STATEMENT ABOUT BALANCING UPDATE 10 MAY

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  • Display Spoiler

    Germanico wrote:

    Dear Players,

    I understand some of you are extremely upset but that's absolutely not what we intended.


    Let me clarify some points: We had a bad bug in the Unit gifting - so we had to close it down until fixed. At the same time we have good reason to believe that the resource trading (specifically starting rares and starting money) was being abused.
    What good does it do to the honest player if some cheater ruins the game for all? Everybody leaves the game - and then? Players complain about empty maps and the cheater wins the match. Not an option.
    So what to do? We decided to close the exploit down and will reiterate it according to the unit trading - which already has a cap etc. It's totally not as easy as simply editing a number value and copy/pasting these things. They take time and we are a small team with limited resources - so we had to pull the plug until we find a good solution. Have we seriously ever let you down so far? In no way do we intend to ruin your RP experience or tactical options (please look at all the contrary features we have actually introduced in the game or are working on atm: Expanded Coalitions and Outposts among others.)

    About the more balancing related issues with HP and pricing of units/research: it is a fact that lots of the mid/end game fights take a long time (unless a nuke comes into play). Remember we quite elementally increase the HP and Damages and Special Features a unit obtains with leveling up (unlike COW where the HP remain the same practically). Thus we decided to lower these mid and late HP numbers accordingly for most but not all units, usually in the max 20-25% range. Now that's noticeable but not a game changer across the board. Anything seriously below 20% and in game you wouldn't actually notice it unless on a statistics overview. Please note all the unit damages etc remained - so offensive units such as the marines retain their punch. Should we find that we overdid it for a unit specifically (I am thinking about the Motinf and Mechinf in particular) we will add some points again with an update. It's called balancing online games and includes analyzing cashflow in game: Slowly increasing pricing is necessary and really not drastic considering it predominately concerns money (ingame currency) of which we can see from our statistics, samples and experience that most players in later stages have a lot of. It will lead to players sometimes considering possibly picking a new unit research instead of pushing a branch to the very top - yes. That's intended and not terrible at all. We hope to potentially increase the variety of units encountered that way. Let's see if it works before killing it with words. Diversity on the battlefield is something to embrace, or?




    And now, should you still be reading this shows you are exactly the person i am looking for: a last really important request - because no statistic can actually report player fun and frustration: I would really love to receive reports from the experienced (and critical) guys concerning your personal experience with frustrating moments in the game. And I don't mean bugs but rather situations early/mid/late where you had the feeling you were stuck or artificially throttled, starved of resources etc. Even how you play with your gold and what motivates you to spend. I know this is a sensitive issue but many players play with "some" gold and that keeps us in the job. Please send them to me per IM - cause the more info the better. By comparing your experience with your profile and the game should allow us to get a better idea of the elasticity with which we can operate.

    Thanks for the assist and please don't give up on this great game.

    //G




    @Germanico



    G/, I have been around here since day 1. And have been hanging around the forums for a long time. But this is nothing more than a step back. I believe I summed it up perfectly when I said " The cost of dealing with this cheating, far outweighs the benefit". I have no idea how players are cheating in this manner, I have not witnessed it it. Im not doubting its not an issue, but the only thing that has effected me. Is how completely damaged my defenses and Militarise are. Now that I cant trade with my allies. ( Not to mention this completely screwing over The roleplay community). If this is temporary, why not addre ss the issue in a much better light, maybe you didn't know but this is a big topic.

    It should have been addressed prior or after the TDS update. In its own separate update, clearly pointing out the issue and the way the team plan to address it. And most important word should been there "Temporary".






    Regarding the branching out and diversity. I am all for specificity and progressing on a small group of units than a large variety. Its usually more efficient militarily with production slots, and requirements for producing. As well as in combat. The diversity between "mixes" comes from, really the mood and strategy of the player, their enemies and the geography. Playing in Europe I have started to use mainly helicopters. They can deal more damage than compared to what I would call "traditional" strike fighters. Why? Well Europe is much smaller and the provinces are a lot closer when compared to America or Asia. Also, I value skill/Quality over Quantity. In South America I am using more long range strike fighters and heavy bombers. Because well, them forests are big! Same with navies, I justify Frigates when playing in South East Asia, as I can easily use them for air defense over my mainland, as well the fact that there are a lot of cities around the coast. Where as I prefer to use submarines likes of North Sea. Not too clustered, not too big. And I may not need a big navy.

