Rework Melee to Air Combat

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    • Rework Melee to Air Combat

      This is an issue that is going on for months now, ever since the season 8 update.
      Its really a big deal in the first ~5 days of game because that's when most players are still using mot. inf and basic attack helo.

      Currently heli gunship at lvl 1 deals 7 atk damage on unarmored targets with a 50% hp buffer while in air.

      Mot inf at lvl 1 has only 0.3 def on air and 0.6 def on heli.
      \Even mobile aa has to be at least lvl 4 to offer significant resistance to air/heli units, which isnt unlockable until day 11.

      Heli gunship stats against inf/armor improve significantly in first 3-4 levels, mot inf aa stats hardly improve at all until modern inf is unlocked (day 18 or later)

      lvl 1 heli gunship stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.42.15.png

      lvl 1 mot inf stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.49.53.png

      (Note hp level is constant across all terrain)

      The main concern here is that in the early game you wont have much aa defence against heli or even strikers.
      (Strikers arent worth it until lvl 4 either, only 4 atk damage to inf/armor and hardly any collateral damage

      My suggestions:

      1. nerf early lvl heli gunship stats to ~5.0 atk against inf/ ~2.0 against armor, also decrease airborne hp buff for first few levels
      2. tweak mot inf aa defence stats to atl 1.0 against reg air, 1.5 against helis. this is a little more complicated: it should be made so that if a stack of 2 mot inf is attacked by a heli gunship, when the inf units are destroyed the gunship would have about ~one third of hp left.


      Something else that wouldnt hurt would be to tweak early level mobile aa damage to target heli units, as they are more common early game.
      (but still keeping later lvl buffs on reg air units)

      While we're at it there should be a rework on striker damage to buildings in attacked province. Currently only 1 atk distributed on buildings for first lvl. It only makes sense that when a striker is attacking unit(s) in a city, the buildings in the city suffer more damage as well.
      I know strikers/heli gunships are designed for attack inf, I get that, but there should be at least SOME resistance from the mot inf units?
      also the early lvl mobile aa should be better than it currently is. basically the def damage against heli/reg air is 4/4, so if a lvl 1 heli gunship attacks a lvl 1 mobile aa the aa would be destroy and the gunship would have ~40% of its hp left.

      To me this doesn't sound like anti air but rather revamped inf.
      Major rework to atk/def damage values and hp buffs for early lvl heli gunships/mot inf, along with mobile aa, is needed.

      so what do yall think?
      "El experto en todos fue una vez un bêginara"

      "You didn't see me sneak under the door" :evil: :evil:

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Flat Stanley ().

    • Flat Stanley wrote:

      This is an issue that is going on for months now, ever since the season 8 update.
      Its really a big deal in the first ~5 days of game because that's when most players are still using mot. inf and basic attack helo.

      Currently heli gunship at lvl 1 deals 7 atk damage on unarmored targets with a 50% hp buffer while in air.

      Mot inf at lvl 1 has only 0.3 def on air and 0.6 def on heli.
      \Even mobile aa has to be at least lvl 4 to offer significant resistance to air/heli units, which isnt unlockable until day 11.

      Heli gunship stats against inf/armor improve significantly in first 3-4 levels, mot inf aa stats hardly improve at all until modern inf is unlocked (day 18 or later)

      lvl 1 heli gunship stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.42.15.png

      lvl 1 mot inf stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.49.53.png

      (Note hp level is constant across all terrain)

      The main concern here is that in the early game you wont have much aa defence against heli or even strikers.
      (Strikers arent worth it until lvl 4 either, only 4 atk damage to inf/armor and hardly any collateral damage

      My suggestions:

      1. nerf early lvl heli gunship stats to ~5.0 atk against inf/ ~2.0 against armor, also decrease airborne hp buff for first few levels
      2. tweak mot inf aa defence stats to atl 1.0 against reg air, 1.5 against helis. this is a little more complicated: it should be made so that if a stack of 2 mot inf is attacked by a heli gunship, when the inf units are destroyed the gunship would have about ~one third of hp left.


      Something else that wouldnt hurt would be to tweak early level mobile aa damage to target heli units, as they are more common early game.
      (but still keeping later lvl buffs on reg air units)

      While we're at it there should be a rework on striker damage to buildings in attacked province. Currently only 1 atk distributed on buildings for first lvl. It only makes sense that when a striker is attacking unit(s) in a city, the buildings in the city suffer more damage as well.
      I know strikers/heli gunships are designed for attack inf, I get that, but there should be at least SOME resistance from the mot inf units?
      also the early lvl mobile aa should be better than it currently is. basically the def damage against heli/reg air is 4/4, so if a lvl 1 heli gunship attacks a lvl 1 mobile aa the aa would be destroy and the gunship would have ~40% of its hp left.

      To me this doesn't sound like anti air but rather revamped inf.
      Major rework to atk/def damage values and hp buffs for early lvl heli gunships/mot inf, along with mobile aa, is needed.

      so what do yall think?
      1. when you say "nerf heli gunship" how do you expect this to come about? A reduction in damage/bonuses to said unit? Or to all helicopters in general? Keep in mind that there is also 'attack helicopter, designed more spacifically for armored units.
      Don't get the logic on this one.

