Armored hate

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    • Dealer of Death wrote:

      MattBooth25 wrote:

      No true veteran will tell you armor is worthless. This is a rock paper scissors game of skill and luck. Don’t listen to the people saying “if you make MBT, you’re my next victim” these people don’t understand the ways of this game. That MBT player may have a coalition focusing other aspects of military. MBT is the absolute best armor unit you can make in a coalition where you are the armorer. My point is if you make strikers. Someone is going to have SAMs, and ASF. If you make ground someone is going to have strikers. If you make SAMs and ASF someone will have ground. Make a navy someone has subs or navy patrols, make subs everyone has cruisers and destroyers. Play your way, but range units are probably superior in most cases.
      This is completely wrong and worthless. To give it value, print it out on some paper and utilize it at your next bowel movement.
      my point being that it doesnt matter which units have the best stats when other factors play an even larger role.

    • Mc_Johnsen wrote:

      @Zozo001 You are conveniently ignoring what I said.

      "Might not work against the best and most active players, but I doubt he[MattBooth] faces them all the time."

      I am not saying this is a foolproof strategy against the best players, I am saying this is a viable strategy which likely works most of the time for them. Hint: Most players on the world map aren't checking their game constantly nor are they the best players.

      I never said I am assaulting moving artillery, which btw is also incredibly easy. Tier 1 air assault helicopters have a speed of 3. Your tier 1 MRLs have at best a speed of 1. Significantly worse on worse terrain or hostile territory. Good luck running away from me when I am flying several times faster than you :) I will just wait till you aren't in your friendly flatlands/desert and pounce. And at some point you are surely going to have to send your artillery into hostile territory to shoot? Especially if the province is large. At that point, is the airspace really hostile?
      I can also make that airspace hostile for my opponent with my own anti air and ASF.

      The main weakness is enemy ASF, and those require high acivity from the opponent to use, which I explicitly ruled out for my scenario. Of course its not gonna work out if the opponent is active with ASF nearby, duh. Btw, even the best and most active players have to go to sleep at some point.

      It still hardly matters how many hits TDs can tank, nor do I need overwhelming numbers.

      About your resource game, its still wrong. You cannot compare different resources. Very simple example: both players require to build a certain amount of SAMs. This means both players have less supplies at their disposal. Thus the artillery player has less supplies for MRL production. The tank player however still has full components available for his TD production. Neither TD nor MRL have egregious costs and thats all that matters.
      i feel like you understand my strategy, and I dont even do this strategy when im playing alone, this is my go-to coalition strategy. the reason being is that i believe having a coalition full of arty players is a poor strategy. when im alone i do tend to go for an artillery build of sorts, even though i am not as good with it.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by MattBooth25 ().

    • Teburu wrote:

      While Airassaulting would most certainly work against Artillery; that seems like a way to elaborate strategy to pursue considering the extreme lack of people with the braincells necessary to build Arty in the first place.

      If Airassault would work; then so would regular helis imo.
      i honestly never practiced or even considered helis. i always thought of them as lesser strikers. i also enjoy the fact that when they are not fighting arty players i still have a solid attack force against armor which i run into alot aswell. 90% of my games i am pushing sams close to cities and then air assaulting my tank destroyers and naval infrantry into cities which gives me insane city attack rate. edit: keep in mind i do not face arty players often this is just my go to attack strategy which revolved around air assaulting cheap armor units (tank destroyers) so i was defending armors viability. i do not think all armor is good at all.

    • MattBooth25 wrote:

      Teburu wrote:

      While Airassaulting would most certainly work against Artillery; that seems like a way to elaborate strategy to pursue considering the extreme lack of people with the braincells necessary to build Arty in the first place.

      If Airassault would work; then so would regular helis imo.
      i honestly never practiced or even considered helis. i always thought of them as lesser strikers. i also enjoy the fact that when they are not fighting arty players i still have a solid attack force against armor which i run into alot aswell. 90% of my games i am pushing sams close to cities and then air assaulting my tank destroyers and naval infrantry into cities which gives me insane city attack rate. edit: keep in mind i do not face arty players often this is just my go to attack strategy which revolved around air assaulting cheap armor units (tank destroyers) so i was defending armors viability. i do not think all armor is good at all.
      I'm remain quite curious about when you typically do those things you've been describing (on what day)? This is me asking again if you can describe some how-does-your-OOB-evolve timelines.

