Good unit formation?

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    • Good unit formation?

      Hello all,

      I have been playing CoN for over a month and a half now, with my very first game (as Poland on 26-player map) still ongoing.

      Despite my conquests, I still have not figured out what use Combat Recon Vehicles and Mechanized Infantry.

      So far my unit combos are as follows:

      Land: 2 MBTs and 3 Motorized Infantry
      Naval Landings: 2 Amphibious Combat Vehicles and 3 Marines
      Airborne: 2 Airmobile Infantry, 2 Tank Destroyers, and 1 Towed Artillery
      Helicopters: 3 Gunships and 2 Attack
      Naval: 3 Destroyers, 2 Frigates
      Carrier: 2 Cruisers, 2 Frigates, 1 Carrier
      Carrier Air: 4 Naval Strike Fighters and 3 ASW Helicopters

      So if I could get some help on:
      A) What's the point of CRVs and Mechanized?
      B) Are these good unit formations?

      Thanks!
    • Hey there, CRVs provide support and a larger view range for your troops which can be useful in early game. They are also very useful as cheap scouts as they don't cost much. Plus, they can see stealthed units such as Spec Ops if you research it.

      For formations, they are down to personal taste. However, I personally have a different Naval Doctrine to yours, favouring frigates over destroyers. So my normal battlegroup consist of 3 frigates and 2 destroyers. I did this because Frigates have a good anti missile and anti air value. They can make or break battles if they decide to spam aircraft or missiles. 2 destroyers are plenty to take out any subs or ships. For the carrier groups, I prefer to use 2 destroyers with 2 frigates. I leave the cruisers for dedicated anti ship and ground bombardment missions. Since I use destroyers and frigates in my Carrier group, I spare the ASW helicopters since the destroyers have a better anti sub capability and is not as fragile. So for a balanced air group on the carrier. I use 4 Naval Air Superiority Fighters, 5 Naval Strike FIghters and a Naval AWACS.

      In any case, you decide what formations and combinations work for you. Need AA? Put some frigates or TDS in a group. Need AT? Get some tank destroyers.
      Celerriter et Audax (Swift and Bold)
    • every 5th, 10th, 15th and so on unit in stack make whole stack slow down, as before. (also stack of 5 units is slower trhen stack of 4,3,2 or single unit, but same speed as stack of 6,7,8 and 9 units)
      every unit after 5th has efficience penalty for whole stack, but stack of 6 is stronger then stack of 5, stack of 7 is stronger then stack of 6 and so on (at some point you get stack of higher number is not any more stronger as 1 unit fewer)

      Also for attack i try use 4er stacks, for defense 6er. (but in some case i use even larger or smaller stacks for attack or for defense)
      There are not a perfect formation. But instead of doubling tanks you should put something else. 1tank, 1mech.inf, 1 CRV, 1 motoinf and 1 marines are better in attack and defense vs unknown enemy. If you have known enemy, then best formation is antiformation.
    • Agreed! It's a good thread! (trust me) That being said, I use mechanized infantry rather than motorized. Like, constantly. I never ever use motorized infantry. I believe mechanized infantry are basically just motorized infantry but stronger? They're well suited for accompanying armored vehicles. I tend to use CRVs and mechanized infantry together, with strike jets providing support for them. I often pair mechanized with MBTs as well for taking cities and going up against heavier opposition
    • Given only infantry can hold cities, its best your stacks center around them.

      I like to have my divisions able to deal with threats by themselves, so they'll inlclude AA, AT/MBT and Arty. Also, Having break through units is good idea: fast units able to deal with holes in the front.

      I'm not sure on heli stacks, I mean, i'd prefer fixed wing aircraft so I dont see the value in heli (someone educate me if i'm wrong to put my faith in fixed wing)

      and I agree with naval doctrine, but i'd have dedicated strike and ASW carriers.
    • TankBuster wrote:

      Given only infantry can hold cities, its best your stacks center around them.

      I like to have my divisions able to deal with threats by themselves, so they'll inlclude AA, AT/MBT and Arty. Also, Having break through units is good idea: fast units able to deal with holes in the front.