      2. makes more sense, infantry shouldnt be just dead meat for "vulture ships" helos, strike fighters, etc
      but consider this:

      by day 6 or so most experienced players will switch from gunships to strike fighters, meaning there is no need to research later levels of gunships. I think it was intended for them to be used primarily at the lower levels, then to switch to planes once the resources allow.

      Stick it in your skillet and let it simmer.

    • Roots Naggy wrote:

      Flat Stanley wrote:

      This is an issue that is going on for months now, ever since the season 8 update.
      Its really a big deal in the first ~5 days of game because that's when most players are still using mot. inf and basic attack helo.

      Currently heli gunship at lvl 1 deals 7 atk damage on unarmored targets with a 50% hp buffer while in air.

      Mot inf at lvl 1 has only 0.3 def on air and 0.6 def on heli.
      \Even mobile aa has to be at least lvl 4 to offer significant resistance to air/heli units, which isnt unlockable until day 11.

      Heli gunship stats against inf/armor improve significantly in first 3-4 levels, mot inf aa stats hardly improve at all until modern inf is unlocked (day 18 or later)

      lvl 1 heli gunship stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.42.15.png

      lvl 1 mot inf stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.49.53.png

      (Note hp level is constant across all terrain)

      The main concern here is that in the early game you wont have much aa defence against heli or even strikers.
      (Strikers arent worth it until lvl 4 either, only 4 atk damage to inf/armor and hardly any collateral damage

      My suggestions:

      1. nerf early lvl heli gunship stats to ~5.0 atk against inf/ ~2.0 against armor, also decrease airborne hp buff for first few levels
      2. tweak mot inf aa defence stats to atl 1.0 against reg air, 1.5 against helis. this is a little more complicated: it should be made so that if a stack of 2 mot inf is attacked by a heli gunship, when the inf units are destroyed the gunship would have about ~one third of hp left.


      Something else that wouldnt hurt would be to tweak early level mobile aa damage to target heli units, as they are more common early game.
      (but still keeping later lvl buffs on reg air units)

      While we're at it there should be a rework on striker damage to buildings in attacked province. Currently only 1 atk distributed on buildings for first lvl. It only makes sense that when a striker is attacking unit(s) in a city, the buildings in the city suffer more damage as well.
      I know strikers/heli gunships are designed for attack inf, I get that, but there should be at least SOME resistance from the mot inf units?
      also the early lvl mobile aa should be better than it currently is. basically the def damage against heli/reg air is 4/4, so if a lvl 1 heli gunship attacks a lvl 1 mobile aa the aa would be destroy and the gunship would have ~40% of its hp left.

      To me this doesn't sound like anti air but rather revamped inf.
      Major rework to atk/def damage values and hp buffs for early lvl heli gunships/mot inf, along with mobile aa, is needed.

      so what do yall think?
      1. when you say "nerf heli gunship" how do you expect this to come about? A reduction in damage/bonuses to said unit? Or to all helicopters in general? Keep in mind that there is also 'attack helicopter, designed more spacifically for armored units.Don't get the logic on this one.

      2. makes more sense, infantry shouldnt be just dead meat for "vulture ships" helos, strike fighters, etc
      but consider this:

      by day 6 or so most experienced players will switch from gunships to strike fighters, meaning there is no need to research later levels of gunships. I think it was intended for them to be used primarily at the lower levels, then to switch to planes once the resources allow.

      Stick it in your skillet and let it simmer.
      i think that's a good conclusion, but still doesn't solve the problem of advanded damage for heli gunships. units with THAT kind of atk power shouldn't be able to be produced this early in the game. it takes like until day 10 for strikers to be even worth the resources to research/produce, let alone produce in mass wolf packs.

      As i said in previous post ^^ the nerf applies to atk dmg values against inf units for early lvl heli gunship. it's currently at 7.0 and I think it should be lowered to around 5.0
      that would make for more reasonable outcomes of inf/heli combat.
      "El experto en todos fue una vez un bêginara"

      "You didn't see me sneak under the door" :evil: :evil:

    • Flat Stanley wrote:

      This is an issue that is going on for months now, ever since the season 8 update.
      Its really a big deal in the first ~5 days of game because that's when most players are still using mot. inf and basic attack helo.

      Currently heli gunship at lvl 1 deals 7 atk damage on unarmored targets with a 50% hp buffer while in air.

      Mot inf at lvl 1 has only 0.3 def on air and 0.6 def on heli.
      \Even mobile aa has to be at least lvl 4 to offer significant resistance to air/heli units, which isnt unlockable until day 11.

      Heli gunship stats against inf/armor improve significantly in first 3-4 levels, mot inf aa stats hardly improve at all until modern inf is unlocked (day 18 or later)

      lvl 1 heli gunship stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.42.15.png

      lvl 1 mot inf stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.49.53.png

      (Note hp level is constant across all terrain)

      The main concern here is that in the early game you wont have much aa defence against heli or even strikers.
      (Strikers arent worth it until lvl 4 either, only 4 atk damage to inf/armor and hardly any collateral damage

      My suggestions:

      1. nerf early lvl heli gunship stats to ~5.0 atk against inf/ ~2.0 against armor, also decrease airborne hp buff for first few levels
      2. tweak mot inf aa defence stats to atl 1.0 against reg air, 1.5 against helis. this is a little more complicated: it should be made so that if a stack of 2 mot inf is attacked by a heli gunship, when the inf units are destroyed the gunship would have about ~one third of hp left.


