It seems to me, at least, that finding that sweet spot, between being a walk in park where you vanish your opponent with ease basically wasting your time preparing and shit and being a struggling battle between you and your adversary where you don't even know if you're gonna win against, is the hardest part. What are the keys for a sucessful invasion be it on day 1, 10 or 20? Whenever I try to prepare more before invading it comes that crippling anxienty that any second now he's gonna attack me so i kinda rush the invasion leading to defeat. How do I counter this?
How do you guys prepare to invade another country?
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@Teb and I exchanged a few lines about this once - So far, I always over-estimate my opponents' strength or cleverness or both - That makes me nervous and overly-cautious.
You're probably looking for a different answer, but this one might identify what's really at the heart of most suggestions:
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The trick to it being a walk in the park is not starting to prepare just before you plan to invade a guy; but having an overall solid strategy that can deal with 90% of what you’re likely to encounter.
Dont wait for an enemy to point out the achilles heel of your strategy, actually try and find and ofc then fix it yourself.
You dont prepare for a single war, but all of them.I am The Baseline for opinions -
Notice that his OP implies that walks-in-the-park mean that you over-prepared.
Teburu wrote:
The trick to it being a walk in the park is not starting to prepare just before you plan to invade a guy; but having an overall solid strategy that can deal with 90% of what you’re likely to encounter.
Dont wait for an enemy to point out the achilles heel of your strategy, actually try and find and ofc then fix it yourself.
You dont prepare for a single war, but all of them.
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yeah man i get what you're trying to say but you can't have a strategy that will work with every single adversary you'll come across. Even when you have the most all around units (like SFs) there will be a guy with SAMS ready and then you'll have to change your strategy. The other problem with having an achilles heel is that until you can fix that problem which normaly takes time (producing buildings units etc) is that in that brief period of time your enemies can exploit your vulnerability, to the point where it can decide games.
Teburu wrote:
The trick to it being a walk in the park is not starting to prepare just before you plan to invade a guy; but having an overall solid strategy that can deal with 90% of what you’re likely to encounter.
Dont wait for an enemy to point out the achilles heel of your strategy, actually try and find and ofc then fix it yourself.
You dont prepare for a single war, but all of them.
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walks in the park are not that great because you invested so much resources aginst specifically some guy and if you get attacked by other person then you have to move everything again when you didn't to so...
KFGauss wrote:
Notice that his OP implies that walks-in-the-park mean that you over-prepared.Teburu wrote:
The trick to it being a walk in the park is not starting to prepare just before you plan to invade a guy; but having an overall solid strategy that can deal with 90% of what you’re likely to encounter.
Dont wait for an enemy to point out the achilles heel of your strategy, actually try and find and ofc then fix it yourself.
You dont prepare for a single war, but all of them.
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We are agreeing
shrek6satan wrote:
walks in the park are not that great because you invested so much resources aginst specifically some guy and if you get attacked by other person then you have to move everything again when you didn't to so...KFGauss wrote:
Notice that his OP implies that walks-in-the-park mean that you over-prepared.
However, I (and I think @Teb too) like to reduce our chances of losing units so much that many battles do become walks in the park.
I/we hate the time-and-resources waste we suffer when we lose any unit.
Your tolerance for losses might be different. -
Most of the time the „fix“ is fairly simple and preparing for the most likely counters you’ll face is pretty easy.
shrek6satan wrote:
yeah man i get what you're trying to say but you can't have a strategy that will work with every single adversary you'll come across. Even when you have the most all around units (like SFs) there will be a guy with SAMS ready and then you'll have to change your strategy. The other problem with having an achilles heel is that until you can fix that problem which normaly takes time (producing buildings units etc) is that in that brief period of time your enemies can exploit your vulnerability, to the point where it can decide games.Teburu wrote:
The trick to it being a walk in the park is not starting to prepare just before you plan to invade a guy; but having an overall solid strategy that can deal with 90% of what you’re likely to encounter.
Dont wait for an enemy to point out the achilles heel of your strategy, actually try and find and ofc then fix it yourself.
You dont prepare for a single war, but all of them.
Just taking the SF for example; while its true that they are easily countered by sams and they are also the most likely counter you’ll see, guess what unit also requires a lvl 2 airbase? attack helis.
