Dev Log #23

    This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

    • KFGauss wrote:

      This thread's title and OP tell me that it's a conversation about Elite Frigates being the next Season's unit.
      what donyou expect? Big astonishment? The Elite Ship is solid development work. No Fancy piece of art such as the lances or ugv.
      I think we all agree that it will add to the toolset an other way of protecting your fleet against aur raids. I wonder about the real stats as to the superpower and the superweakness of the unit.
      But having said this the message for me is the same as telling you chrismas is coming in 4 weeks. Its exciting but far from mind blowing and super bazlement.
      And I guess no one will object this units and call it useless…unless they give it a aa range from 25 such as the normal carrier.
      @Dorado If you Close the Forum and move everything to Discord you will lose my Feedback for sure.
    • Opulon wrote:

      Trying to establish an equivalent between a suggested "elder conservatism" vs a suggested "youngling progressism" won't work. Let's assume it's about politics : Elders have a very high interest to see the game evolve positively since they are hyper integrated to the community.

      Let's review it through data perspective, from most recent to older, and only picking topics from people that are not elders.

      - 10X winter vacation : a new member expressed against the idea, a elder said the reasoning expressed against wasn't valid.
      - New rules for AI : new members expressed for and against the idea, a elder gave insight about why the AI behaved like it did. It then devolve into a meme-thread.
      - Resource Market : a new member expresses for the idea, a elder explains that sadly, this has been proposed bazillions of times, is against Dorado business, and won't be done. (which is entirely true. I lobby since 2017 for the return of direct resource exhange, you know.)
      - Production/Queue slotting : new member and elder express for the idea, but a elder reminds that this has been proposed bazillions of times, with dorado answering many times that it was a big "no". Then discussion devolves in a exhange where young players forget that Dorado is a business, belonging to a market-shared group, not a Republic. You can vote as much as you want for the dead to be reanimated, it's just not happening.
      - Research Osmosis : one elder expresses disagreement, 3 others express agreement, but suggest to refine the idea. I give an insight, stating that i have already proposed in the past something similar, which was shot down because opposed to Dorado income.
      - A 10 should not be a special unit : one elder expresses agreement, one elder and three young disagree.
      - Radar contact notifications : several young and elder express agreement, several young and elder express disagreement.
      - Daily Gold Usage limit : An elder suggests the most dumb thing i ever saw, another reminds that while everyone would love that, it's so antithetic to dorado's business it's bound to absolutely never happen.
      - Lancet Usuality : Interestingly, this one, everyone is in agreement so much that it ends in a meme thread. Elite drone swarm sucks.
      - Wild Weasel : As usual, someone likes to propose a aircraft that counters anti-aircraft, or an infantry that counters anti-infantry. Except the guy that plays CoN Because he doesn't has the money to purchase Command or the last Harpoon, everybody is against it. It devolves into a sub debate about the addition of a tanker (which would be an interesting idea, in fact)
      - New content, quantity instead of quality : Someone gives an opinion about the state of the game. Only after does it become a sub debate about resupply
      - Queuing on mobile : People agree, Dealer rants. People agree.
      - Adding a tanker : People agree, then it devolves into a meme thread.
      - Double the numbers of infantry : Shot down by 2 elders.
      - Game times favors specific time zones : everyone agrees.
      - Make aircrafts able to fly over the north pole : immediatly devolves into a meme-thread
      - Jeju Island : Strange claim of someone speaking on behalf of the community. Don't understand if there is agreement or disagreement.
      - Buff Towed artillery : elders arguing.
      - Transport ships should be an unlockable unit : coming probably from a Cow Players. Dorado has actually seen that because the discussion carried outside the forum and is working on its own model. Sadly, after a time, it devolves into meme thread.


      I didn't include topics made by elders, because if we are talking about them, i think that in the recent monthes, no debate was as deep, or a proposal as game-changing and interesting, as Playbabe proposal about new melee combat.


