Elite frigate broken op

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    • Elite frigate broken op

      I’m not sure if this has come up as an issue or not but I just used the elite frigate for first time and it is definitely broken and changes the game in a major way. The fact that they can’t be stacked is what makes them even more broken.

      In my current game I went with maxed frigates and maxed cruisers a total of 16 - half frigates and half cruisers. I put them in stacks of 4 with the fifth elite frigate to make stacks of 5. Doing that you can have all 4 stacks in the exact same spot in the ocean so all I have to do is just send them on their merry way, declare war and put up aggressive attack control. It is like stacking 20 ships without getting any debuff penalty. They attack at the same time and the anti air goes off at the same time.
      damage to surface vessels = 233
      Damage to subs = 116
      Anti air against fighters and bombers = 150
      Against helicopters = 63
      Each stack has enough missile defence themselves so not important
      Damage against soft land units = 74
      Damage against hard land units = 55
      I know there was plans to make them stackable but I’m not sure if aircraft carrier is stackable or not because it would have the same issue.
      you can make some deadly stacks if you go all destroyers or all cruisers with elite frigate in each stack
    • playbabe wrote:

      well do you know they all will received FULL damage when got attack.
      aka you just played pub game where no one shoot back, anyshit work there.
      An other one of ‘that happened in public match so it doesn’t count’

      I didn’t know and I’m not sure if that’s true or if the damage is divided or only applied to one stack. I will check that in my next match. But what does that have to do with it being a public match? I’m not active enough to join an alliance so my experience is always in public matches. However if you don’t think that getting attacked by 20 ships, at full strength, in one tick is overpowered then I don’t think you realize what I’m talking about and you might not understand until you’re on the receiving end.

      Even if all of the stacks get hit the same amount and damage is not divided and spread it is still imbalanced.
      CM will be useless.
      NPA is generally too slow to escape enveloping anti air before getting a hit in and will get one shot before reaching the target unless it’s perfect timing. Even then it they will die immediately.
      the only thing that can do damage is other ships with range of 100. Even then if you are the one getting attacked first you will be dealing damage back to all of the ships with a few hundred less hp if they even survive so the damage you deal back is tiny in comparison. If you deal the first damage and the damage does apply fully to all stacks that will be very costly, I will check that in the next game I start.
      People already hit and run with their stacks and rotate their ships to get this kind of damage imbalance but the damage comes in rounds from one stack at a time. The difference is you are one shotting most stacks or at least making them useless.

      I swear people play some alliance matches and they think nothing that happens in public matches applies to them. I can’t believe I have to explain why this is op. If you don’t think this is op You either misunderstood what I was saying or you just don’t know the game mechanics that well to understand it. This is game mechanics. The developers clearly thought that stacking all of your ships into one stack should come with a penalty and now that penalty isn’t there anymore
    • Admiral & Others

      I've tried reading these posts and following the chains of events or the causes and effects people are trying to describe, and I have to tell you all - it's incomprehensible to me.

      I'm not a super-genius or the game's most experienced player; but I'm also not clueless.

      These descriptions are just too full of holes, vague references/pronouns, and shifting assumptions about contexts.

      I'm glad that it seems to make sense to some of you; and I'm not trying to pick a fight.

      Instead, I'm writing this to let you know a part of the audience you might be trying to persuade isn't able to follow your arguments.

      If you want to persuade all/more readers you need to be more careful when describing the apples-on-apples alternative situations you're trying to compare & contrast, more careful when describing how the differences between/among those alternatives leads to different outcomes, and more careful when describing the implications of those differences.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by KFGauss ().

    • Hi KFGauss,

      Short version

      ships stack over 5 causes penalty.
      Stack with elite frigate can’t stack with an other, not possible. This allows multiple stacks to be at the same exact spot in the sea acting as if they were stacked without any penalties.
      you can have as many as 50 ships in the exact same co-ordinates without any debuff. At lvl 3 you can have 10 elite frigates none of which will stack with one an other. So you can stack 4 other ships to each one 1+4 stacks and attack at the exact same time, the same target from the same distance.

      Idk if you can imagine how naval warfare will change when people start stacking all at once and going around one hitting every stack and disappearing.
    • Admira G1 wrote:

      Hi KFGauss,

      Short version

      . . .
      Stack with elite frigate can’t stack with an other, not possible. This allows multiple stacks to be at the same exact spot in the sea acting as if they were stacked without any penalties.
      . . .
      Thanks.

      That's precisely the part that was really unclear (to me) throughout.

      The problem is that the Elite Frigate's Can't-Stack bug is breaking the game's generic over-stacking penalty by letting several stacks get formed separately and then travel to a spot where more than 5 ships will then exist in exactly the same spot without having all the ships coalesce into a single stack.

      So . . . The Elite frigate's permanent (when the bug is fixed) behavior isn't causing the effect you're describing.

      Instead you're telling us about the Elite Frigate's temporary magic power that it has only until its stacking bug is fixed.

      Correct?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by KFGauss ().

    • What you have described admira is what I do normally in naval fighting even without the elite frigates non stacking ability.