      I'm not sure on heli stacks, I mean, i'd prefer fixed wing aircraft so I dont see the value in heli (someone educate me if i'm wrong to put my faith in fixed wing)

      and I agree with naval doctrine, but i'd have dedicated strike and ASW carriers.
      As far as helicopters go, they are certainly vulnerable to attack by mobile anti-air. One reason I like them because I think they do more damage against their specialty than strike fighters? Like I think an attack heli does more damage against armor than strike fighters do (although they do less against infantry than a strike fighter), and a gunship does more against infantry than a strike fighter. Another reason is that they are useful when your opponent uses SAM systems or theater defense systems. Since neither of those will damage helicopters, you can run air operations on ground that is defended by those units without fear of losing your helicopters instantly to those units. I dunno! I like both helis and fixed-wing aircraft. One HUGE benefit of strike fighters and bombers is that they can launch cruise missiles, which adds TONS to their potential damage dealt. I use helicopters primarily on one game. On my others I tend to use strike fighters and air superiority fighters. I dunno! Different playstyles I guess.
    • abradyson1 wrote:

      TankBuster wrote:

      Given only infantry can hold cities, its best your stacks center around them.

      I like to have my divisions able to deal with threats by themselves, so they'll inlclude AA, AT/MBT and Arty. Also, Having break through units is good idea: fast units able to deal with holes in the front.

      I'm not sure on heli stacks, I mean, i'd prefer fixed wing aircraft so I dont see the value in heli (someone educate me if i'm wrong to put my faith in fixed wing)

      and I agree with naval doctrine, but i'd have dedicated strike and ASW carriers.
      As far as helicopters go, they are certainly vulnerable to attack by mobile anti-air. One reason I like them because I think they do more damage against their specialty than strike fighters? Like I think an attack heli does more damage against armor than strike fighters do (although they do less against infantry than a strike fighter), and a gunship does more against infantry than a strike fighter. Another reason is that they are useful when your opponent uses SAM systems or theater defense systems. Since neither of those will damage helicopters, you can run air operations on ground that is defended by those units without fear of losing your helicopters instantly to those units. I dunno! I like both helis and fixed-wing aircraft. One HUGE benefit of strike fighters and bombers is that they can launch cruise missiles, which adds TONS to their potential damage dealt. I use helicopters primarily on one game. On my others I tend to use strike fighters and air superiority fighters. I dunno! Different playstyles I guess.
      So I guess it comes down to situation? Have good reserves of both types of air craft and deploy them based on how the enemy is fighting
    • Last warrior wrote:

      every 5th, 10th, 15th and so on unit in stack make whole stack slow down, as before. (also stack of 5 units is slower trhen stack of 4,3,2 or single unit, but same speed as stack of 6,7,8 and 9 units)
      every unit after 5th has efficience penalty for whole stack, but stack of 6 is stronger then stack of 5, stack of 7 is stronger then stack of 6 and so on (at some point you get stack of higher number is not any more stronger as 1 unit fewer)

      Also for attack i try use 4er stacks, for defense 6er. (but in some case i use even larger or smaller stacks for attack or for defense)
      There are not a perfect formation. But instead of doubling tanks you should put something else. 1tank, 1mech.inf, 1 CRV, 1 motoinf and 1 marines are better in attack and defense vs unknown enemy. If you have known enemy, then best formation is antiformation.


      That's not how it works. Not even close.

      The stack does not slow down based upon how many units are in it. The stack slows down based upon the terrain that the stack is on or passing through and the unit value of the worst rating in the stack. Say for instance a tank is rated at 2 in a certain terrain but an infantry is rated at 4 and your stack has 4 infantry and 1 tank and you are passing through that terrain. Your stack is going to move at 2 rather than 4.

      Having less in a stack does not make it better, just as having more in a stack does not make it better. The optimum number in a stack is 5. Any more than that and your efficiency goes down. The HP of the stack remains the same but the combat effectiveness goes down. That is the attack and defense values. Example: I faced off against a foe who had 64 Attack Helicopters in a stack. This put their effectiveness at around 2.5%. I attacked this with a stack of five units that consisted of 1 MBT and 4 Mechanized infantry. I sustained damage but did not lose a single unit until the stack dropped down to 5 units of attack helicopters.
    • No, there also is a critical mass factor, that reduces speed, as shown here



      The Tooltip when you put your cursor upon speed also precises that speed is impacted by accumulation penalities.