      But with that in mind, out of a very limited data set of approximately 20 topics :

      Being an elder or a young doesn't give any weighted indication of "if they will agree or disagree" on general topics
      Being an elder multiplies significantely the odds an insight or a historical reference will be given ("Already proposed" - style of answer)
      Being a young player multiplies significantely the odds of agreeing with a already proposed/already refused by Dorado idea.
      Being an elder increases the odds of turning the discussion about an original idea into a sub idea.
      Being a young player multiplies the odds of turning a discussion into a meme-thread.

      Two significant statistical anomalies :

      - Dealer of Death, is quick to answer to 80% of topics, and either trolls, or answers with a terminal "no" style of sentence.
      - The Destroyer 4, turns instantly 2/3 of topics he participates into immediate meme-thread that can't be salvaged afterward.

      So, i think that your consideration that elders don't like new idea is weighted by Dealer of Death, which tends, i agree, to just launch a rocket at ideas without taking the time to express why "such idea wouldn't be workable".
      On the other side, you are yourself hardly someone that could feel threatened by that, as you are in the "let's destroy this idea" army, on a statistical basis.


      My own take will be simple :

      When an idea is ludicrously idiotic, my mental sanity requires i don't take it too seriously, because i consider that it's a matter of mutual respect :

      If you had an idea while on the toilet, and that the 15 meters between your bathroom and your desk was the only distance you invested to "think about it", it's likely i will NOT invest one hour of my time to think, investigate, do maths, and such.

      On the other side, if a idea is well thought, and that it's demonstrated the guy really put heart and mind into it, i WILL invest time on it even if i disagree, to suggest "how to make it work", or how to make it "more acceptable" to Dorado. Thereafter, i can guarantee i will at the very least forward it to them so that they discuss it. My powers stop there though.
      Reading Opulon is breathe of fresh air…
      This post should be pinned somewhere.
      I am Aeneas, duty-bound and known above high air of heaven by my fame, carrying with me in my ships our gods of hearth and home, saved from the foe. I look for Italy to be my fatherland, and my descent is from all-highest Jove.
    • The developer post omitted one key point:

      "We will release the elite ships. They will have amazing stats and you'll be able to make tons of them. Then once you're all excited we will nerf them and you'll be able to make 3, but only after you've researched something that you really really don't care about".

      Ok, am being a bastard, fine. But isn't that the trend?
    • i havnt readanything about elite fregatate being stealth. and even if. its bo big deal.

      Admiral lvl 4 is stealth as well. So once i felt like the big guy being stealth and so to use admiral for recon purpose. then i ran into anstack of 5 deatroyers. surprise they reveal stealth. game over.
      @Dorado If you Close the Forum and move everything to Discord you will lose my Feedback for sure.
    • Sgniappo wrote:

      The developer post omitted one key point:

      "We will release the elite ships. They will have amazing stats and you'll be able to make tons of them. Then once you're all excited we will nerf them and you'll be able to make 3, but only after you've researched something that you really really don't care about".

      Ok, am being a bastard, fine. But isn't that the trend?
      one unit isn’t a trend.
      Id even argue that they didnt really gut the EAA to begin with.
      I am The Baseline for opinions
    • They did release overpowered units here and there, but not really on purpose, and it's why balancing is a thing.


      About the EAA unplayable, it's a player skill issue in my opinion. The thing was incredibly strong to the point i threw in the bin attack helicopters, gunships, and strike fighters together, to only make EAA because anyone with a few brain cell and acdess to a calculator could conclude that it would be idiotic "not to produce them".

      Now they are still S-tier, they are just not beyond the 9999+ overflow treshold of power.

      I still advocate for further nerfing them, but in damage, while boosting their HP.

      This is also tied to my vision that elite units should'nt be replacers (as they are currently) but niche specialists. If a elite unit is designed "to be made at every game instead of everything else", i tend to think it's not a good design. And i've warned against power creeping. 20-20 damage strike fighter is fun, so it needs a 35-35 ASF to have a fun counter. Then you need a 20-20 SAM to counter them in a fun way.

