Announcement PATCH NOTES - 2210.05

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    • Yeah...

      Before EAA, I considered helicopters a strong opening because their damage was much better than strikers (as long as you weren't always fighting mixed armies - hard and soft at the same time).

      The thing with EAA is:
      - it's super tanky
      - AND has better range than helos
      - AND has good damage vs. BOTH soft and hard targets (isn't specialized)
      - AND it's land based-hard counter (SAMs) requires level 3 army base and isn't even available as early

      ASFs are the only counter to EAA at the beginning and are the natural way to unlock the research anyway...

      Most of the time I don't have competitive enough neighbors for it to matter, but in a strictly competitive situation, ASF then EAA is the obvious choice. It is annoying that there's no competitive alternatives.

      PS: As someone who likes playing island nations, Frigates can be brought online about as fast as EAA but that's an option for a very limited number of nations...
    • Rainmaker2112 wrote:

      Frigates can be brought online about as fast as EAA
      I did not study this question in detail, but in my limited experience an EAA focused strat (involving mixed stacks with ASF early on, then adding NASF as soon as possible) beats frigates rather handily. By the time some serious naval stacks appear, I usually have a bunch of NPA, too.
      Commander Zozo001 :thumbsup:
      humble player

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Zozo001 ().

    • Zozo001 wrote:

      Rainmaker2112 wrote:

      Frigates can be brought online about as fast as EAA
      I did not study this question in detail, but in my limited experience an EAA focused strat (involving mixed stacks with ASF early on, then adding NASF as soon as possible) beats frigates rather handily. By the time some serious naval stacks appear, I usually have a bunch of NPA, too.
      If I start as Philippines, for example, I will rush corvettes, make 2, then rush Frigates since they solve 2 problems - they block landing parties and they provide air defense.

      The only way I can imagine EAA winning is if they outnumber frigates like 4 to 1 or more or are level 3 against level 1 frigates.

      To put some numbers behind it... frigates do 3x the damage, have a tad more HP, and have active AA so they can hit the planes incoming and like 2 times per attack from the planes (once active AA and once on the attack interaction) - it depends on patrol circle and such, but even without any active AA it's still a hard counter...

      Like I said, most nations can't block up their borders just with navy but for nations who can, serious navy stacks are an option as an opening strategy. Besides blockades and AA, frigates are useful on offense too... Navy is very difficult to counter early game as well... if you don't already have navy, you're not really going to recover port cities that are getting sieged by frigates until you get a lot of strikers or NPA...

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Rainmaker2112 ().

    • Zozo001 wrote:

      Which is what you should've done before the EAA era, too, if counting on any decent opponent
      Fire with Fire is always the minor choice. there are better ways to kill airplanes.

      Itry to get 3 aaguns at the beginning. its not the best aur defense on the world but it stops nasty fighters. add some recons and MG and you got a early doom stack.
      Alle sagten: Das geht nicht. Dann kam einer, der wusste das nicht und hat es einfach gemacht.
    • kurtvonstein wrote:

      Zozo001 wrote:

      Which is what you should've done before the EAA era, too, if counting on any decent opponent
      Fire with Fire is always the minor choice. there are better ways to kill airplanes.
      Well, yes and no. It is better to kill them with AA, if possible. But even better is to have additional A2A capability to hunt them down when they are outside AA range!
      Commander Zozo001 :thumbsup:
      humble player
    • kurtvonstein wrote:

      Airfight is Melee…I avoid Melee just as the Devil avoids sacred water.
      Yeah I see what you mean. Still, in many situations it is better to kill EAAs (or SFs, for that matter) with A2A when spotted, rather than leaving them roam until they happen to fly into AA coverage. Your ASFs would only lose much HP if the enemy has its own ASF - in which case their resources would be stretched for making multiple types of aircraft.
      Commander Zozo001 :thumbsup:
      humble player
    • Zozo001 wrote:

      kurtvonstein wrote:

      Airfight is Melee…I avoid Melee just as the Devil avoids sacred water.
      Yeah I see what you mean. Still, in many situations it is better to kill EAAs (or SFs, for that matter) with A2A when spotted, rather than leaving them roam until they happen to fly into AA coverage. Your ASFs would only lose much HP if the enemy has its own ASF - in which case their resources would be stretched for making multiple types of aircraft.
      its not like they want to fly into my AA coverage out of pure boredom. I make them do it. Like a spider weaving its web…
      Alle sagten: Das geht nicht. Dann kam einer, der wusste das nicht und hat es einfach gemacht.
    • kurtvonstein wrote:

      yeah bombers against a player with strong airforce. thats a no brainer.

      Your bombers are lucky to reach the bombing zone…this is a one way ticket.
      Oh, don't laugh. I've killed 3 times as many fighters with bombers as bombers I've lost to fighters. Probably more.

      See the thing is, a full stack of bombers can kill multiple stacks of fighters when landed (and destroy their runway so they are sitting ducks and can't chase the bombers). I've done this quite a few times. Contrast that to the fact that a full stack of ASF CANNOT kill a full stack of bombers in the air.

      Ironically, a full stack of ASFs cannot even protect their own runway. If bombers are headed to their runway (assuming the bombers arn't spotted a long way out) the ASF can't attack. If they do, they'll kill 2 maybe 3 bombers (bombers have a fair bit of HP) then promptly fly back to their runway, get bombed, take casualties, and become stranded with no runway to leave (2 bombers are plenty to kill a provincial runway). Win for the fighters? Nah.

      Obviously, fighting with bombers takes finesse and tricks and there's lots of situations it's not a feasible strategy. However, there's a lot of opportunities to make use of their building destroying utilities especially when you're fighting on the outskirts of areas players have a strong hold on.

      There's more I could say - more tricks to help setup situations where you don't take losses, but I might keep those to myself.

      I will point out that not all players prioritize ASF research and it's definitely possible to setup bombers and start wrecking homeland infrastructure so your opponent can't make counter units at all before SAMs are even a thought for most players.

      I believe I've lost about 40 heavies while killing 275 units with them (plus tons of buildings) and I trade more aggressively with NPAs so that loss number is probably inflated.
    • you are right it you di a one on one comparisson. but i would asume a active player send more then 1 fjll stack if asf to get your bombers . and has more then 1 aurfield aa backup landing zone.

      i am not a fan of sending troops into unknown enemy territory on a suicide mission but if it works for you then that’s OK
      Alle sagten: Das geht nicht. Dann kam einer, der wusste das nicht und hat es einfach gemacht.