Battle Tactics

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    • Battle Tactics

      At the start of each hour of melee combat, each side selects one tactic to use.
      The choices are cross referenced to produce a modification to the firepower for each side, and the computer adjusts the respective combat values to reflect that.

      There are four choices; General Assault, Flank Attack, Hedgehog, and Withdraw.

      Withdraw is basically retreat, if successful, your forces leave the battlefield without further losses.
      If not successful, then you suffer a serious limitation on your combat power.

      General Assault is attacking along the entire front equally. Good against Hedgehog and Withdraw, but weak against Flank Attacks.

      Flank Attack is good against a General Assault and Withdraw, but fairs poorly against Hedgehog.

      Hedgehog works best against Flank Attack, and is at a disadvantage dealing with General Assault.

      When a player faces an AI opponent, or if the opposing player does not select a tactic, the computer will do so.
      The computer will not allow Withdraw as part of its choices unless seriously outnumbered by the opponent.


      The following chart summarizes the effects of each tactic in relation to the others.

      GA = General Assault
      FL = Flank Attack
      HE = Hedgehog Defense
      WI = Withdraw

      Friendly Tactic FOE TACTIC
      GA FLHEWI
      GAN-15+15+30
      FL+15N-15+15
      HE-15+15N*
      WI-30-15**



      Legend
      The numbers reflect the percentage change in your combat value.
      N = No Change in either sides combat value.
      * = No combat takes place this hour. Each side that selected Withdraw retreats from the battle without further losses.


      Example:
      You choose a General Assault (GA), your opponent selects Flank Attack (FL).
      You will fight in the next hour with a 15% drop in your combat power.

      _______________________________________________________________________________________
      EDIT: ADDITION (Thanks to Aeneas of Troy)
      There are also bonuses for unit types based on the tactic selected:

      +10% Attack bonus for Tactic selected:
      GA = Infantry Research unit types.
      FL = Armor Research unit types.
      HE = Support Research unit types.

      Example:
      If you choose GA as your tactic, then all of your motorized infantry in the battle will increase their attack value by 10%.

      Second Example:
      If you choose GA as your tactic, and your opponent selects FL, then your Motorized Infantry will gain +10% for the tactic you selected, while ALL your troops will lose -15% because of what the enemy picked.
      Thus your Infantry will fight at a net of -5% power (+10-15), while the remainder of your forces will be at a -15% disadvantage.

      If however your foe had selected HE as their tactic, then your infantry would have a +30% boost to combat power, while the rest of your forces had a +15% increase.
      ___________________________________________________________________________________________

      The post was edited 6 times, last by Hydralysk ().

    • Bigtallnerd419 wrote:

      What happens if you're offline? Is one auto-generated? Seems too complicated.
      Good question on what happens if you are offline.
      The explanation given above is in that case, the computer selects a tactic, treating you like an AI player for that hour.

      As for complexity, that is mostly in the explanation of how tactics work.
      As a player, you primarily have just three choices; Attack head on, flank the foe, or dig in.
      The fun part is figuring out what the opponent will do, and selecting a counter for it.
      Each tactical option is good against one other choice, poor against another, and no effect if the foe selects the same as you.
      (Withdraw is a special case. Most players won't be picking it till things get bad for them. Though if you are trading space for time, it could be a benefit.)

    • I mean, the idea is nice. But for the 90% of the playerbase who are noobs that go inactive after building 1 army base and 1 motorized infantry, it just adds another layer of confusion. Also, since CON is a grand strategy game, it should focus less on tactics and more on overall strategy. Still, wanna repeat this, the idea is cool and wouldn't mind it being implmented :thumbsup:
      "War does not determine who is right; only who is left."

      Always strive to be better
      Don't try and be the best
      A better world is always within out fingertips
      But Utopia just causes more stress.
    • Hydralysk wrote:

      At the start of each hour of melee combat, each side selects one tactic to use.
      The choices are cross referenced to produce a modification to the firepower for each side, and the computer adjusts the respective combat values to reflect that.

      There are four choices; General Assault, Flank Attack, Hedgehog, and Withdraw.

      Withdraw is basically retreat, if successful, your forces leave the battlefield without further losses.
      If not successful, then you suffer a serious limitation on your combat power.

      General Assault is attacking along the entire front equally. Good against Hedgehog and Withdraw, but weak against Flank Attacks.

      Flank Attack is good against a General Assault and Withdraw, but fairs poorly against Hedgehog.

      Hedgehog works best against Flank Attack, and is at a disadvantage dealing with General Assault.

      When a player faces an AI opponent, or if the opposing player does not select a tactic, the computer will do so.
      The computer will not allow Withdraw as part of its choices unless seriously outnumbered by the opponent.


      The following chart summarizes the effects of each tactic in relation to the others.

      GA = General Assault
      FL = Flank Attack
      HE = Hedgehog Defense
      WI = Withdraw


      Friendly Tactic FOE TACTIC
      GA FLHEWI
      GAN-15+15+30
      FL+15N-15+15
      HE-15+15N*
      WI-30-15**




      Legend
      The numbers reflect the percentage change in your combat value.
      N = No Change in either sides combat value.
      * = No combat takes place this hour. Each side that selected Withdraw retreats from the battle without further losses.

      Example:
      You choose a General Assault (GA), your opponent selects Flank Attack (FL).
      You will fight in the next hour with a 15% drop in your combat power.




      Where do these choices happen?? How can I choose them??
    • Honestly, my biggest issue with your suggestion is having to re-select every hour and AI picking for you if you're offline. Not having to be active for the duration of combat is one of the major upsides of Melee and having to get on every hour to select a BT kinda ruins that. With AI picking BT when you're offline it essentially adds yet another layer of RNG to the game.
      I think I'd actually prefer if once you pick a BT then you're locked into it until the combat is over


      IMO it could also use some modifiers for being attacker/defender.