      This is most spectacular with airplanes. Try to reco a sector with 12 planes at once. You'll see your planes reduced to somewhat 50% their optimum speed.



      CoN just give us very clear hints that we shouldn't rely on Doomstack except to be Static HP buffer.
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Opulon ().

    • Lionsmane wrote:

      Last warrior wrote:

      every 5th, 10th, 15th and so on unit in stack make whole stack slow down, as before. (also stack of 5 units is slower trhen stack of 4,3,2 or single unit, but same speed as stack of 6,7,8 and 9 units)
      every unit after 5th has efficience penalty for whole stack, but stack of 6 is stronger then stack of 5, stack of 7 is stronger then stack of 6 and so on (at some point you get stack of higher number is not any more stronger as 1 unit fewer)

      Also for attack i try use 4er stacks, for defense 6er. (but in some case i use even larger or smaller stacks for attack or for defense)
      There are not a perfect formation. But instead of doubling tanks you should put something else. 1tank, 1mech.inf, 1 CRV, 1 motoinf and 1 marines are better in attack and defense vs unknown enemy. If you have known enemy, then best formation is antiformation. /end of my citat*


      wrong citat writer Lionsmane added:



      That's not how it works. Not even close.

      The stack does not slow down based upon how many units are in it. The stack slows down based upon the terrain that the stack is on or passing through and the unit value of the worst rating in the stack. Say for instance a tank is rated at 2 in a certain terrain but an infantry is rated at 4 and your stack has 4 infantry and 1 tank and you are passing through that terrain. Your stack is going to move at 2 rather than 4.

      Having less in a stack does not make it better, just as having more in a stack does not make it better. The optimum number in a stack is 5. Any more than that and your efficiency goes down. The HP of the stack remains the same but the combat effectiveness goes down. That is the attack and defense values. Example: I faced off against a foe who had 64 Attack Helicopters in a stack. This put their effectiveness at around 2.5%. I attacked this with a stack of five units that consisted of 1 MBT and 4 Mechanized infantry. I sustained damage but did not lose a single unit until the stack dropped down to 5 units of attack helicopters.

      You failed citat, i did not said "
      That's not how it works. Not even close.
      The stack does not slow down based upon how many units are in it. The stack slows down based upon the terrain that the stack is on or passing through and the unit value of the worst rating in the stack. Say for instance a tank is rated at 2 in a certain terrain but an infantry is rated at 4 and your stack has 4 infantry and 1 tank and you are passing through that terrain. Your stack is going to move at 2 rather than 4.
      Having less in a stack does not make it better, just as having more in a stack does not make it better. The optimum number in a stack is 5. Any more than that and your efficiency goes down. The HP of the stack remains the same but the combat effectiveness goes down. That is the attack and defense values. Example: I faced off against a foe who had 64 Attack Helicopters in a stack. This put their effectiveness at around 2.5%. I attacked this with a stack of five units that consisted of 1 MBT and 4 Mechanized infantry. I sustained damage but did not lose a single unit until the stack dropped down to 5 units of attack helicopters."

      you said it, and even your failed citat skills are only equal to your reading skills. If you can not read, dont try it.
      But most awfull are your gameplay skills.

      If you have 4 inf and 1 tank, your stack has 80% speed of slowest unit in stack on those terrain. Every 5th, 10th and so on, unit in stack adds another speed penalty. And please, dont pay your electricity bill next 6 monthes. really please, dont do it.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Last warrior ().