    Now, I just have to have lvl1 naval patrol aircraft, [b]lvl1 ASW Heli. lvl1 Strike fighter, lvl1 attack heli. lvl1 heavy bomber, lvl1 Gunship. lvl1 Tank destroyer, lvl1 tank. lvl 1MLRS, lvl 1artillery. lvl1 TDS, lvl1 Mobile SAM, lvl1 naval air supremacy or lvl 1 air supremacy fighter..... [/b]

    Or I could use simply, have Level 6 ASW Heli, Level 6 Attack helicopter. Level 6 Heli gunship. Level 6 TDS. Level 7 Air supremacy fighter
    Let me put it the way economists put it.. "No duplication of tasks"

    Display Spoiler
    ( European naval air supremacy needs its progression, Id like to see the naval air supremacy progressions soon XD)[b]



    The resources thing with AI nations, isnt my biggest worry. I dont care a whole lot about it tbh. Maybe I will in the future, but atm I still get cash, mp and production slot.





    I Think this Conversation From a discord channel sums up my final thoughts

    "What happened in CoN?"

    "A major setback"
    The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants
    - Thomas Jefferson

    Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
    - Milton Friedman

    Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.
    - Sun Tzu

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Oceanhawk: I work with numbers, balance sheets and P+L Hence cant spell :P ().

  • Oceanhawk wrote:

    Now, I just have to have lvl1 naval patrol aircraft, lvl1 ASW Heli. lvl1 Strike fighter, lvl1 attack heli. lvl1 heavy bomber, lvl1 Gunship. lvl1 Tank destroyer, lvl1 tank. lvl 1MLRS, lvl 1artillery. lvl1 TDS, lvl1 Mobile SAM, lvl1 naval air supremacy or lvl 1 air supremacy fighter.....

    Or I could use simply, have Level 6 ASW Heli, Level 6 Attack helicopter. Level 6 Heli gunship. Level 6 TDS. Level 7 Air supremacy fighter
    Let me put it the way economists put it.. "No duplication of tasks"
    all units of level one were already better then only 1 unit each category maximized. Cause stack of 1 lvl2 airsupermacity fighter 1lvl1 naval airsupermacity fighter, 1 lvl2 striker, and 1 lvl1 naval striker would kill stack of 4 lvl7 airsupermacity fighters. After that, lvl2 and lvl1 Airforce kill lvl 7 helicopters, and so on. it was already so that divercity rules.

    Now devs try teach every one for that lesson. Im not happy about stronger opponents in future, but it is ok.
  • Last warrior wrote:

    Oceanhawk wrote:

    Now, I just have to have lvl1 naval patrol aircraft, lvl1 ASW Heli. lvl1 Strike fighter, lvl1 attack heli. lvl1 heavy bomber, lvl1 Gunship. lvl1 Tank destroyer, lvl1 tank. lvl 1MLRS, lvl 1artillery. lvl1 TDS, lvl1 Mobile SAM, lvl1 naval air supremacy or lvl 1 air supremacy fighter.....

    Or I could use simply, have Level 6 ASW Heli, Level 6 Attack helicopter. Level 6 Heli gunship. Level 6 TDS. Level 7 Air supremacy fighter
    Let me put it the way economists put it.. "No duplication of tasks"
    all units of level one were already better then only 1 unit each category maximized. Cause stack of 1 lvl2 airsupermacity fighter 1lvl1 naval airsupermacity fighter, 1 lvl2 striker, and 1 lvl1 naval striker would kill stack of 4 lvl7 airsupermacity fighters. After that, lvl2 and lvl1 Airforce kill lvl 7 helicopters, and so on. it was already so that divercity rules.
    Now devs try teach every one for that lesson. Im not happy about stronger opponents in future, but it is ok.
    Im sorry mate, I dont understand you?
    The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants
    - Thomas Jefferson

    Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
    - Milton Friedman

    Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.
    - Sun Tzu
  • Last warrior wrote:

    ok before antiair stats of strikers were nerfed it could be even airfight, now it should be air-soil bombing of lvl 7 fighter while refueling.
    lol, dude I dont get what ur saying

    but I think I agree :P
    The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants
    - Thomas Jefferson

    Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
    - Milton Friedman

    Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.
    - Sun Tzu
  • Jamhougin wrote:


    Oceanhawk wrote:

    lol, dude I dont get what ur sayingbut I think I agree :P
    I think he was saying he's an EUnionist and he'll rip up your Irish constitution.

    At least we have a Constitution, unlike the "civilised" people next door

    Was it the part where we acknowledge the occupation of half our country by a foreign power? cos we had to get rid of that years ago....

    O yeah, Liam nesson plays a brilliant Micheal Collins, he will return to fight for Eire!!!

    As well as our exiled children in America and our gallant allies in europe :P
    The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants
    - Thomas Jefferson

    Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
    - Milton Friedman

    Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.
    - Sun Tzu
  • Oceanhawk wrote:

    Jamhougin wrote:

    Oceanhawk wrote:

    lol, dude I dont get what ur sayingbut I think I agree :P
    I think he was saying he's an EUnionist and he'll rip up your Irish constitution.
    At least we have a Constitution, unlike the "civilised" people next door

    Was it the part where we acknowledge the occupation of half our country by a foreign power? cos we had to get rid of that years ago....

    O yeah, Liam nesson plays a brilliant Micheal Collins, he will return to fight for Eire!!!