      If you have fire control settings and want to sail in the same spot with 2 or more stacks it easy to do without elite frigates. All you have to do is way point your ships and have the end destination target slightly different and as long as you have the same ships in each stack you do the same thing as you described lots of ships in the same spot while not receiving penalties.

      And if you want to defeat my navy you will need to have a lot of ships or spread me out and hit multiple locations.

      Hope this is understandable to you
    • KFGauss wrote:

      Admira G1 wrote:

      Hi KFGauss,

      Short version

      . . .
      Stack with elite frigate can’t stack with an other, not possible. This allows multiple stacks to be at the same exact spot in the sea acting as if they were stacked without any penalties.
      . . .
      Thanks.
      That's precisely the part that was really unclear (to me) throughout.

      The problem is that the Elite Frigate's Can't-Stack bug is breaking the game's generic over-stacking penalty by letting several stacks get formed separately and then travel to a spot where more than 5 ships will then exist in exactly the same spot without having all the ships coalesce into a single stack.

      So . . . The Elite frigate's permanent (when the bug is fixed) behavior isn't causing the effect you're describing.

      Instead you're telling us about the Elite Frigate's temporary magic power that it has only until its stacking bug is fixed.

      Correct?
      Exactly. It even applies for carrier I think. I don’t think they stack either but I’ve never considered it because they are more expensive and I’ve only ever used 1 or 2 per game
    • Marcellus wrote:

      What you have described admira is what I do normally in naval fighting even without the elite frigates non stacking ability.

      If you have fire control settings and want to sail in the same spot with 2 or more stacks it easy to do without elite frigates. All you have to do is way point your ships and have the end destination target slightly different and as long as you have the same ships in each stack you do the same thing as you described lots of ships in the same spot while not receiving penalties.

      And if you want to defeat my navy you will need to have a lot of ships or spread me out and hit multiple locations.

      Hope this is understandable to you
      I know and that is harder to manage. You can even be idle in the water and “overstack” without penalty without using elite frigates temporarily.
      All you have to do is stack all your ships and order some out of the formation and immediately put a time delay. It acts as the same. With the elite frigate it becomes too easy and it’s practically impossible for the other person-to get a hit in unless you’re the first person to attack. So you have 1 second to get a hit or instantly lose your stack.

      If you’re getting attacked with this kind of overstack, and your other stacks are even slightly out of range of attack, the person with the elite frigates over stacks can simply move back after the first hit (once your first stack is gone) and wait the 1 hour for the next turn to attack and then you’re in the same spot as before except one less stack to use. If you chase them, the other person can move all the ships at the same time, rush them away and if you manage to catch up to them after the 1 hour turn they can just attack you again and down your next stack.

      As for way pointing to different spots yes they work if you have fire control set to aggressive but if you don’t kill the stack immediately your ships are temporarily stuck there( also important to know if you way point them towards the enemy ships and your ships are even slightly behind one an other, your leading stack can get hit and the enemy can move back before you can get a hit in) and other stacks can get a hit in until you change the fire control settings. Now you can do this with fire control setting on hold fire and hit and run becomes extremely easy

      the point is getting the first hit is now extremely crucial. It was important before but before, making couple of mistakes and missing the first hit was recoverable. If you have 4 stacks and you miss the first hit even twice, your navy is now halved, 3 times you lose the game. Before missing the first hit 3 times meant either you lose 1 good stack or 3 of your stacks are damaged
      I imagine radar will only show it as 1 stack as well
    • Zozo001 wrote:

      Marcellus wrote:

      want to sail in the same spot with 2 or more stacks
      Sure, this is the way to avoid over-stacking penalty. What the original poster suggested is still untrue, however: it is very much NOT "like stacking 20 ships", as non-stacked units' combat damage is different (multiple) from stacked ones.
      yes it does come from multiple stacks but it effectively comes from one stack, because the attack time and point are he same from every stack
    • Admira G1 wrote:

      idk how the file will be posted but here it is
      A single hit will deal equal damage to all stacks.
      enjoy.


      You complain about it being „op“ yet you forget its the sheer inability of players in public matches that even lets you get away with a strategy that essentially is begging for 5 times the damage.


      The ability to speak create forum posts evidently does not make you intelligent.
      I am The Baseline for opinions
    • Teburu wrote:

      Admira G1 wrote:

      idk how the file will be posted but here it is
      A single hit will deal equal damage to all stacks.enjoy.


      You complain about it being „op“ yet you forget its the sheer inability of players in public matches that even lets you get away with a strategy that essentially is begging for 5 times the damage.


      The ability to speak create forum posts evidently does not make you intelligent.
      here we go again with ‘it happened in public match it doesn’t count’

      I’m not complaining, I’m pointing out to a game mechanic that became possible.
      Ive fought plenty of alliances in public games and I’ve fought in alliance games and I’ve destroyed them all so save your alliance game snobbery. If you don’t think this is broken game mechanics you are clueless. I literally can’t explain it any better and any decent player will see just from the picture what the problem is there. Do me a favour and don’t bother responding to any of my threads because my experience is generally in public games (it doesn’t apply to you cause I’m a dumbo and you’re so smart) and I try to avoid posting on people’s skill level because obviously I know there is generally a difference between skill level of alliance matches and public matches, generally.
      this concerns game mechanics that applies to any match. You would have to willingly ignore that to bring up the skill level of the opponent.