      Do the tactics become possible on Day 10? Day 15, Day 20? Day 25?

      When is the first that you feel like you can start using each of the tactics you've been describing?

      When do you feel like you've hit your stride (aka When has the (multi-stack?) force has gotten strong enough to make you fairly confident in a fight)?

      And, I know that in my case I'm frequently wrong about dates when I try to go on just my recollections. That's why I keep records when I want to be sure about dates, and why I've looked back through the CoN News to get accurate info about when things happened in games when I wasn't keeping records.

      I suspect answering these questions would dramatically clarify why some of this thread's disagreements exist.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by KFGauss ().

    • This would be my rough estimate:

      I try to pick a country with 2 component and 2 supply cities as I am still learning and prefer the extra resources to buffer myself. (7 City countries).

      day 1-5
      *research national guard / build 3 national guard per city.
      *research mobile anti air vehicle / build 4 of them.
      *research tank destroyer
      *build lvl 1 recruiting offices / arms industry lvl 2 in all component/supply cities.
      *combine my starting infrantry into 2 large stacks. (Usually each with 1 recon vehicle, 2 anti air, remainder infrantry.
      *attack smallest easiest enemy with artillery stack.
      Day 5-10
      *continue upgrading component/supply cities arm industries to lvl 3 / lvl 1 in all cities.
      *anti air should be lvl 2, tank destroyers lvl 2.
      *infrantry are researched
      *2 more national guard per city for a total of 5
      *lvl 2 national guard.
      (At this point I usually have 2-3 stacks of 4 tank destroyers 2 Anti air and 4 infrantry.
      Day 10-20
      *Research SAMs, naval infrantry.
      *Research Mobile Radar.
      *üpgrade troops as required.

      This is the best I would be able to do unless I kept track in a current game. It’s important to remember I don’t do this strategy solo, solo I tend to stick to a tower artillery / ASF into rocket launchers and bombers.
      This is my coalition build where my members would be focusing navy and air.

    • MattBooth25 wrote:

      This would be my rough estimate:

      I try to pick a country with 2 component and 2 supply cities as I am still learning and prefer the extra resources to buffer myself. (7 City countries).

      day 1-5
      *research national guard / build 3 national guard per city.
      *research mobile anti air vehicle / build 4 of them.
      *research tank destroyer
      *build lvl 1 recruiting offices / arms industry lvl 2 in all component/supply cities.
      *combine my starting infrantry into 2 large stacks. (Usually each with 1 recon vehicle, 2 anti air, remainder infrantry.
      *attack smallest easiest enemy with artillery stack.
      Day 5-10
      *continue upgrading component/supply cities arm industries to lvl 3 / lvl 1 in all cities.
      *anti air should be lvl 2, tank destroyers lvl 2.
      *infrantry are researched
      *2 more national guard per city for a total of 5
      *lvl 2 national guard.
      (At this point I usually have 2-3 stacks of 4 tank destroyers 2 Anti air and 4 infrantry.
      Day 10-20
      *Research SAMs, naval infrantry.
      *Research Mobile Radar.
      *üpgrade troops as required.

      This is the best I would be able to do unless I kept track in a current game. It’s important to remember I don’t do this strategy solo, solo I tend to stick to a tower artillery / ASF into rocket launchers and bombers.
      This is my coalition build where my members would be focusing navy and air.
      If i come with 30 air units day 10 you are screwed.

    • enarius wrote:

      MattBooth25 wrote:

      This would be my rough estimate:

      I try to pick a country with 2 component and 2 supply cities as I am still learning and prefer the extra resources to buffer myself. (7 City countries).

      day 1-5
      *research national guard / build 3 national guard per city.
      *research mobile anti air vehicle / build 4 of them.
      *research tank destroyer
      *build lvl 1 recruiting offices / arms industry lvl 2 in all component/supply cities.
      *combine my starting infrantry into 2 large stacks. (Usually each with 1 recon vehicle, 2 anti air, remainder infrantry.
      *attack smallest easiest enemy with artillery stack.
      Day 5-10
      *continue upgrading component/supply cities arm industries to lvl 3 / lvl 1 in all cities.
      *anti air should be lvl 2, tank destroyers lvl 2.
      *infrantry are researched
      *2 more national guard per city for a total of 5
      *lvl 2 national guard.
      (At this point I usually have 2-3 stacks of 4 tank destroyers 2 Anti air and 4 infrantry.
      Day 10-20
      *Research SAMs, naval infrantry.
      *Research Mobile Radar.
      *üpgrade troops as required.