    • Light tank squad:
      1 main baatle tank
      2 mechanized infantry.
      Mobile anti-air squad:
      1 mobile anti-air vehicle
      1 mobile SAM system
      1 mechanized infantry
      1 cobat recon vehicle
      light special forces squad:
      3 Helicopter gunship
      2 spcial forces
      And one question
      How weak is a 23-unit air squad ?
      That squad includes:
      2 Naval patrol aircraft lvl.1
      21 air superitority fighter lvl.2
      THREE THINGS YOU MUST REMEMBER FROM ME-
      1:When you play,never foget to research as many technology as you can-later will be useful
      2:.Don't overbuild-Or when the fuel bills come,you will cry .
      3:First attack playable countries-or later they will eat you alive.
      thanks for reading.
    • you don't actually need to stack to be good. Even many independant units can flank around and cause confusion on frontlines and stacking means that the unit u put up in the stack could have been used somewhere else. In my current game as germany i moved into belgium and ate up austria the french player couldn't respond effectively as he had stripped off the units supposed to be kept at austrian and belgium border as he was in a coalition with them and put them near the german-french border in a whole stack so by the time he came back his allies were done for good and then i smashed into his border and took up his territories.
      Declaring war isn't enough, one must also know how to wage war.
      Lost battles can be summed up in two words: TOO LATE
    • Last warrior wrote:

      Lionsmane wrote:

      Last warrior wrote:

      every 5th, 10th, 15th and so on unit in stack make whole stack slow down, as before. (also stack of 5 units is slower trhen stack of 4,3,2 or single unit, but same speed as stack of 6,7,8 and 9 units)
      every unit after 5th has efficience penalty for whole stack, but stack of 6 is stronger then stack of 5, stack of 7 is stronger then stack of 6 and so on (at some point you get stack of higher number is not any more stronger as 1 unit fewer)

      Also for attack i try use 4er stacks, for defense 6er. (but in some case i use even larger or smaller stacks for attack or for defense)
      There are not a perfect formation. But instead of doubling tanks you should put something else. 1tank, 1mech.inf, 1 CRV, 1 motoinf and 1 marines are better in attack and defense vs unknown enemy. If you have known enemy, then best formation is antiformation. /end of my citat*


      wrong citat writer Lionsmane added:



      That's not how it works. Not even close.

      The stack does not slow down based upon how many units are in it. The stack slows down based upon the terrain that the stack is on or passing through and the unit value of the worst rating in the stack. Say for instance a tank is rated at 2 in a certain terrain but an infantry is rated at 4 and your stack has 4 infantry and 1 tank and you are passing through that terrain. Your stack is going to move at 2 rather than 4.

      Having less in a stack does not make it better, just as having more in a stack does not make it better. The optimum number in a stack is 5. Any more than that and your efficiency goes down. The HP of the stack remains the same but the combat effectiveness goes down. That is the attack and defense values. Example: I faced off against a foe who had 64 Attack Helicopters in a stack. This put their effectiveness at around 2.5%. I attacked this with a stack of five units that consisted of 1 MBT and 4 Mechanized infantry. I sustained damage but did not lose a single unit until the stack dropped down to 5 units of attack helicopters.

      You failed citat, i did not said "That's not how it works. Not even close.
      The stack does not slow down based upon how many units are in it. The stack slows down based upon the terrain that the stack is on or passing through and the unit value of the worst rating in the stack. Say for instance a tank is rated at 2 in a certain terrain but an infantry is rated at 4 and your stack has 4 infantry and 1 tank and you are passing through that terrain. Your stack is going to move at 2 rather than 4.
      Having less in a stack does not make it better, just as having more in a stack does not make it better. The optimum number in a stack is 5. Any more than that and your efficiency goes down. The HP of the stack remains the same but the combat effectiveness goes down. That is the attack and defense values. Example: I faced off against a foe who had 64 Attack Helicopters in a stack. This put their effectiveness at around 2.5%. I attacked this with a stack of five units that consisted of 1 MBT and 4 Mechanized infantry. I sustained damage but did not lose a single unit until the stack dropped down to 5 units of attack helicopters."

      you said it, and even your failed citat skills are only equal to your reading skills. If you can not read, dont try it.
      But most awfull are your gameplay skills.

      If you have 4 inf and 1 tank, your stack has 80% speed of slowest unit in stack on those terrain. Every 5th, 10th and so on, unit in stack adds another speed penalty. And please, dont pay your electricity bill next 6 monthes. really please, dont do it.
      hey bruh people mistakes but don't criticize someone like that and try to make them look like a fool it doesn't look nice.
      Declaring war isn't enough, one must also know how to wage war.
      Lost battles can be summed up in two words: TOO LATE