      Literally every time I’ve seen you post it reads as ‘I’m too intelligent and your post is dumb and not even worth understanding’. There are a few toxic players on this forum that make that their mission. You’re one of the few that I keep seeing
    • „became possible“? its always been possible, you just needed actual timing so they dont stack on top of each other. And its a moot point anyway since their aim is for them to be stackable.


      „Literally every time I’ve seen you post it reads as ‘I’m too intelligent and your post is dumb and not even worth understanding’„

      Frankly not surprising considering the sheer quantity of bullshit people post on the forums, something that only seems to have increased in recent times.

      And about publics: If 90% of the people in public matches are inactive, it ofc has a major impact on playstyle
      I am The Baseline for opinions
    • I’ll address the ‘all your ships will get hit equal damage that way’ argument.


      First I admit I don’t know if that is true or not but suppose it’s true.

      That’s from a removed context of a match. You are assuming you have shared intel from your opponent and can see this happening to you.

      Then you would have to get the first hit otherwise your stack will be dead the first hit.

      Even then, if you manage to get the first hit with a stack of 4 cruisers and officer, yes that would a big loss.

      Elite frigate has a sonar and radar of 125 so you are at a sight disadvantage unless you have NPA or other form of flying radar/sonar. Even if you see that you can’t bring it into sight range to see how many stacks there are. If it comes into sight range a stack of 5 NPA will quickly die to the combined anti air of multiple stacks.

      Let’s say you know there are multiple stacks and decide to sacrifice one stack to get a hit on all of them, the extended radar/sonar of the elite frigate will show other ships coming towards you, so a player can very quickly reposition so they are not all in the same spot because they are in individual stacks. In that case you get 1 turn but you are near multiple stacks.

      Alternatively a player using elite frigate stacks can lead with one to absorb the first damage and have the other stacks behind and attack with them at the same time before ur next turn comes. In that case you get 1 turn at full health and the other player can potentially get 1 turn with multiple stacks plus 1 turn with a damaged stack.

      Not to mention scenarios where your ships bombard land units and have to wait the one hour turn.
    • Teburu wrote:

      „became possible“? its always been possible, you just needed actual timing so they dont stack on top of each other. And its a moot point anyway since their aim is for them to be stackable.

      I’ve played against people who line up their stacks and they’ve dealt the first hit. It’s not the same because I have time to react before the next stack rotates to the front. This way you have no time to react if you get hit first.

      „Literally every time I’ve seen you post it reads as ‘I’m too intelligent and your post is dumb and not even worth understanding’„

      Frankly not surprising considering the sheer quantity of bullshit people post on the forums, something that only seems to have increased in recent times.

      There you go. It’s not recent. I’ve seen it since I joined the forums. If you don’t agree or dislike something or misunderstand the ideas discussed you don’t have to chime in at all because you don’t understand what I’m saying even and at this point intentionally avoid understanding it



      And about publics: If 90% of the people in public matches are inactive, it ofc has a major impact on playstyle


      again this doesn’t concern skill level. This is basic mechanics
    • Admira G1 wrote:

      I’ll address the ‘all your ships will get hit equal damage that way’ argument.


      First I admit I don’t know if that is true or not but suppose it’s true.

      That’s from a removed context of a match. You are assuming you have shared intel from your opponent and can see this happening to you.

      Then you would have to get the first hit otherwise your stack will be dead the first hit.

      Even then, if you manage to get the first hit with a stack of 4 cruisers and officer, yes that would a big loss.

      Elite frigate has a sonar and radar of 125 so you are at a sight disadvantage unless you have NPA or other form of flying radar/sonar. Even if you see that you can’t bring it into sight range to see how many stacks there are. If it comes into sight range a stack of 5 NPA will quickly die to the combined anti air of multiple stacks.

      Let’s say you know there are multiple stacks and decide to sacrifice one stack to get a hit on all of them, the extended radar/sonar of the elite frigate will show other ships coming towards you, so a player can very quickly reposition so they are not all in the same spot because they are in individual stacks. In that case you get 1 turn but you are near multiple stacks.

      Alternatively a player using elite frigate stacks can lead with one to absorb the first damage and have the other stacks behind and attack with them at the same time before ur next turn comes. In that case you get 1 turn at full health and the other player can potentially get 1 turn with multiple stacks plus 1 turn with a damaged stack.

      Not to mention scenarios where your ships bombard land units and have to wait the one hour turn.
      Look, its as simple as initially said: Having multiple different units at the exact same spot only opens you up to more damage; you gain nothing that couldn’t be gained by stationing them a little bit more apart.
      Having multiple stacks of Ships move closely together is not a novel concept, but thats the thing; you want them close together, not on top of each other.
      Its not about „Ha but now I use X strategy to utterly demolish yours“ it’s about taking unnecessary risks.
      I am The Baseline for opinions