      This is the best I would be able to do unless I kept track in a current game. It’s important to remember I don’t do this strategy solo, solo I tend to stick to a tower artillery / ASF into rocket launchers and bombers.
      This is my coalition build where my members would be focusing navy and air.
      If i come with 30 air units day 10 you are screwed.
      Correct order of play is start with airforce.
      [/quote]My priority is day 15 have 40 strikers 10 supperioriry 80ng. Conquer 100 cities.
      [/quote]Next is navy for out of range countries.
      [/quote]After this you can go for other units like copters sams missles
      [/quote]Spending all resources on buildings is stupid. Its game of war and conquest not game of cities and stacks.
      [/quote]Without SF and ASF you are just chiken all game.
      [/quote]My last game played russia i had 80 strikers 26 air supperiority 170ng day 25, 2550VP. Literaly crushed everyone without problem. If there is a trouble maker you just make counter units few stacks and he cant match you in anyway.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by enarius ().

    • MattBooth25 wrote:

      Dealer of Death wrote:

      MattBooth25 wrote:

      No true veteran will tell you armor is worthless. This is a rock paper scissors game of skill and luck. Don’t listen to the people saying “if you make MBT, you’re my next victim” these people don’t understand the ways of this game. That MBT player may have a coalition focusing other aspects of military. MBT is the absolute best armor unit you can make in a coalition where you are the armorer. My point is if you make strikers. Someone is going to have SAMs, and ASF. If you make ground someone is going to have strikers. If you make SAMs and ASF someone will have ground. Make a navy someone has subs or navy patrols, make subs everyone has cruisers and destroyers. Play your way, but range units are probably superior in most cases.
      This is completely wrong and worthless. To give it value, print it out on some paper and utilize it at your next bowel movement.
      my point being that it doesnt matter which units have the best stats when other factors play an even larger role.
      OK, I was a little harsh. Sometimes (with EU doctrine) I will play in the public matches with stacks of MBT, specifically Elite MBT with their air defense. Not because they are good, but showing upwith a stack of 9 Elite MBT and a Tank Commander causes such despair to clueless noobs.
      *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***
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    • enarius wrote:

      If i come with 30 air units day 10 you are screwed.

      enarius wrote:

      enarius wrote:

      If i come with 30 air units day 10 you are screwed.
      Correct order of play is start with airforce.My priority is day 15 have 40 strikers 10 supperioriry 80ng. Conquer 100 cities.

      Next is navy for out of range countries.
      After this you can go for other units like copters sams missles
      Spending all resources on buildings is stupid. Its game of war and conquest not game of cities and stacks.
      Without SF and ASF you are just chiken all game.

      My last game played russia i had 80 strikers 26 air supperiority 170ng day 25, 2550VP. Literaly crushed everyone without problem. If there is a trouble maker you just make counter units few stacks and he cant match you in anyway.
      @enarius I'm having a really hard time believing (even while playing the most productive countries) that a Day 10 Air force of 30 units, or a Day 15 Air force of 50 units (plus 80 NG and 100 cities), or a Day 25 air force of 106 units (plus 170 NG) is possible without using Gold.

      106 SF+ASF on Day 25 is roughly 100 planes in 20 days. That's an average of 5 planes per day.

      If you're describing a strategy that depends on using Gold or that can only be implemented when playing one or two specific counties, but you don't mention that crucial fact, you're not really contributing to the discussion.

      In that vein If you want to discuss a strategy that can't be generalized to no-gold or generic-country situations, I think it only makes sense if you tell readers either how much gold would be involved or tell them which few countries can be used, so that they can think about how they might play in that same situation.

      If my hunch is wrong, please enlighten me - Exactly how does one go about producing the numbers of units you described?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by KFGauss ().