      Something else that wouldnt hurt would be to tweak early level mobile aa damage to target heli units, as they are more common early game.
      (but still keeping later lvl buffs on reg air units)

      While we're at it there should be a rework on striker damage to buildings in attacked province. Currently only 1 atk distributed on buildings for first lvl. It only makes sense that when a striker is attacking unit(s) in a city, the buildings in the city suffer more damage as well.
      I know strikers/heli gunships are designed for attack inf, I get that, but there should be at least SOME resistance from the mot inf units?
      also the early lvl mobile aa should be better than it currently is. basically the def damage against heli/reg air is 4/4, so if a lvl 1 heli gunship attacks a lvl 1 mobile aa the aa would be destroy and the gunship would have ~40% of its hp left.

      To me this doesn't sound like anti air but rather revamped inf.
      Major rework to atk/def damage values and hp buffs for early lvl heli gunships/mot inf, along with mobile aa, is needed.

      so what do yall think?
      1960-1970 infantry would barely do any thing to a helo
      I may or may not exist

    • A_Talking_Crab wrote:

      Flat Stanley wrote:

      This is an issue that is going on for months now, ever since the season 8 update.
      Its really a big deal in the first ~5 days of game because that's when most players are still using mot. inf and basic attack helo.

      Currently heli gunship at lvl 1 deals 7 atk damage on unarmored targets with a 50% hp buffer while in air.

      Mot inf at lvl 1 has only 0.3 def on air and 0.6 def on heli.
      \Even mobile aa has to be at least lvl 4 to offer significant resistance to air/heli units, which isnt unlockable until day 11.

      Heli gunship stats against inf/armor improve significantly in first 3-4 levels, mot inf aa stats hardly improve at all until modern inf is unlocked (day 18 or later)

      lvl 1 heli gunship stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.42.15.png

      lvl 1 mot inf stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.49.53.png

      (Note hp level is constant across all terrain)

      The main concern here is that in the early game you wont have much aa defence against heli or even strikers.
      (Strikers arent worth it until lvl 4 either, only 4 atk damage to inf/armor and hardly any collateral damage

      My suggestions:

      1. nerf early lvl heli gunship stats to ~5.0 atk against inf/ ~2.0 against armor, also decrease airborne hp buff for first few levels
      2. tweak mot inf aa defence stats to atl 1.0 against reg air, 1.5 against helis. this is a little more complicated: it should be made so that if a stack of 2 mot inf is attacked by a heli gunship, when the inf units are destroyed the gunship would have about ~one third of hp left.


      Something else that wouldnt hurt would be to tweak early level mobile aa damage to target heli units, as they are more common early game.
      (but still keeping later lvl buffs on reg air units)

      While we're at it there should be a rework on striker damage to buildings in attacked province. Currently only 1 atk distributed on buildings for first lvl. It only makes sense that when a striker is attacking unit(s) in a city, the buildings in the city suffer more damage as well.
      I know strikers/heli gunships are designed for attack inf, I get that, but there should be at least SOME resistance from the mot inf units?
      also the early lvl mobile aa should be better than it currently is. basically the def damage against heli/reg air is 4/4, so if a lvl 1 heli gunship attacks a lvl 1 mobile aa the aa would be destroy and the gunship would have ~40% of its hp left.

      To me this doesn't sound like anti air but rather revamped inf.
      Major rework to atk/def damage values and hp buffs for early lvl heli gunships/mot inf, along with mobile aa, is needed.

      so what do yall think?
      1960-1970 infantry would barely do any thing to a helo
      but this is MODERN game, not from 50 years ago
      "El experto en todos fue una vez un bêginara"

      "You didn't see me sneak under the door" :evil: :evil:

    • >ever since the season 8 update
      >talks about helis
      s8 didnt change anything about helis or sf; it only introduced the EAA (which is gonna nerfed anyway)

      If you want effective early anti-air then build air superiority fighters; they are available from day 1, fast to research and fast to mobilize
      on top of that they also scale pretty well into the lategame

      Heli Gunships are meant to counter soft units (aka infantry) so giving them higher dmg against Helis seems like a bad idea; if you dont build the counters to a unit then dont expect to do a good job at killing it

      Verdict: Skill Issue
      I am The Baseline for opinions

    • Flat Stanley wrote:

      A_Talking_Crab wrote:

      Flat Stanley wrote:

      This is an issue that is going on for months now, ever since the season 8 update.
      Its really a big deal in the first ~5 days of game because that's when most players are still using mot. inf and basic attack helo.

      Currently heli gunship at lvl 1 deals 7 atk damage on unarmored targets with a 50% hp buffer while in air.

      Mot inf at lvl 1 has only 0.3 def on air and 0.6 def on heli.
      \Even mobile aa has to be at least lvl 4 to offer significant resistance to air/heli units, which isnt unlockable until day 11.