For comparison: In one of my last games I had about 10 different units researched by day 31; all at a level where they actually manage to do their job
- you don’t need to max out units for them to be useful; you especially dont need to max units out before researching another one
- fixing the biggest holes in your strategy is usually fairly easy since often units can fill more than one role
- take a look at the rest of the players in general and judge based on prior experience what units you’ll be most likely to face in the round (spoiler: its often infantry/tanks/strikers)
- unit diversity is important
Not what I meant at all. Actually read what I wrote; Rarely do you prepare against any one guy in particular. Simply because if the other is using even half is brain that by the time you’ll start preparing you’re so far behind it doesnt matter anymore.shrek6satan wrote:
walks in the park are not that great because you invested so much resources aginst specifically some guy and if you get attacked by other person then you have to move everything again when you didn't to so...KFGauss wrote:
Notice that his OP implies that walks-in-the-park mean that you over-prepared.Teburu wrote:
The trick to it being a walk in the park is not starting to prepare just before you plan to invade a guy; but having an overall solid strategy that can deal with 90% of what you’re likely to encounter.
Dont wait for an enemy to point out the achilles heel of your strategy, actually try and find and ofc then fix it yourself.
You dont prepare for a single war, but all of them.
Its why having already on day 1 a plan of what units you want to build is important.
In general you want to have:
- a unit to kill ground units
- a unit to kill aircraft
- a unit to kill ships
Thats is ofc incredibly simplified but its a bare minimum of 3 different units youll need to have. And simply having all 3 often puts you way ahead of any sort of competition.
Knowing what the Units the enemy used doesnt change which units you yourself have (the timeframe is usually too short to invest in new units in any meaningful capacity) but you can change how you approach it with the units you have at your disposal.I am The Baseline for opinions -
“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”- Sun Tzu
This is the secret of the victories in all days game you want.“The dog does not bark out of courage, but out of fear.”
Chinese Proverb -
Thank you for contributing next to nothing to this thread
Gen ROMTOR wrote:
“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”- Sun Tzu
This is the secret of the victories in all days game you want.
I am The Baseline for opinions -
when i say prepare i'm talking about where do i position my units for taking his cities and stuff like that. What will these units do and these units do stuff like that. how much coordination the different branches need to have. The units i research sure they are important in the overall strategy but I wanted to go into the specifics into invading another opponent. Should I go directly to his homeland cities or should i start by conquering his conquered territories or maybe a little bit of both? Now for point nº1 you made: it's true you don't need to max out every single unit you having but just upgrading them to the point of them becoming useful (i.e air transport or in case of missiles actualy hitting the target lol) is a pain in the ass. The point i'm trying to make is that you need to make compromises so with these compromises in mind and the other thing I've talked before what's your mindset with taking the offesinves aginst other players?
Teburu wrote:
Most of the time the „fix“ is fairly simple and preparing for the most likely counters you’ll face is pretty easy.shrek6satan wrote:
yeah man i get what you're trying to say but you can't have a strategy that will work with every single adversary you'll come across. Even when you have the most all around units (like SFs) there will be a guy with SAMS ready and then you'll have to change your strategy. The other problem with having an achilles heel is that until you can fix that problem which normaly takes time (producing buildings units etc) is that in that brief period of time your enemies can exploit your vulnerability, to the point where it can decide games.Teburu wrote:
The trick to it being a walk in the park is not starting to prepare just before you plan to invade a guy; but having an overall solid strategy that can deal with 90% of what you’re likely to encounter.
Dont wait for an enemy to point out the achilles heel of your strategy, actually try and find and ofc then fix it yourself.
You dont prepare for a single war, but all of them.
Just taking the SF for example; while its true that they are easily countered by sams and they are also the most likely counter you’ll see, guess what unit also requires a lvl 2 airbase? attack helis.
For comparison: In one of my last games I had about 10 different units researched by day 31; all at a level where they actually manage to do their job
- you don’t need to max out units for them to be useful; you especially dont need to max units out before researching another one
- fixing the biggest holes in your strategy is usually fairly easy since often units can fill more than one role
- take a look at the rest of the players in general and judge based on prior experience what units you’ll be most likely to face in the round (spoiler: its often infantry/tanks/strikers)
- unit diversity is important
Not what I meant at all. Actually read what I wrote; Rarely do you prepare against any one guy in particular. Simply because if the other is using even half is brain that by the time you’ll start preparing you’re so far behind it doesnt matter anymore.Its why having already on day 1 a plan of what units you want to build is important.shrek6satan wrote:
walks in the park are not that great because you invested so much resources aginst specifically some guy and if you get attacked by other person then you have to move everything again when you didn't to so...KFGauss wrote:
Notice that his OP implies that walks-in-the-park mean that you over-prepared.Teburu wrote:
The trick to it being a walk in the park is not starting to prepare just before you plan to invade a guy; but having an overall solid strategy that can deal with 90% of what you’re likely to encounter.