    As well as our exiled children in America and our gallant allies in europe :P
    Tiocfaidh ar la!!
  • Jamhougin wrote:

    Tiocfaidh ar la!!
    Ta an la suaht!
    The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants
    - Thomas Jefferson

    Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
    - Milton Friedman

    Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.
    - Sun Tzu
  • Samuel PM wrote:

    Germanico wrote:

    Display Spoiler
    I think this is getting way out of hand. Posting concrete instructions on how to cheat the system (even if not meant seriously) is not acceptable.
    Please be advised that we are currently looking into how to prevent the extremely unfair methods we are seeing emerging from some of the players.

    Also note, that in no way are we generally blaming all players helping each other in friendship and alliances in the games - but we can see that it is clearly and noticeably being abused by some: very much to the detriment of honest players, roleplayers, paying players and other folks whose interests are very much central to us.

    By bashing players who are asking or rather demanding fair play you are (hopefully unintentionally) allying yourself with the few who abuse the system.

    //G

    The problem is that with this update, you're hurting all Honest Players!
    It is simple to solve these abuses by multi accounts, just ban the game, if you are suspected of receiving numerous amounts of resources, suspend the account.

    But do not harm the vast majority of honest players.
    Exactly.

    Guys! You cannot punish fair players for things that cheaters do. Banning something just because someone who don't give a thing about fairplay/rules/law could abuse it, is just wrong. It's not solving the problem, it's just making it worse - NOT for cheaters, but for the majority of your playerbase and loyal community. The community which widely disaproves that change...
  • @Oceanhawk: I understand you don't like most of the changes but one thing I can take off your mind: fortunately you misunderstood the leveling changes - they of course are NOT dependent of each other and you do NOT need to research ALL techs of one category in that level before progressing. Wow - should it have been something I said or wrote I beg pardon. The system remains basically as it was : you can of course continue pushing one branch e.g. Subs or Helos ignoring the others & thus specializing.

    //G
    "Going to war without France is like going hunting without an accordion." Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf
  • Ivan Dolvich wrote:

    Samuel PM wrote:

    Germanico wrote:

    Display Spoiler
    I think this is getting way out of hand. Posting concrete instructions on how to cheat the system (even if not meant seriously) is not acceptable.
    Please be advised that we are currently looking into how to prevent the extremely unfair methods we are seeing emerging from some of the players.

    Also note, that in no way are we generally blaming all players helping each other in friendship and alliances in the games - but we can see that it is clearly and noticeably being abused by some: very much to the detriment of honest players, roleplayers, paying players and other folks whose interests are very much central to us.

    By bashing players who are asking or rather demanding fair play you are (hopefully unintentionally) allying yourself with the few who abuse the system.

    //G

    The problem is that with this update, you're hurting all Honest Players!It is simple to solve these abuses by multi accounts, just ban the game, if you are suspected of receiving numerous amounts of resources, suspend the account.

    But do not harm the vast majority of honest players.
    Exactly.
    Guys! You cannot punish fair players for things that cheaters do. Banning something just because someone who don't give a thing about fairplay/rules/law could abuse it, is just wrong. It's not solving the problem, it's just making it worse - NOT for cheaters, but for the majority of your playerbase and loyal community. The community which widely disaproves that change...
    I think this update should be reversed except for two parts:

    The new TDS and increasing resource costs for higher level researches.

    I won't jump into the fray about no AI resources, etc. in this post. However, I believe it's necessary to REVERSE NO RARE MATERIAL TRADING. as cheaters only use this as a roadblock, as demonstrated in an earlier post by @Opulon and does not eliminate cheating in any way, or even discourage it. Instead, it hurts people who want to trade fairly. I know that player to player resource trading was disabled in the recent update, but here's something that actually happened in one of my games about a month ago: I was not on for a couple of days, and the AI did practically no research, but did train massive amounts of MBTs, so when I came back I had a fuel shortage. I didn't want it to bring my fuel down to zero, so I asked one of my allies for a trade: I give rare materials for fuel in return. Soon I had built enough arms industries to compensate, and had sent my tanks in suicide missions, and therefore had no shortage anymore. I don't know what happens when you have a shortage and your resource count is zero (I've cautious when it comes to that), but I don't assume it to be pleasant. That is just one fair rare materials trade, and there are definitely more instances.

    My point is, as many other users have already concluded, that much of this update is HARMFUL to non-cheating players.
  • B-17 wrote:

    I was not on for a couple of days, and the AI did practically no research, but did train massive amounts of MBTs, so when I came back I had a fuel shortage. I didn't want it to bring my fuel down to zero, so I asked one of my allies for a trade: I give rare materials for fuel in return. Soon I had built enough arms industries to compensate, and had sent my tanks in suicide missions, and therefore had no shortage anymore.
    Sounds like it would be nice if in a future update they would make it so you could dismiss units...