      Heli gunship stats against inf/armor improve significantly in first 3-4 levels, mot inf aa stats hardly improve at all until modern inf is unlocked (day 18 or later)

      lvl 1 heli gunship stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.42.15.png

      lvl 1 mot inf stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.49.53.png

      (Note hp level is constant across all terrain)

      The main concern here is that in the early game you wont have much aa defence against heli or even strikers.
      (Strikers arent worth it until lvl 4 either, only 4 atk damage to inf/armor and hardly any collateral damage

      My suggestions:

      1. nerf early lvl heli gunship stats to ~5.0 atk against inf/ ~2.0 against armor, also decrease airborne hp buff for first few levels
      2. tweak mot inf aa defence stats to atl 1.0 against reg air, 1.5 against helis. this is a little more complicated: it should be made so that if a stack of 2 mot inf is attacked by a heli gunship, when the inf units are destroyed the gunship would have about ~one third of hp left.


      Something else that wouldnt hurt would be to tweak early level mobile aa damage to target heli units, as they are more common early game.
      (but still keeping later lvl buffs on reg air units)

      While we're at it there should be a rework on striker damage to buildings in attacked province. Currently only 1 atk distributed on buildings for first lvl. It only makes sense that when a striker is attacking unit(s) in a city, the buildings in the city suffer more damage as well.
      I know strikers/heli gunships are designed for attack inf, I get that, but there should be at least SOME resistance from the mot inf units?
      also the early lvl mobile aa should be better than it currently is. basically the def damage against heli/reg air is 4/4, so if a lvl 1 heli gunship attacks a lvl 1 mobile aa the aa would be destroy and the gunship would have ~40% of its hp left.

      To me this doesn't sound like anti air but rather revamped inf.
      Major rework to atk/def damage values and hp buffs for early lvl heli gunships/mot inf, along with mobile aa, is needed.

      so what do yall think?
      1960-1970 infantry would barely do any thing to a helo
      but this is MODERN game, not from 50 years ago
      The first stage of infantry shows 1960/1970 infantry, along with all the other equipment
      I may or may not exist

    • A_Talking_Crab wrote:

      Flat Stanley wrote:

      A_Talking_Crab wrote:

      Flat Stanley wrote:

      This is an issue that is going on for months now, ever since the season 8 update.
      Its really a big deal in the first ~5 days of game because that's when most players are still using mot. inf and basic attack helo.

      Currently heli gunship at lvl 1 deals 7 atk damage on unarmored targets with a 50% hp buffer while in air.

      Mot inf at lvl 1 has only 0.3 def on air and 0.6 def on heli.
      \Even mobile aa has to be at least lvl 4 to offer significant resistance to air/heli units, which isnt unlockable until day 11.

      Heli gunship stats against inf/armor improve significantly in first 3-4 levels, mot inf aa stats hardly improve at all until modern inf is unlocked (day 18 or later)

      lvl 1 heli gunship stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.42.15.png

      lvl 1 mot inf stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.49.53.png

      (Note hp level is constant across all terrain)

      The main concern here is that in the early game you wont have much aa defence against heli or even strikers.
      (Strikers arent worth it until lvl 4 either, only 4 atk damage to inf/armor and hardly any collateral damage

      My suggestions:

      1. nerf early lvl heli gunship stats to ~5.0 atk against inf/ ~2.0 against armor, also decrease airborne hp buff for first few levels
      2. tweak mot inf aa defence stats to atl 1.0 against reg air, 1.5 against helis. this is a little more complicated: it should be made so that if a stack of 2 mot inf is attacked by a heli gunship, when the inf units are destroyed the gunship would have about ~one third of hp left.


      Something else that wouldnt hurt would be to tweak early level mobile aa damage to target heli units, as they are more common early game.
      (but still keeping later lvl buffs on reg air units)

      While we're at it there should be a rework on striker damage to buildings in attacked province. Currently only 1 atk distributed on buildings for first lvl. It only makes sense that when a striker is attacking unit(s) in a city, the buildings in the city suffer more damage as well.
      I know strikers/heli gunships are designed for attack inf, I get that, but there should be at least SOME resistance from the mot inf units?
      also the early lvl mobile aa should be better than it currently is. basically the def damage against heli/reg air is 4/4, so if a lvl 1 heli gunship attacks a lvl 1 mobile aa the aa would be destroy and the gunship would have ~40% of its hp left.

      To me this doesn't sound like anti air but rather revamped inf.
      Major rework to atk/def damage values and hp buffs for early lvl heli gunships/mot inf, along with mobile aa, is needed.

      so what do yall think?
      1960-1970 infantry would barely do any thing to a helo
      but this is MODERN game, not from 50 years ago
      The first stage of infantry shows 1960/1970 infantry, along with all the other equipment
      hmm... does it specify that ingame? not sure if the devs intended that, but good observation
      "El experto en todos fue una vez un bêginara"

      "You didn't see me sneak under the door" :evil: :evil:

    • Flat Stanley wrote:

      A_Talking_Crab wrote:

      Flat Stanley wrote:

      A_Talking_Crab wrote:

      Flat Stanley wrote:

      This is an issue that is going on for months now, ever since the season 8 update.
      Its really a big deal in the first ~5 days of game because that's when most players are still using mot. inf and basic attack helo.

      Currently heli gunship at lvl 1 deals 7 atk damage on unarmored targets with a 50% hp buffer while in air.