      Before you know it, we are now a Asian MMO RPG with "combat rating" where serotonine is derived from our happiness at seeing higher and higher numbers.

      Whenever i see reasonings about EAA being "fun" so its stats are perfect, i can't help myself but to picture me at my desk with a kid repeteadly asking if i have games on my phone. He's funny, but i'm a busy man.

      Dorado is however always doing balancing by the spoon. 15% damage nerf , let's see how it goes. You can expect more (for other units) down the line.
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • Opulon wrote:

      They did release overpowered units here and there, but not really on purpose, and it's why balancing is a thing.


      About the EAA unplayable, it's a player skill issue in my opinion. The thing was incredibly strong to the point i threw in the bin attack helicopters, gunships, and strike fighters together, to only make EAA because anyone with a few brain cell and acdess to a calculator could conclude that it would be idiotic "not to produce them".

      Now they are still S-tier, they are just not beyond the 9999+ overflow treshold of power.

      I still advocate for further nerfing them, but in damage, while boosting their HP.

      This is also tied to my vision that elite units should'nt be replacers (as they are currently) but niche specialists. If a elite unit is designed "to be made at every game instead of everything else", i tend to think it's not a good design. And i've warned against power creeping. 20-20 damage strike fighter is fun, so it needs a 35-35 ASF to have a fun counter. Then you need a 20-20 SAM to counter them in a fun way.

      Before you know it, we are now a Asian MMO RPG with "combat rating" where serotonine is derived from our happiness at seeing higher and higher numbers.

      Whenever i see reasonings about EAA being "fun" so its stats are perfect, i can't help myself but to picture me at my desk with a kid repeteadly asking if i have games on my phone. He's funny, but i'm a busy man.

      Dorado is however always doing balancing by the spoon. 15% damage nerf , let's see how it goes. You can expect more (for other units) down the line.
      To me, this philosophical view isn't just putting the cart before the horse, but putting the wheels on top of the wagon and turning the horse around and forcing him to walk backwards.

      There is a time and a place for everything, and the time for nerfing is after beta testing is complete. It's at that point they should realize, "Hey, 97% of everyone driving our new model die in horrible fiery crashes when cornering. Maybe we should put a speed governor on it." Releasing units that are super cool, useful and fun and then nerfing them is wrong, and the equivalent of you taking a Lamborghini out for a test drive and loving it, and when you buy one, being given the keys to a 1985 Yugo.
      *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***
      The KING of CoN News!!!
      The "Get off my lawn!" cranky CoN Forums Poster - not affiliated with Dorado in any way


      "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD
    • This has been labelled the "League of Legends business model".

      Release new heroes : make them overpowered so a lot of people play it and buy skin for it. After the season, nerf it so it gets back in the fray.

      I fail plainly to understand both of your comparison but i agree that units shouldn't be released overpowered, because it always requests a significant energy to explain afterward why the unit needs to be brought back in the orbit of regular balance.

      I also don't want to have overpowered units that then would be, logically, countered by other elite units. I'm not incredibly keen of seeing only black and red units in my maps, especially if my opponents don't and can only use the regular.

      If we ever reach to that point of "fun" in the game where elite become regular, and regular become cattle, well, i think i'll call it a good time and quit.
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • Dealer of Death wrote:

      Opulon wrote:

      They did release overpowered units here and there, but not really on purpose, and it's why balancing is a thing.


      About the EAA unplayable, it's a player skill issue in my opinion. The thing was incredibly strong to the point i threw in the bin attack helicopters, gunships, and strike fighters together, to only make EAA because anyone with a few brain cell and acdess to a calculator could conclude that it would be idiotic "not to produce them".

      Now they are still S-tier, they are just not beyond the 9999+ overflow treshold of power.

      I still advocate for further nerfing them, but in damage, while boosting their HP.