    • enarius wrote:

      MattBooth25 wrote:

      This would be my rough estimate:

      I try to pick a country with 2 component and 2 supply cities as I am still learning and prefer the extra resources to buffer myself. (7 City countries).

      day 1-5
      *research national guard / build 3 national guard per city.
      *research mobile anti air vehicle / build 4 of them.
      *research tank destroyer
      *build lvl 1 recruiting offices / arms industry lvl 2 in all component/supply cities.
      *combine my starting infrantry into 2 large stacks. (Usually each with 1 recon vehicle, 2 anti air, remainder infrantry.
      *attack smallest easiest enemy with artillery stack.
      Day 5-10
      *continue upgrading component/supply cities arm industries to lvl 3 / lvl 1 in all cities.
      *anti air should be lvl 2, tank destroyers lvl 2.
      *infrantry are researched
      *2 more national guard per city for a total of 5
      *lvl 2 national guard.
      (At this point I usually have 2-3 stacks of 4 tank destroyers 2 Anti air and 4 infrantry.
      Day 10-20
      *Research SAMs, naval infrantry.
      *Research Mobile Radar.
      *üpgrade troops as required.

      This is the best I would be able to do unless I kept track in a current game. It’s important to remember I don’t do this strategy solo, solo I tend to stick to a tower artillery / ASF into rocket launchers and bombers.
      This is my coalition build where my members would be focusing navy and air.
      If i come with 30 air units day 10 you are screwed.
      which is why i originally gave the rock paper scissors analogy. there is always a strategy to counter any other strategy, and yes if you were my neighbor and happened to focus air i would be screwed, which is why again this is a coalition build, and solo i stick with my ASF, towed arty, into bombers, and rocket launchers later game.

    • enarius wrote:

      enarius wrote:

      MattBooth25 wrote:

      This would be my rough estimate:

      I try to pick a country with 2 component and 2 supply cities as I am still learning and prefer the extra resources to buffer myself. (7 City countries).

      day 1-5
      *research national guard / build 3 national guard per city.
      *research mobile anti air vehicle / build 4 of them.
      *research tank destroyer
      *build lvl 1 recruiting offices / arms industry lvl 2 in all component/supply cities.
      *combine my starting infrantry into 2 large stacks. (Usually each with 1 recon vehicle, 2 anti air, remainder infrantry.
      *attack smallest easiest enemy with artillery stack.
      Day 5-10
      *continue upgrading component/supply cities arm industries to lvl 3 / lvl 1 in all cities.
      *anti air should be lvl 2, tank destroyers lvl 2.
      *infrantry are researched
      *2 more national guard per city for a total of 5
      *lvl 2 national guard.
      (At this point I usually have 2-3 stacks of 4 tank destroyers 2 Anti air and 4 infrantry.
      Day 10-20
      *Research SAMs, naval infrantry.
      *Research Mobile Radar.
      *üpgrade troops as required.

      This is the best I would be able to do unless I kept track in a current game. It’s important to remember I don’t do this strategy solo, solo I tend to stick to a tower artillery / ASF into rocket launchers and bombers.
      This is my coalition build where my members would be focusing navy and air.
      If i come with 30 air units day 10 you are screwed.
      Correct order of play is start with airforce.
      My priority is day 15 have 40 strikers 10 supperioriry 80ng. Conquer 100 cities.

      [/quote]Next is navy for out of range countries.
      [/quote]After this you can go for other units like copters sams missles
      [/quote]Spending all resources on buildings is stupid. Its game of war and conquest not game of cities and stacks.
      [/quote]Without SF and ASF you are just chiken all game.
      [/quote]My last game played russia i had 80 strikers 26 air supperiority 170ng day 25, 2550VP. Literaly crushed everyone without problem. If there is a trouble maker you just make counter units few stacks and he cant match you in anyway.[/quote]


      -
      I dont know how this would be possible, i usually start with ASF for the sole reason that strikers take 24 hours to initially research, and require level 2 airbases, i just dont find it plausible that you would be able to produce such a massive striker force in such a short time without spending money. I want to note that all my opinions are based on not spending gold, as with gold any logic goes away due to being able to bypass resource mechanics. edit: i usually end the game around 100-120 cities. day 15 100 cities really makes me wonder if your timeline is confused.