      Mot inf at lvl 1 has only 0.3 def on air and 0.6 def on heli.
      \Even mobile aa has to be at least lvl 4 to offer significant resistance to air/heli units, which isnt unlockable until day 11.

      Heli gunship stats against inf/armor improve significantly in first 3-4 levels, mot inf aa stats hardly improve at all until modern inf is unlocked (day 18 or later)

      lvl 1 heli gunship stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.42.15.png

      lvl 1 mot inf stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.49.53.png

      (Note hp level is constant across all terrain)

      The main concern here is that in the early game you wont have much aa defence against heli or even strikers.
      (Strikers arent worth it until lvl 4 either, only 4 atk damage to inf/armor and hardly any collateral damage

      My suggestions:

      1. nerf early lvl heli gunship stats to ~5.0 atk against inf/ ~2.0 against armor, also decrease airborne hp buff for first few levels
      2. tweak mot inf aa defence stats to atl 1.0 against reg air, 1.5 against helis. this is a little more complicated: it should be made so that if a stack of 2 mot inf is attacked by a heli gunship, when the inf units are destroyed the gunship would have about ~one third of hp left.


      Something else that wouldnt hurt would be to tweak early level mobile aa damage to target heli units, as they are more common early game.
      (but still keeping later lvl buffs on reg air units)

      While we're at it there should be a rework on striker damage to buildings in attacked province. Currently only 1 atk distributed on buildings for first lvl. It only makes sense that when a striker is attacking unit(s) in a city, the buildings in the city suffer more damage as well.
      I know strikers/heli gunships are designed for attack inf, I get that, but there should be at least SOME resistance from the mot inf units?
      also the early lvl mobile aa should be better than it currently is. basically the def damage against heli/reg air is 4/4, so if a lvl 1 heli gunship attacks a lvl 1 mobile aa the aa would be destroy and the gunship would have ~40% of its hp left.

      To me this doesn't sound like anti air but rather revamped inf.
      Major rework to atk/def damage values and hp buffs for early lvl heli gunships/mot, ( inf, along with mobile aa, is needed.

      so what do yall think?
      1960-1970 infantry would barely do any thing to a helo
      but this is MODERN game, not from 50 years ago
      The first stage of infantry shows 1960/1970 infantry, along with all the other equipment
      hmm... does it specify that ingame? not sure if the devs intended that, but good observation
      the us image is from the 1960s, the soviets image is from the 1960s, all the units in the first tier (with some outliers) are form 1960/1970s, its interesting to look at the items
      I may or may not exist

    • Teburu wrote:

      >ever since the season 8 update
      >talks about helis
      s8 didnt change anything about helis or sf; it only introduced the EAA (which is gonna nerfed anyway)

      If you want effective early anti-air then build air superiority fighters; they are available from day 1, fast to research and fast to mobilize
      on top of that they also scale pretty well into the lategame

      Heli Gunships are meant to counter soft units (aka infantry) so giving them higher dmg against Helis seems like a bad idea; if you dont build the counters to a unit then dont expect to do a good job at killing it

      Verdict: Skill Issue
      that's all well and good, but what i want is effetive LAND anti air in the early game.

      because i just simply won't be able to produce enough ASFs to patrol each of my stacks, at least not in the first week or so.
      "El experto en todos fue una vez un bêginara"

      "You didn't see me sneak under the door" :evil: :evil:

    • A_Talking_Crab wrote:

      Flat Stanley wrote:

      A_Talking_Crab wrote:

      Flat Stanley wrote:

      A_Talking_Crab wrote:

      Flat Stanley wrote:

      This is an issue that is going on for months now, ever since the season 8 update.
      Its really a big deal in the first ~5 days of game because that's when most players are still using mot. inf and basic attack helo.

      Currently heli gunship at lvl 1 deals 7 atk damage on unarmored targets with a 50% hp buffer while in air.

      Mot inf at lvl 1 has only 0.3 def on air and 0.6 def on heli.
      \Even mobile aa has to be at least lvl 4 to offer significant resistance to air/heli units, which isnt unlockable until day 11.

      Heli gunship stats against inf/armor improve significantly in first 3-4 levels, mot inf aa stats hardly improve at all until modern inf is unlocked (day 18 or later)

      lvl 1 heli gunship stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.42.15.png

      lvl 1 mot inf stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.49.53.png

      (Note hp level is constant across all terrain)

      The main concern here is that in the early game you wont have much aa defence against heli or even strikers.
      (Strikers arent worth it until lvl 4 either, only 4 atk damage to inf/armor and hardly any collateral damage

      My suggestions:

      1. nerf early lvl heli gunship stats to ~5.0 atk against inf/ ~2.0 against armor, also decrease airborne hp buff for first few levels
      2. tweak mot inf aa defence stats to atl 1.0 against reg air, 1.5 against helis. this is a little more complicated: it should be made so that if a stack of 2 mot inf is attacked by a heli gunship, when the inf units are destroyed the gunship would have about ~one third of hp left.


