bundle up your units on an active player's border day 2-3. Do not waste time taking AI countries unless it is important, such as Dhaka.

      2. Build an arms industry is the cities that need a arms industry. Port city for some ships. Check. Supplies? Check. No fuel? Sure I'll save up some money to build some.

      3. I like to allocate each city for a specific purpose, such as building AA, Ships, Planes, and then the rest can go to building motorized.

      4. I always start my first wave of motorized infantries in the start and usually after that wave I am busy spending resources elsewhere, such as on improving my economy and research.

      5. Now that you have a better economy, you can settle down because usually my units are all split up taking care of the cities until they hit above 33 percent.

      6. I keep continuing to build arms industries. I have a habit of just buying stuff after I hit the requirement to do so. This usually leads me to have a units deficit, an economic deficit, or a research deficit.

      7. Quit the game because you feel like you weren't active enough and you must do the next game perfectly.

    • KFGauss wrote:

      Something that I forgot to include in my post above, and that Pale Buckeye tends to underemphasize. - My comments are almost universally about PUBLIC games - The opposition in those is generally pretty clueless (more clueless, than me at least). For that reason expansion in public games is easy, and outpacing other player's economies is pretty easy (especially in BGUSA & FP).

      One of these days I hope to write a little simulation that encodes the expertise of Playbabe and others, and that lets anyone who cares to play what-if games with Arms Industries, captured cities, morale, population, etc. effects. The purpose will be letting users develop an economic approach that best suits their playing style.
      That's not a public game, that's a sandbox
      "Le patriotisme, c'est aimer son pays. Le nationalisme, c'est détester celui des autres."-Charles De Gaulle, Leader of Free France in World War 2.
      English: "Patriotism is to love your country. Nationalism is hating that of others."

    • KFGauss wrote:

      ewac123 wrote:

      That's not a public game, that's a sandbox
      So, you violently agree with me?
      I suppose that's good.
      No, I mean, you don't need cranes and bulldozers to make a sand castle, do you?

      Flashpoint is so obsolete you could win with ASF and NG and nothing else.
      "Le patriotisme, c'est aimer son pays. Le nationalisme, c'est détester celui des autres."-Charles De Gaulle, Leader of Free France in World War 2.
      English: "Patriotism is to love your country. Nationalism is hating that of others."

    • ewac123 wrote:

      KFGauss wrote:

      ewac123 wrote:

      That's not a public game, that's a sandbox
      So, you violently agree with me?I suppose that's good.
      No, I mean, you don't need cranes and bulldozers to make a sand castle, do you?
      Flashpoint is so obsolete you could win with ASF and NG and nothing else.
      OK, if you want to be that way about it.

      I wrote that it is especially easy to expand quickly in the FP and BGUSA public game maps.

      You decided to launch yourself on a tangent claiming that FP and BGUSA aren't "games".

      My advice to you - Ask your friends for spare change. When you accumulate 25 cents, go out and buy yourself a clue.

      FP and BGUSA most definitely are part of the CoN game's collection of scenarios.

      If you play one of them you are playing a CoN game.

      Duh. Next topic please.

    • KFGauss wrote:

      ewac123 wrote:

      KFGauss wrote:

      ewac123 wrote:

      That's not a public game, that's a sandbox
      So, you violently agree with me?I suppose that's good.
      No, I mean, you don't need cranes and bulldozers to make a sand castle, do you?Flashpoint is so obsolete you could win with ASF and NG and nothing else.
      OK, if you want to be that way about it.
      I wrote that it is especially easy to expand quickly in the FP and BGUSA public game maps.

      You decided to launch yourself on a tangent claiming that FP and BGUSA aren't "games".

      My advice to you - Ask your friends for spare change. When you accumulate 25 cents, go out and buy yourself a clue.

      FP and BGUSA most definitely are part of the CoN game's collection of scenarios.

      If you play one of them you are playing a CoN game.

      Duh. Next topic please.
      Last time I checked, CoN's advertisement talked about fighting real players

      I don't think bots are humans so...
      "Le patriotisme, c'est aimer son pays. Le nationalisme, c'est détester celui des autres."-Charles De Gaulle, Leader of Free France in World War 2.
      English: "Patriotism is to love your country. Nationalism is hating that of others."

    • ewac123 wrote:

      KFGauss wrote:

      ewac123 wrote:

      KFGauss wrote:

      ewac123 wrote:

      That's not a public game, that's a sandbox
      So, you violently agree with me?I suppose that's good.
      No, I mean, you don't need cranes and bulldozers to make a sand castle, do you?Flashpoint is so obsolete you could win with ASF and NG and nothing else.
      OK, if you want to be that way about it.I wrote that it is especially easy to expand quickly in the FP and BGUSA public game maps.

      You decided to launch yourself on a tangent claiming that FP and BGUSA aren't "games".

      My advice to you - Ask your friends for spare change. When you accumulate 25 cents, go out and buy yourself a clue.

      FP and BGUSA most definitely are part of the CoN game's collection of scenarios.

      If you play one of them you are playing a CoN game.