Dont wait for an enemy to point out the achilles heel of your strategy, actually try and find and ofc then fix it yourself.
You dont prepare for a single war, but all of them.
In general you want to have:
- a unit to kill ground units
- a unit to kill aircraft
- a unit to kill ships
Thats is ofc incredibly simplified but its a bare minimum of 3 different units youll need to have. And simply having all 3 often puts you way ahead of any sort of competition.
Knowing what the Units the enemy used doesnt change which units you yourself have (the timeframe is usually too short to invest in new units in any meaningful capacity) but you can change how you approach it with the units you have at your disposal.
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Of course, it's diferent if we are in day 1 or day 10 or day 20.
Like i post, before i atack, i have a strategy in the game: kill in first days who is expanding fast then me. I choose the first enemies to follow that startegy. I study that enemies: what they are developing (see buildings they are making) and see what they are using. If i don't have units to destroy them, i have to go to other way and prepare the defense. In firstday, you have to develop basic units in air, sea and ground to defeat them. But i choose only cheap units can be usefull in late phases of the game. Of course , my objective and strategy will be diferent if you play Overkill, Flashpoint or WWWIII. Because in same type of games you need to take victory sites to gain VP. In every games, my aim is to gain VP to win. It's the focus. Basicly , in first days, objective is survive until day 3 (in day 2 you can have other units diferen from day 1). In some cases you begin the game with inf, 1 artilary and 1 asf. You don't have superiority in nothing except if you recruit more infantry or NG to defend cities. After day 3, you can do more because can develop strickers, frigates and aa mobile. You begin to have more than day 1. But always analize what your neighbours are doing.
For me, it's very important to know, who is playing. I made a list of a ranking of best players. I see who is near me. And i follow what they are : KD, rank, victories, looses, military, economic, his cities, what they are using, his allies, and if they are from same alliance. I don't have an fixed units to develop. Normaly, against new players or inactives, i use one tactic. For others, i see the best tactic to defeat them. After years of experiences, i have a base of units to use against diferent kind a players. It cover ground, sea and air, defense and atack. You have to study the caracteristics of the good units for that. I don't have a linear answer for you because the games are diferents, the coalitions are diferents, the players are diferents. Normaly, you can see, until day 10, there are a lot of players. After that, still in the game the actives and more dangerous. And after day 20, only rest the players who want to win. Of course, in day 20, you have an army, navy and airforce complete with the type of units you need. It's not necessary to be in maximum level. But sure, after day 30, i have all units needed to win. There are games , almost players use strickers. Other, almost use tanks. Now, in last months, there appear a lot using helis. Normaly in navy, few players develop it and develop destroiers and subs. It's why nobody can answer you in a linear way“The dog does not bark out of courage, but out of fear.”
Chinese Proverb -
The answers are pretty easy for my typical games (with the uncertainty about the game's outcome lasting 20 to 35-ish days).
shrek6satan wrote:
. . .
where do i position my units for taking his cities and stuff like that.
. . .
Should I go directly to his homeland cities or should i start by conquering his conquered territories or maybe a little bit of both?
. . .
I prep by having a good enough hospital close-enough to the front lines.
I put my planes in one or two air bases that are close enough to the targets to keep the round-trip times low enough (don't ask me how low "low enough" is, but it's certainly less than 60-70 minutes).
I put my cheap infantry near our mutual border(s). Sometimes that mean that some infantry are in naval transports.
I attack the opponent's planes (or air bases), trying to catch those planes on the ground.
I send the infantry out across a large front.
Once the skies are clear, I continuously hit the ground stacks from the air to grind them into dust - Biggest/closest ones first).
I largely ignore the cities until the opposing units are gone. Cities are easy to capture later, especially after the opponent knows they're a dead man walking.
What about Navies? - If the opponent is a naval threat (I needed to figure that out earlier (by watching their Naval Bases, by scouting over international waters, and by watching the CoN News)) I do whatever is necessary to counter the ships, including building NSF instead of some SF.
What about AA? Kill them with patrol attacks that are sensibly-timed.
What about newly-produced units in uncaptured cities - Kill them when they appear.