    • enarius wrote:

      enarius wrote:

      MattBooth25 wrote:

      This would be my rough estimate:

      I try to pick a country with 2 component and 2 supply cities as I am still learning and prefer the extra resources to buffer myself. (7 City countries).

      day 1-5
      *research national guard / build 3 national guard per city.
      *research mobile anti air vehicle / build 4 of them.
      *research tank destroyer
      *build lvl 1 recruiting offices / arms industry lvl 2 in all component/supply cities.
      *combine my starting infrantry into 2 large stacks. (Usually each with 1 recon vehicle, 2 anti air, remainder infrantry.
      *attack smallest easiest enemy with artillery stack.
      Day 5-10
      *continue upgrading component/supply cities arm industries to lvl 3 / lvl 1 in all cities.
      *anti air should be lvl 2, tank destroyers lvl 2.
      *infrantry are researched
      *2 more national guard per city for a total of 5
      *lvl 2 national guard.
      (At this point I usually have 2-3 stacks of 4 tank destroyers 2 Anti air and 4 infrantry.
      Day 10-20
      *Research SAMs, naval infrantry.
      *Research Mobile Radar.
      *üpgrade troops as required.

      This is the best I would be able to do unless I kept track in a current game. It’s important to remember I don’t do this strategy solo, solo I tend to stick to a tower artillery / ASF into rocket launchers and bombers.
      This is my coalition build where my members would be focusing navy and air.
      If i come with 30 air units day 10 you are screwed.
      Correct order of play is start with airforce.
      also keep in mind that i do start with an airforce when playing solo, i would only ever dream of not starting with a defensive airforce is if my coalition member beside me if producing airforce day 1.

    • Air supperiority doesnt change much when you are not equiped with air to ground. You need to refuel your supperiority and when your enemy has the advantage of multiple stacks you are screwed. As i say day 10 you cant match the 30 air units air to ground unless you have them ur self.
      With asf you need to fight in air while i can bomb u when you refuel. Asf is support unit to the air to ground units.

    • enarius wrote:

      Air supperiority doesnt change much when you are not equiped with air to ground. You need to refuel your supperiority and when your enemy has the advantage of multiple stacks you are screwed. As i say day 10 you cant match the 30 air units air to ground unless you have them ur self.
      With asf you need to fight in air while i can bomb u when you refuel. Asf is support unit to the air to ground units.
      your honestly confusing me, i understand your point about how 30 strikers would completely overrun a smaller group of ASF, this is true if you had 30 strikers and i had 5-10asf i couldnt stay in the air long enough before your other 25 units bombed me while i refueled, what you need to explain is how you manage to amass an amount of 30 strikers by day 10 when you need to wait 24 hours to research them, get lvl 2 airbases in all your cities, then you must never stop producing strikers in your cities, and you must have the resources to do this. It seems very unlikely at this point that you are being truthful.

    • Zanahoria_thai wrote:

      Hello commanders;
      I'm trying to get better and starting to check some information from veteran players in the forum. I've watched that you guys doesn't like armored vehicles at all. Seeing some quotes like "If you're producing MBT you're my next victim"
      And that makes me curious about how do you replace the damage mitigation of armor vehicles and other things like the big HP boost of MBT for example, plus his high damage against all type of ground forces. Because I always use armored vehicles, not always MBT but I feel the need of having armored vehicles at least for that mitigation. I hope you understand the point, it's hard for a novice (me at least) to see the pros and cons of the game when you take it more seriously.
      Thank you guys for all the replies. Have a good conquers. :))
      Dont make armour!
      Ulster, mæ luk o'ţe Gæls cunvenz ţem tu kumm tu ţe Eire!

    • KFGauss wrote:

      enarius wrote:

      As i say day 10 you cant match the 30 air units air to ground unless you have them ur self.
      As I say, describe how you build that many units that fast, or listen to me tell you your claim is either absurd or that you can be easily beaten by anyone who is equally or more active, and has a bigger credit card.
      I just remembered - @enarius is definitely a Gold user (see the post at the link below).

      So, I thank him for contributing to Dorado revenue, but his comments about countering a non-Gold-player's units are simply irrelevant.

      Unit suggestions and complains

      @enarius - You should have made this clear when you put your comments into the thread - If you had, the rest of us could have responded by telling you how we do/would use gold, when we use it.

    • KFGauss wrote:

      see the post at the link below
      Remarkable indeed. It is not just that he routinely relies on heavy gold spending - he actually calls for others to do likewise, so as to encounter "average" opponents. Funny how it has not occurred to him that this would favor the heavier spenders rather than those refining their strategies...
      Commander Zozo001 :thumbsup:
      humble player

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Zozo001 ().