      Duh. Next topic please.
      Last time I checked, CoN's advertisement talked about fighting real players
      I don't think bots are humans so...
      Okay.
      Then no gamemode except Alliance vs Alliance is eligible for the argument.
      I am The Baseline for opinions

    • ewac123 wrote:

      KFGauss wrote:

      ewac123 wrote:

      That's not a public game, that's a sandbox
      So, you violently agree with me?I suppose that's good.
      No, I mean, you don't need cranes and bulldozers to make a sand castle, do you?
      Flashpoint is so obsolete you could win with ASF and NG and nothing else.
      Has someone ever tried that?
      Overkill is an Awesome Map! :D

    • ewac123 wrote:

      Last time I checked, CoN's advertisement talked about fighting real players
      I don't think bots are humans so...
      Duh again.

      Please tell me which CoN Game scenario/variant you play that doesn't include any NPC positions (such as playable positions that are never occupied or are abandoned), or perhaps admit the statement you're trying to defend was just a bit exaggerated.

    • Bigtallnerd419 wrote:

      ewac123 wrote:

      KFGauss wrote:

      ewac123 wrote:

      That's not a public game, that's a sandbox
      So, you violently agree with me?I suppose that's good.
      No, I mean, you don't need cranes and bulldozers to make a sand castle, do you?Flashpoint is so obsolete you could win with ASF and NG and nothing else.
      Has someone ever tried that?
      Unfortunately, this is one of those rare instances that armour (in the sense AFVs since AA) is actually good, even getting like 3 SAMS is enough. :rolleyes:
      "War does not determine who is right; only who is left."

      Always strive to be better
      Don't try and be the best
      A better world is always within out fingertips
      But Utopia just causes more stress.

    • Ok so I just got here I'm playing my 4th game won my first one (north America only started as Georgia) started taking stuff early on and resurching but mostly upgraded infinity troops, then air n navy. However most of the game I kept running into resource problems for the lac of experience in this game, though I've played several like it years ago. My main troops ended up being national guard and while I lost more troops then I killed. I was able to keep pushing past the others because I never stopped taking more and more cities. I would do it dif. Probably now and I know there were a few inactive players . But in the smaller games I would say if a first time player of the game can win by producing troops as quickly as possible and never stop pushing. Then smaller games groups are much more important. And a good alliance with other active players.

      was doing well in second until I got reminded about betrayal and double agents in these type games. ( Thanks for the reeducation).

      And 3rd game just wasn't active enough. First day for a 4x game.

      But ultimately the main thang that isn't figured by resource production. Having a reliable team. Because you can play the perfect game but if you don't have any backing,. Them guys that have 3-5 active ok players can just sabatage you and corrupt your citizens. From the other side of the world and while your trying to get your people back in line move on in and hit the other cities or even just the provence to take away your cash flow. I really like this game by the way developers did a good job covering most all the main factors. I was wondering has anyone ever had a game without going to war Just upgrading economy. And and simciting it out til the end of the season? That would be kinda dif and fun(ny). Anyways just sharing my experience thus far.

      Still only been here a month and just now getting to the forums and hope to get on the discord channel soon.


      Thanks
      Vince. a.k.a. (rage1177)(rage11377)(rage113)&(rage77) not all on here but around the gaming world.

    • Rage1177 wrote:

      I was wondering has anyone ever had a game without going to war Just upgrading economy. And and simciting it out til the end of the season?
      I tried it once, just as an experiment.

      I played as Morocco on the WW3 map. Luckily Algeria and Spain weren't very active for very long, so I was left to my own devices for quite some time. I went for missiles right from the off, got 2 or 3 BM Subs out quite early so could hit back hard if someone attacked me, but I didn't end up needing them until much much later. I also got a Submarine Commander and quite a lot of UAVs to use as Cruise Missile launchers.

      Then I just sat back and worked on my tech research and my economy, and waited to see what would happen. By about Day 25 or 30 or something, there was only 1 major coalition and they were working their way steadily across the map towards victory. One of them took over Europe and another took North Africa. The African one attacked me first.

      I had L6 Infantry, L4 TDs, L3 Radar, SAMs and MLRS (probably L4 but I can't remember), maybe some MAA? No air force except my L1 fighter; a small number of Corvettes for spotting. Repelled his half-arsed tank attacks and hit his homeland with ballistic missiles. That got their attention, and the one who controlled Spain joined in as well: my SAMs killed a lot of his Strike Fighters, and r stopped using them after that. I sunk a few low level Destroyers (all they had as a navy) and some troop convoys, blasted his Homeland with ballistic missiles as well. Then the coalition leader got involved and hit me with ICBMs. I had a few TDS, but not enough for that - that was my big mistake. After that it was effectively over, but I carried on fighting for a bit, just to keep them honest.

      Was quite good fun overall. But I think you have to choose your country carefully (Morocco is fairly small, so you can concentrate your forces more easily; it has decent geographic advantages for defence; importantly, it had rural provinces with Rare Material and Supplies, which I could develop), and you have to be a little bit lucky about who your neighbours are (in terms of player skill and activity level). Obviously you're not going to win the game playing like that (unless EVERYBODY else is a total moron), but once in a while I quite like trying out different stuff that I wouldn't normally do.