      Something else that wouldnt hurt would be to tweak early level mobile aa damage to target heli units, as they are more common early game.
      (but still keeping later lvl buffs on reg air units)

      While we're at it there should be a rework on striker damage to buildings in attacked province. Currently only 1 atk distributed on buildings for first lvl. It only makes sense that when a striker is attacking unit(s) in a city, the buildings in the city suffer more damage as well.
      I know strikers/heli gunships are designed for attack inf, I get that, but there should be at least SOME resistance from the mot inf units?
      also the early lvl mobile aa should be better than it currently is. basically the def damage against heli/reg air is 4/4, so if a lvl 1 heli gunship attacks a lvl 1 mobile aa the aa would be destroy and the gunship would have ~40% of its hp left.

      To me this doesn't sound like anti air but rather revamped inf.
      Major rework to atk/def damage values and hp buffs for early lvl heli gunships/mot, ( inf, along with mobile aa, is needed.

      so what do yall think?
      1960-1970 infantry would barely do any thing to a helo
      but this is MODERN game, not from 50 years ago
      The first stage of infantry shows 1960/1970 infantry, along with all the other equipment
      hmm... does it specify that ingame? not sure if the devs intended that, but good observation
      the us image is from the 1960s, the soviets image is from the 1960s, all the units in the first tier (with some outliers) are form 1960/1970s, its interesting to look at the items
      Nice observation. I never really took the time to notice that before, but I guess its possibile that the devs had some intent on doing that. Maybe i will ask them.
      "El experto en todos fue una vez un bêginara"

      "You didn't see me sneak under the door" :evil: :evil:

    • Flat Stanley wrote:

      This is an issue that is going on for months now, ever since the season 8 update.
      Its really a big deal in the first ~5 days of game because that's when most players are still using mot. inf and basic attack helo.

      Currently heli gunship at lvl 1 deals 7 atk damage on unarmored targets with a 50% hp buffer while in air.

      Mot inf at lvl 1 has only 0.3 def on air and 0.6 def on heli.
      \Even mobile aa has to be at least lvl 4 to offer significant resistance to air/heli units, which isnt unlockable until day 11.

      Heli gunship stats against inf/armor improve significantly in first 3-4 levels, mot inf aa stats hardly improve at all until modern inf is unlocked (day 18 or later)

      lvl 1 heli gunship stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.42.15.png

      lvl 1 mot inf stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.49.53.png

      (Note hp level is constant across all terrain)

      The main concern here is that in the early game you wont have much aa defence against heli or even strikers.
      (Strikers arent worth it until lvl 4 either, only 4 atk damage to inf/armor and hardly any collateral damage

      My suggestions:

      1. nerf early lvl heli gunship stats to ~5.0 atk against inf/ ~2.0 against armor, also decrease airborne hp buff for first few levels
      2. tweak mot inf aa defence stats to atl 1.0 against reg air, 1.5 against helis. this is a little more complicated: it should be made so that if a stack of 2 mot inf is attacked by a heli gunship, when the inf units are destroyed the gunship would have about ~one third of hp left.


      Something else that wouldnt hurt would be to tweak early level mobile aa damage to target heli units, as they are more common early game.
      (but still keeping later lvl buffs on reg air units)

      While we're at it there should be a rework on striker damage to buildings in attacked province. Currently only 1 atk distributed on buildings for first lvl. It only makes sense that when a striker is attacking unit(s) in a city, the buildings in the city suffer more damage as well.
      I know strikers/heli gunships are designed for attack inf, I get that, but there should be at least SOME resistance from the mot inf units?
      also the early lvl mobile aa should be better than it currently is. basically the def damage against heli/reg air is 4/4, so if a lvl 1 heli gunship attacks a lvl 1 mobile aa the aa would be destroy and the gunship would have ~40% of its hp left.

      To me this doesn't sound like anti air but rather revamped inf.
      Major rework to atk/def damage values and hp buffs for early lvl heli gunships/mot inf, along with mobile aa, is needed.

      so what do yall think?

      Roots Naggy wrote:

      Flat Stanley wrote:

      This is an issue that is going on for months now, ever since the season 8 update.
      Its really a big deal in the first ~5 days of game because that's when most players are still using mot. inf and basic attack helo.

      Currently heli gunship at lvl 1 deals 7 atk damage on unarmored targets with a 50% hp buffer while in air.

      Mot inf at lvl 1 has only 0.3 def on air and 0.6 def on heli.
      \Even mobile aa has to be at least lvl 4 to offer significant resistance to air/heli units, which isnt unlockable until day 11.

      Heli gunship stats against inf/armor improve significantly in first 3-4 levels, mot inf aa stats hardly improve at all until modern inf is unlocked (day 18 or later)

      lvl 1 heli gunship stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.42.15.png

      lvl 1 mot inf stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.49.53.png

      (Note hp level is constant across all terrain)

      The main concern here is that in the early game you wont have much aa defence against heli or even strikers.
      (Strikers arent worth it until lvl 4 either, only 4 atk damage to inf/armor and hardly any collateral damage

      My suggestions:

      1. nerf early lvl heli gunship stats to ~5.0 atk against inf/ ~2.0 against armor, also decrease airborne hp buff for first few levels
      2. tweak mot inf aa defence stats to atl 1.0 against reg air, 1.5 against helis. this is a little more complicated: it should be made so that if a stack of 2 mot inf is attacked by a heli gunship, when the inf units are destroyed the gunship would have about ~one third of hp left.