How long should the conquest take from first-shot to knowing-the-outcome? 4 to 12 hours (longer to actually capture the territory). -
Are you a moderator? What kind a job that "Teacher" is? Who do you think you are, to comment on the opinions of others in a destructive way? Did you know that you are one of the contributors to this forum being increasingly abandoned by those who want to participate? Never think, that you will be the "baeline" of my opinion. You are the "baseline for opinions" in your home. Know that I have no regard for what you write here. You could use a little more education and humility. Arrogance looks good elsewhere. Do you work for Dorado Games? I don't know you constructive opinions without putting others down. Once again, there are moderators who are very attentive to the threads they post here, but I've never seen them draw your attention to your considerations, which are sometimes inappropriate, disrespectful and not very encouraging for those who humbly want to express their opinion. You don't stop me from saying what I think and I will continue to do so whether you like it or not. And I say no more. I've already spent too much time with you.
Teburu wrote:
Thank you for contributing next to nothing to this thread
“The dog does not bark out of courage, but out of fear.”
Chinese Proverb -
what about the unpredictable things like if the opponent counter attacks or if he has a coalition helping him? Or lets say the AA is too tough for your planes or if he has ASFs... it's seems that strategy works better towards NPC countries. Like sure against an inactive player just send shit tons of NGs conquering provinces and leave the cities to the SFs but for an active player... how for example do you fing his stacks in the huge territories he has (im talking late game now) among other stuff.
KFGauss wrote:
The answers are pretty easy for my typical games (with the uncertainty about the game's outcome lasting 20 to 35-ish days).shrek6satan wrote:
. . .
where do i position my units for taking his cities and stuff like that.
. . .
Should I go directly to his homeland cities or should i start by conquering his conquered territories or maybe a little bit of both?
. . .
I prep by having a good enough hospital close-enough to the front lines.
I put my planes in one or two air bases that are close enough to the targets to keep the round-trip times low enough (don't ask me how low "low enough" is, but it's certainly less than 60-70 minutes).
I put my cheap infantry near our mutual border(s). Sometimes that mean that some infantry are in naval transports.
I attack the opponent's planes (or air bases), trying to catch those planes on the ground.
I send the infantry out across a large front.
Once the skies are clear, I continuously hit the ground stacks from the air to grind them into dust - Biggest/closest ones first).
I largely ignore the cities until the opposing units are gone. Cities are easy to capture later, especially after the opponent knows they're a dead man walking.
What about Navies? - If the opponent is a naval threat (I needed to figure that out earlier (by watching their Naval Bases, by scouting over international waters, and by watching the CoN News)) I do whatever is necessary to counter the ships, including building NSF instead of some SF.
What about AA? Kill them with patrol attacks that are sensibly-timed.
What about newly-produced units in uncaptured cities - Kill them when they appear.
How long should the conquest take from first-shot to knowing-the-outcome? 4 to 12 hours (longer to actually capture the territory).
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TLDR - A properly executed shock-and-awe blitz makes most of your concerns/worries moot. The opponent is crippled and then dead before they can pull together a reaction.
shrek6satan wrote:
what about the unpredictable things like if the opponent counter attacks or if he has a coalition helping him? Or lets say the AA is too tough for your planes or if he has ASFs... it's seems that strategy works better towards NPC countries. Like sure against an inactive player just send shit tons of NGs conquering provinces and leave the cities to the SFs but for an active player... how for example do you fing his stacks in the huge territories he has (im talking late game now) among other stuff.KFGauss wrote:
The answers are pretty easy for my typical games (with the uncertainty about the game's outcome lasting 20 to 35-ish days).I prep by having a good enough hospital close-enough to the front lines.shrek6satan wrote:
. . .
where do i position my units for taking his cities and stuff like that.
. . .
Should I go directly to his homeland cities or should i start by conquering his conquered territories or maybe a little bit of both?
. . .
I put my planes in one or two air bases that are close enough to the targets to keep the round-trip times low enough (don't ask me how low "low enough" is, but it's certainly less than 60-70 minutes).
I put my cheap infantry near our mutual border(s). Sometimes that mean that some infantry are in naval transports.
I attack the opponent's planes (or air bases), trying to catch those planes on the ground.
I send the infantry out across a large front.
Once the skies are clear, I continuously hit the ground stacks from the air to grind them into dust - Biggest/closest ones first).
I largely ignore the cities until the opposing units are gone. Cities are easy to capture later, especially after the opponent knows they're a dead man walking.
What about Navies? - If the opponent is a naval threat (I needed to figure that out earlier (by watching their Naval Bases, by scouting over international waters, and by watching the CoN News)) I do whatever is necessary to counter the ships, including building NSF instead of some SF.
What about AA? Kill them with patrol attacks that are sensibly-timed.
What about newly-produced units in uncaptured cities - Kill them when they appear.