      I'm also not sure exactly what the goal of such a mechanic would be, it certainly doesn't help with making Melee vs Melee more decisive, the boni are simply too small for that
      I am The Baseline for opinions
    • There is a board game called Pyrrhus Imperator which has an excellent battle mechanic. Although set in ancient times, with units such as skirmishers, phalanx, cavalry, etc, the style could be emulated. (elviejotercio.tripod.com/vv143-pyrrhus.pdf)

      You get a choice of 4 battle tactics: “Wings”, “General Attack”, “Screening”, and “Frontal Attack”. “Wings” gives a bonus to all your cavalry troops. “General Attack” gives a you a re-roll of the die (in the case that unit, typically a powerful unit, didn’t do adequate damage). “Screening” gives a bonus to all skirmish type troops. And “Frontal Attack” give a bonus to all heavy, close combat type troops.


      First the skirmish units individually roll a die and damage immediately applied, then the close combat units roll, damage immediately applied. Whoever deals more damage is determined the winner of the battle. The Battle Tactic bonuses are taken into account throughout the die rolls.

      Then, the battle tactics are compared, Wings destroying Frontal Attack, Frontal Attack destroying General Attack, General Attack destroying Screening, Screening destroying Wings. In such a case, the losers surviving troops are automatically eliminated. All other cases are draws or retreats (though in our case we would go through another round of combat until a player is out of units).


      I could see such a method being used, maybe preset like fire control settings. The ideal Battle Tactic is based on ones units, but can be somewhat predictable, enabling a player to gamble on winning the battle decisively without having to go through another round of combat. Thoughts?
      I am Aeneas, duty-bound and known above high air of heaven by my fame, carrying with me in my ships our gods of hearth and home, saved from the foe. I look for Italy to be my fatherland, and my descent is from all-highest Jove.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Aeneas of Troy ().

    • Teburu wrote:

      1. I think I'd actually prefer if once you pick a BT then you're locked into it until the combat is over


      2. IMO it could also use some modifiers for being attacker/defender.


      3. I'm also not sure exactly what the goal of such a mechanic would be, it certainly doesn't help with making Melee vs Melee more decisive, the boni are simply too small for that
      1. In regards to locking the choice till the end of combat, fine by me. Let the developers decide whether it should be multiple choices or not.

      2. What modifiers do you envision for being the attacker or the defender?

      3. The modifications to combat power are fairly large as is.
      Whatever bonus you gain from a tactic in attacking the foe, they lose an equal amount in fighting back.
      That is a minimum 30% swing in firepower combined.

      Having written that, what do you believe the values should be?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Hydralysk ().

    • Aeneas of Troy wrote:



      You get a choice of 4 battle tactics: “Wings”, “General Attack”, “Screening”, and “Frontal Attack”. “Wings” gives a bonus to all your cavalry troops. “General Attack” gives a you a re-roll of the die (in the case that unit, typically a powerful unit, didn’t do adequate damage). “Screening” gives a bonus to all skirmish type troops. And “Frontal Attack” give a bonus to all heavy, close combat type troops.
      Interesting.
      How would you implement that concept of combat bonuses to specific unit types for a given tactic in this game?

    • Hydralysk wrote:

      Interesting.How would you implement that concept of combat bonuses to specific unit types for a given tactic in this game?
      Ok, there are many ways to do this, but here is the easiest way I can think of. Note that the the numbers are very rough guesstimates.

      Wings= 25% bonus for Armor units
      Screening= 25% bonus for Support units.
      Frontal Attack=25% bonus for Infantry units
      General Attack=7% bonus for all units

      (I realize this might not be ideal, but just to get some numbers out there. There could be differences in the bonuses if one is attacking or defending, etc).


      Following a round or two of combat, a winner is determined. Here is the Pursuit Table to determine additional casualties for the loser based on Tactics:

      Key: r= retreat to nearest friendly province, lose additional 50% of army
      sq= status quo-another round of combat
      ad= defeated army destroyed-all surviving units eliminated

      Tactic of ———————Tactic of Loser
      Victor
      —————————————-W— S— FA— GA
      Wings.——————————r —ad —r ——r
      Screening. ——————- r ——r —ad——r
      Frontal Attack ————-r ——r —sq —ad
      General Attack————ad —-r —-r ——r
      I am Aeneas, duty-bound and known above high air of heaven by my fame, carrying with me in my ships our gods of hearth and home, saved from the foe. I look for Italy to be my fatherland, and my descent is from all-highest Jove.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Aeneas of Troy ().

    • Aeneas of Troy wrote:

      Wings= 25% bonus for Armor unitsScreening= 25% bonus for Support units.
      Frontal Attack=25% bonus for Infantry units
      Interesting.

      I have adapted your idea as:

      There are also bonuses for unit types based on the tactic selected:


      +10% Attack bonus for Tactic selected:
      GA = Infantry Research unit types.
      FL = Armor Research unit types.
      HE = Support Research unit types.


      Example:
      If you choose GA as your tactic, then all of your motorized infantry in the battle will increase their attack value by 10%.


      Second Example:
      If you choose GA as your tactic, and your opponent selects FL, then your
      Motorized Infantry will gain +10% for the tactic you selected, while
      ALL your troops will lose -15% because of what the enemy picked.
      Thus your Infantry will fight at a net of -5% power (+10-15), while the remainder of your forces will be at a -15% disadvantage.


      If however your foe had selected HE as their tactic, then your infantry
      would have a +30% boost to combat power, while the rest of your forces
      had a +15% increase.