      Something else that wouldnt hurt would be to tweak early level mobile aa damage to target heli units, as they are more common early game.
      (but still keeping later lvl buffs on reg air units)

      While we're at it there should be a rework on striker damage to buildings in attacked province. Currently only 1 atk distributed on buildings for first lvl. It only makes sense that when a striker is attacking unit(s) in a city, the buildings in the city suffer more damage as well.
      I know strikers/heli gunships are designed for attack inf, I get that, but there should be at least SOME resistance from the mot inf units?
      also the early lvl mobile aa should be better than it currently is. basically the def damage against heli/reg air is 4/4, so if a lvl 1 heli gunship attacks a lvl 1 mobile aa the aa would be destroy and the gunship would have ~40% of its hp left.

      To me this doesn't sound like anti air but rather revamped inf.
      Major rework to atk/def damage values and hp buffs for early lvl heli gunships/mot inf, along with mobile aa, is needed.

      so what do yall think?
      1. when you say "nerf heli gunship" how do you expect this to come about? A reduction in damage/bonuses to said unit? Or to all helicopters in general? Keep in mind that there is also 'attack helicopter, designed more spacifically for armored units.Don't get the logic on this one.

      2. makes more sense, infantry shouldnt be just dead meat for "vulture ships" helos, strike fighters, etc
      but consider this:

      by day 6 or so most experienced players will switch from gunships to strike fighters, meaning there is no need to research later levels of gunships. I think it was intended for them to be used primarily at the lower levels, then to switch to planes once the resources allow.

      Stick it in your skillet and let it simmer.
      Why would only regular inf benefit from this?
      I would give the same buffs for all kinds of infs (mech, mobile, air borne, naval, etc)

      And of course terrain bonuses to defending infantry units being bombarded by air units.

    • This is an issue that is going on for months now, ever since the season 8 update.

      Teutonian wrote:

      Flat Stanley wrote:

      Its really a big deal in the first ~5 days of game because that's when most players are still using mot. inf and basic attack helo.

      Currently heli gunship at lvl 1 deals 7 atk damage on unarmored targets with a 50% hp buffer while in air.

      Mot inf at lvl 1 has only 0.3 def on air and 0.6 def on heli.
      \Even mobile aa has to be at least lvl 4 to offer significant resistance to air/heli units, which isnt unlockable until day 11.

      Heli gunship stats against inf/armor improve significantly in first 3-4 levels, mot inf aa stats hardly improve at all until modern inf is unlocked (day 18 or later)

      lvl 1 heli gunship stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.42.15.png

      lvl 1 mot inf stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.49.53.png

      (Note hp level is constant across all terrain)

      The main concern here is that in the early game you wont have much aa defence against heli or even strikers.
      (Strikers arent worth it until lvl 4 either, only 4 atk damage to inf/armor and hardly any collateral damage

      My suggestions:

      1. nerf early lvl heli gunship stats to ~5.0 atk against inf/ ~2.0 against armor, also decrease airborne hp buff for first few levels
      2. tweak mot inf aa defence stats to atl 1.0 against reg air, 1.5 against helis. this is a little more complicated: it should be made so that if a stack of 2 mot inf is attacked by a heli gunship, when the inf units are destroyed the gunship would have about ~one third of hp left.


      Something else that wouldnt hurt would be to tweak early level mobile aa damage to target heli units, as they are more common early game.
      (but still keeping later lvl buffs on reg air units)

      While we're at it there should be a rework on striker damage to buildings in attacked province. Currently only 1 atk distributed on buildings for first lvl. It only makes sense that when a striker is attacking unit(s) in a city, the buildings in the city suffer more damage as well.
      I know strikers/heli gunships are designed for attack inf, I get that, but there should be at least SOME resistance from the mot inf units?
      also the early lvl mobile aa should be better than it currently is. basically the def damage against heli/reg air is 4/4, so if a lvl 1 heli gunship attacks a lvl 1 mobile aa the aa would be destroy and the gunship would have ~40% of its hp left.

      To me this doesn't sound like anti air but rather revamped inf.
      Major rework to atk/def damage values and hp buffs for early lvl heli gunships/mot inf, along with mobile aa, is needed.

      so what do yall think?

      Roots Naggy wrote:

      Flat Stanley wrote:

      This is an issue that is going on for months now, ever since the season 8 update.
      Its really a big deal in the first ~5 days of game because that's when most players are still using mot. inf and basic attack helo.

      Currently heli gunship at lvl 1 deals 7 atk damage on unarmored targets with a 50% hp buffer while in air.

      Mot inf at lvl 1 has only 0.3 def on air and 0.6 def on heli.
      \Even mobile aa has to be at least lvl 4 to offer significant resistance to air/heli units, which isnt unlockable until day 11.