How long should the conquest take from first-shot to knowing-the-outcome? 4 to 12 hours (longer to actually capture the territory).
Without drowning both of us in endless what-if questions, all I can tell you is that that general outline has (so far) consistently turned into wins.
On the strategic level - The first few days are slow, and killing NPCs and abandoned countries continuously is important, in addition to killing live opponents (always be growing).
Usually my wins are coalition wins.
More than once, by the end of the game, I was annoyed with my allies because were not keeping up with me, and annoyed with myself that I wasn't confident enough to just stick to playing solo; but that's another topic.
The big caveat that I explained recently in a different thread is that I am usually lucky to be able to keep an eye on my troops the entire time I'm awake, and therefore I can micromanage my units (planes in particular).
Combine my advice with @Teb's if you like. We aren't contradicting each other.
You need to be the "unpredictable" event that the other players worry about. -
My game is too fluid to give a meaningful answer to this question.*** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***
The KING of CoN News!!!
The "Get off my lawn!" cranky CoN Forums Poster - not affiliated with Dorado in any way
"Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD -
Let them come! Defending is way easier than attacking, especially early game.
shrek6satan wrote:
Whenever I try to prepare more before invading it comes that crippling anxienty that any second now he's gonna attack me so i kinda rush the invasion leading to defeat. How do I counter this?
In fact, contrary to the popular maxim, defence is often the best form of attack. Let the other guy commit his forces against your entrenched positions, and then flank or counter attack into his lightly or undefended lands.
When you're ready to attack someone, provoke them into attacking you. -
@Walter - You're writing about a completely different situation than one outlined above.
In the scenario outlined above, the person implementing the advice (and who can be active enough to implement it successfully) doesn't use a mindset of entrenching units and then slugging it out in a melee brawl with attacking units.
If they do that, the risk of losing units is too high and the speed of advance is generally too slow.
Instead they want to always be sending air power to kill the opponents' advancing/attacking units and then send those air units to a hospital.
Against a tough opponent they still might lose a plane or two (or three), but the goal is losing zero and having cheap infantry follow behind the planes.
Also, I understand that the enemy gets a vote - If someone manages to get in the first shot against you at a spot far from your planes' current positions, then you do either hunker down or cede ground until the planes arrive.
In either/any case, your goal is quickly killing those attackers without losing any friendly units and avoiding engaging in a melee brawl, even if you'll win it.
Needing to restore ground units' Health is something to avoid like the plague. -
Well, I was responding to a specific bit of the OP, where he said he would often rush an invasion before he was ready, due to anxiety over whether he would be invaded first.
KFGauss wrote:
@Walter - You're writing about a completely different situation than one outlined above.
In the scenario outlined above, the person implementing the advice (and who can be active enough to implement it successfully) doesn't use a mindset of entrenching units and then slugging it out in a melee brawl with attacking units.
If they do that, the risk of losing units is too high and the speed of advance is generally too slow.
Instead they want to always be sending air power to kill the opponents' advancing/attacking units and then send those air units to a hospital.
Against a tough opponent they still might lose a plane or two (or three), but the goal is losing zero and having cheap infantry follow behind the planes.
Also, I understand that the enemy gets a vote - If someone manages to get in the first shot against you at a spot far from your planes' current positions, then you do either hunker down or cede ground until the planes arrive.
In either/any case, your goal is quickly killing those attackers without losing any friendly units and avoiding engaging in a melee brawl, even if you'll win it.
Needing to restore ground units' Health is something to avoid like the plague.
My view is that being invaded first is often an advantage. You can see the enemy's stack composition when it enters your territory; you can predict its likely route; you can put up a defence somewhere along that route where terrain is to your advantage. You can move your own units around much more quickly than he can, to get them concentrated in the right places. Because you can see the other guy's stack composition, you can make informed decisions over whether to engage it (and if so, what to engage it with), or whether to just allow it to advance while you reposition or bombard it at distance - either by air or artillery or both.
If you're attacking, then you don't know the enemy's stack compositions unless you've got special forces. So you've generally got to guess a lot more - and that can cost you, especially if you're using a lot of Strike Fighters. Which of those radar blips is the SAM stack? How many SAMs has he got there and at what level? Does he have ASFs nearby?
If you're fighting on territory that you control, you can see all this stuff. If you're fighting on enemy territory, they can see all your stuff. In an even battle, the defender holds most of the cards. You've got to attack at some point, but if you can waste a good portion of the other guy's forces by making him attack first, then your counter-attack is going to be a lot more straight-forward.
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