      This is also tied to my vision that elite units should'nt be replacers (as they are currently) but niche specialists. If a elite unit is designed "to be made at every game instead of everything else", i tend to think it's not a good design. And i've warned against power creeping. 20-20 damage strike fighter is fun, so it needs a 35-35 ASF to have a fun counter. Then you need a 20-20 SAM to counter them in a fun way.

      Before you know it, we are now a Asian MMO RPG with "combat rating" where serotonine is derived from our happiness at seeing higher and higher numbers.

      Whenever i see reasonings about EAA being "fun" so its stats are perfect, i can't help myself but to picture me at my desk with a kid repeteadly asking if i have games on my phone. He's funny, but i'm a busy man.

      Dorado is however always doing balancing by the spoon. 15% damage nerf , let's see how it goes. You can expect more (for other units) down the line.
      To me, this philosophical view isn't just putting the cart before the horse, but putting the wheels on top of the wagon and turning the horse around and forcing him to walk backwards.
      There is a time and a place for everything, and the time for nerfing is after beta testing is complete. It's at that point they should realize, "Hey, 97% of everyone driving our new model die in horrible fiery crashes when cornering. Maybe we should put a speed governor on it." Releasing units that are super cool, useful and fun and then nerfing them is wrong, and the equivalent of you taking a Lamborghini out for a test drive and loving it, and when you buy one, being given the keys to a 1985 Yugo.

      Opulon wrote:

      This has been labelled the "League of Legends business model".

      Release new heroes : make them overpowered so a lot of people play it and buy skin for it. After the season, nerf it so it gets back in the fray.

      I fail plainly to understand both of your comparison but i agree that units shouldn't be released overpowered, because it always requests a significant energy to explain afterward why the unit needs to be brought back in the orbit of regular balance.

      I also don't want to have overpowered units that then would be, logically, countered by other elite units. I'm not incredibly keen of seeing only black and red units in my maps, especially if my opponents don't and can only use the regular.

      If we ever reach to that point of "fun" in the game where elite become regular, and regular become cattle, well, i think i'll call it a good time and quit.
      Not to speak for DoD, but what his creative analogy basically describes to me is what we call in America a bait and switch. A company advertises a good or service and then delivers a different good or service (usually not as good) and takes the customer's money in the process.

      Furthermore, this is what came to my mind when I see CON nerfing elite units when people purchase security council to gain access to said units.

      Do I think this intentional?

      A solid NO.

      I fully realize that gaming industry specifically has many working parts that need attention and adjustment. The business model is to function loose. Get the product out the door and fix or fine tune it later.

      Or as American surfer slang says: "Sloppy, wet and choppy". Which can refer to ocean waves or other activities such as s3x.

      @Dealer of Death I like your Yugo analogy. I used to use the Yugo as part of my sales strategy at a large financial company I worked for briefly. We had the superior product but at a higher price and I would use the Yugo as part of my sales conversation to describe my competitors product. Cheap, unsafe and inferior.
    • One of the core tenants of design is to stay flexible and test numbers. Do we test out a unit beforehand? YES Can we extensively test to the point of perfection? Absolutely not.

      The true data comes from the way players use a unit and how it influences the current meta. As Opulon mentioned, the original EAA made other units simply unattractive. So a nerf was definitely warranted.
    • Adm Lexx wrote:

      Hi Everyone.

      What does everyone think of a “blockade” function for fire control. It would be a useful function to secure a travel lane, and create more realism in the mechanics of the game.

      It’s something I’ve been mulling over, and thought it might be an excellent feature request.
      Blockade function’s goals is to deter enemy from going past a certain point.
      In game if enemy past and ur arty sees the enemy it will open up, thus the enemy player would either have to rush the arty unit or hastily retreat back home. Either way “Blockade” function is redundant and utterly useless, as people in real life will still command troops to past “blockades” at all costs.
      How good is a “blockade” depends on how strategic that place in and what defenses you have there