      Heli gunship stats against inf/armor improve significantly in first 3-4 levels, mot inf aa stats hardly improve at all until modern inf is unlocked (day 18 or later)

      lvl 1 heli gunship stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.42.15.png

      lvl 1 mot inf stats:

      Screenshot 2022-09-13 09.49.53.png

      (Note hp level is constant across all terrain)

      The main concern here is that in the early game you wont have much aa defence against heli or even strikers.
      (Strikers arent worth it until lvl 4 either, only 4 atk damage to inf/armor and hardly any collateral damage

      My suggestions:

      1. nerf early lvl heli gunship stats to ~5.0 atk against inf/ ~2.0 against armor, also decrease airborne hp buff for first few levels
      2. tweak mot inf aa defence stats to atl 1.0 against reg air, 1.5 against helis. this is a little more complicated: it should be made so that if a stack of 2 mot inf is attacked by a heli gunship, when the inf units are destroyed the gunship would have about ~one third of hp left.


      Something else that wouldnt hurt would be to tweak early level mobile aa damage to target heli units, as they are more common early game.
      (but still keeping later lvl buffs on reg air units)

      While we're at it there should be a rework on striker damage to buildings in attacked province. Currently only 1 atk distributed on buildings for first lvl. It only makes sense that when a striker is attacking unit(s) in a city, the buildings in the city suffer more damage as well.
      I know strikers/heli gunships are designed for attack inf, I get that, but there should be at least SOME resistance from the mot inf units?
      also the early lvl mobile aa should be better than it currently is. basically the def damage against heli/reg air is 4/4, so if a lvl 1 heli gunship attacks a lvl 1 mobile aa the aa would be destroy and the gunship would have ~40% of its hp left.

      To me this doesn't sound like anti air but rather revamped inf.
      Major rework to atk/def damage values and hp buffs for early lvl heli gunships/mot inf, along with mobile aa, is needed.

      so what do yall think?
      1. when you say "nerf heli gunship" how do you expect this to come about? A reduction in damage/bonuses to said unit? Or to all helicopters in general? Keep in mind that there is also 'attack helicopter, designed more spacifically for armored units.Don't get the logic on this one.
      2. makes more sense, infantry shouldnt be just dead meat for "vulture ships" helos, strike fighters, etc
      but consider this:

      by day 6 or so most experienced players will switch from gunships to strike fighters, meaning there is no need to research later levels of gunships. I think it was intended for them to be used primarily at the lower levels, then to switch to planes once the resources allow.

      Stick it in your skillet and let it simmer.
      Why would only regular inf benefit from this?I would give the same buffs for all kinds of infs (mech, mobile, air borne, naval, etc)

      And of course terrain bonuses to defending infantry units being bombarded by air units.
      Because mot inf is usually what air/naval based players like me can be able to afford in the early game (first week or so)

      Infantry already has terrain bonuses as noted in pics above:
      -25% atk dmg value in mountain, jungle, tundra
      +25% def dmg value in forest, urban, suburban
      -25% def dmg value in tundra

      Dont see what needs to be modified here.

    • I would give this suggestion an 'E' for Effort, but also because it is only slightly better than an F (fail)

      First of all, nobody is f**king compaining about "the gunships are too powerful" So there's no reason to fix what isn't broken.
      Also in real life most country's regular infantry has next to no anti air defense whatsoever. They want to make this game realistic but keep suggesting s**t like this.

      There is one good thing though. I will say that the units that are SPECIALIZED to be anti air suck at it (ie mobile aa) and their stats need to be improved (maybe to like 6/6 attack/defense like you suggested),

      So I won't get too mad to see this implemented. Fair enough.

    • Teutonian wrote:

      I would give this suggestion an 'E' for Effort, but also because it is only slightly better than an F (fail)

      First of all, nobody is f**king compaining about "the gunships are too powerful" So there's no reason to fix what isn't broken.
      Also in real life most country's regular infantry has next to no anti air defense whatsoever. They want to make this game realistic but keep suggesting s**t like this.

      There is one good thing though. I will say that the units that are SPECIALIZED to be anti air suck at it (ie mobile aa) and their stats need to be improved (maybe to like 6/6 attack/defense like you suggested),

      So I won't get too mad to see this implemented. Fair enough.
      If you had read my entire post you would have known that the main topic of focus was nerfing early lvl heli gunship atk stats against infantry, not upgrading inf aa resistance. The "tweak mot inf def dmg" was for lvl 1 mot inf only; the higher levels game thwart an air attack if in a stack (and by that time most players are using stacks of assorted units (including aa) and might even have air protection, via UAFs or otherwise.

      As for mobile aa, an almost worthless until at least lvl 3, probably lvl 4. Before then you would need like 2-3 per stack to defend against air attacks, that's why I usually use UAFs for that purpose in the early game anyway.
      "El experto en todos fue una vez un bêginara"

      "You didn't see me sneak under the door" :evil: :evil:

    • Stop playing favourites with you’re toys Flat stanley.
      MaA is there to counter SF users early game, since they trade damage pretty much do and have more HP and damage distribution thanks to other units in the stack,
      So heli should not be nerfed, but should probably be buffed since EAA was so powerful. The EAA is the mix of SF and Helis. Wonder where they got their damage from…..

    • Zozo001 wrote:

      Flat Stanley wrote:

      The main concern here is that in the early game you wont have much aa defence against heli or even strikers.
      Ever heard of ASF perchance?
      Like i mentioned in above post ^^ people simply wont have the resources in early game to have an asf patrol each of their stacks
      "El experto en todos fue una vez un bêginara"

      "You didn't see me sneak under the door" :evil: :evil: