STATEMENT ABOUT BALANCING UPDATE 10 MAY

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  • STATEMENT ABOUT BALANCING UPDATE 10 MAY

    Dear Players,

    I understand some of you are extremely upset but that's absolutely not what we intended.


    Let me clarify some points: We had a bad bug in the Unit gifting - so we had to close it down until fixed. At the same time we have good reason to believe that the resource trading (specifically starting rares and starting money) was being abused.
    What good does it do to the honest player if some cheater ruins the game for all? Everybody leaves the game - and then? Players complain about empty maps and the cheater wins the match. Not an option.
    So what to do? We decided to close the exploit down and will reiterate it according to the unit trading - which already has a cap etc. It's totally not as easy as simply editing a number value and copy/pasting these things. They take time and we are a small team with limited resources - so we had to pull the plug until we find a good solution. Have we seriously ever let you down so far? In no way do we intend to ruin your RP experience or tactical options (please look at all the contrary features we have actually introduced in the game or are working on atm: Expanded Coalitions and Outposts among others.)

    About the more balancing related issues with HP and pricing of units/research: it is a fact that lots of the mid/end game fights take a long time (unless a nuke comes into play). Remember we quite elementally increase the HP and Damages and Special Features a unit obtains with leveling up (unlike COW where the HP remain the same practically). Thus we decided to lower these mid and late HP numbers accordingly for most but not all units, usually in the max 20-25% range. Now that's noticeable but not a game changer across the board. Anything seriously below 20% and in game you wouldn't actually notice it unless on a statistics overview. Please note all the unit damages etc remained - so offensive units such as the marines retain their punch. Should we find that we overdid it for a unit specifically (I am thinking about the Motinf and Mechinf in particular) we will add some points again with an update. It's called balancing online games and includes analyzing cashflow in game: Slowly increasing pricing is necessary and really not drastic considering it predominately concerns money (ingame currency) of which we can see from our statistics, samples and experience that most players in later stages have a lot of. It will lead to players sometimes considering possibly picking a new unit research instead of pushing a branch to the very top - yes. That's intended and not terrible at all. We hope to potentially increase the variety of units encountered that way. Let's see if it works before killing it with words. Diversity on the battlefield is something to embrace, or?

    HOT TOPIC - concerning resource and map balancing let me please provide you with some hard facts about the maps as I believe there is a lot of confusion which should be avoided:



    Above you will see the resource locations provided on our first version of the 26 player map (many of you are still playing it), as well as the overhauled new 26 and new 45 player maps.
    Maps do not update automatically - so all running games are not affected (they would actually break if we did that). To see these changes you need to start a new map after said update.
    With the Exemption of Supplies we have increased all resources across the board on the new 45er map. While balancing units we shifted some Supply demand (eg. Airmobile) to Components thus freeing up space for some other resources. At least in theory. Overall we actually increased the total amount of resources on the map by 25%. Remember: The map size remained the same. Let me give you an example:

    Player F plays France - formerly, on the old 26 player map he had in his direct vicinity the minor AI nations of Belgium, Switzerland and Spain (hope I didn't forget any). These together had 5 resources. On the new 45er map the same player F for France will find the same nations as neighbor, albeit without their minor nation resources, now instead hosting 8 resources in Spain. An increase of 3 on the exactly same territory picked as an example. Additionally Belgium and Switzerland remain with their cities for VP, money and Manpower (and construction slots). Please compare yourself and tell me how this comprises a reduction of map resources...

    After further analyzing the late game on the 26 map we again in line with the stats noticed and oversupply of resources for the remaining players. Now this varies of course by player, nation, luck, behavior etc. But there is a clear abundance which we can see in our statistics of older games. Thus we decided to shift and/or delete some of the resources on the 26 map to balance according to our analysis.

    Our intention with the balancing is clear: we want to stimulate player vs player combat (that's what the game is about) and not week-long turtle gaming and AI camping. Additionally we cannot allow a cornucopia of resources for the remaining players, as there will always be a winner and loser in a regional fight - with the winner taking it all and the loser leaving. It has to remain balanced. The only way of achieving this without A) creating crazy split/unrealistic nations ala COW, or replacing the AI countries with player nations (which we will be doing in our next 100+ map currently in development) was to reduce the importance of the existing AI nations.

    Lastly, should we find that our statistics are lying (or rather, we are not reading them correctly) then we will adjust the stats again. And again. I know you are not used to this from COW, but this is how MMO's usually work. Look at LoL or any other online game and you will find that the best Hero Char doesn't always remain the Hero Char. He gets nerfed and then buffed and finally finds his place. But this takes time. We are in beta. Not without reason as you can see.

    And now, should you still be reading this shows you are exactly the person i am looking for: a last really important request - because no statistic can actually report player fun and frustration: I would really love to receive reports from the experienced (and critical) guys concerning your personal experience with frustrating moments in the game. And I don't mean bugs but rather situations early/mid/late where you had the feeling you were stuck or artificially throttled, starved of resources etc. Even how you play with your gold and what motivates you to spend. I know this is a sensitive issue but many players play with "some" gold and that keeps us in the job. Please send them to me per IM - cause the more info the better. By comparing your experience with your profile and the game should allow us to get a better idea of the elasticity with which we can operate.

    Thanks for the assist and please don't give up on this great game.

    //G

    "Going to war without France is like going hunting without an accordion." Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf
  • Do not remove the update that prevents you from donating resources. It's the first game I know of that has a fair anti-cheat system. I will play knowing that my opponent is playing fair. I could only rearrange the air defense system that got a little annoying, but stopping giving free resources was the best upgrade I've seen in games of this type, real justice. I only believe players who like to receive features from other accounts that will be worried about this update, because now I am difficult for them. Only players who live free resources from other accounts are upset. In the end ended the scheme of easy children life, now the game is fair..
  • The Guardia Bra wrote:

    Do not remove the update that prevents you from donating resources. It's the first game I know of that has a fair anti-cheat system. I will play knowing that my opponent is playing fair. I could only rearrange the air defense system that got a little annoying, but stopping giving free resources was the best upgrade I've seen in games of this type, real justice. I only believe players who like to receive features from other accounts that will be worried about this update, because now I am difficult for them. Only players who live free resources from other accounts are upset. In the end ended the scheme of easy children life, now the game is fair..
    Do not say silly things.

    If a player wants to exchange resources using multi accounts.

    It can use the market itself to do this, or placing offers at high prices or at low prices and with the other account accepting in the market itself.
  • Samuel PM wrote:

    The Guardia Bra wrote:

    Do not remove the update that prevents you from donating resources. It's the first game I know of that has a fair anti-cheat system. I will play knowing that my opponent is playing fair. I could only rearrange the air defense system that got a little annoying, but stopping giving free resources was the best upgrade I've seen in games of this type, real justice. I only believe players who like to receive features from other accounts that will be worried about this update, because now I am difficult for them. Only players who live free resources from other accounts are upset. In the end ended the scheme of easy children life, now the game is fair..
    Do not say silly things.
    If a player wants to exchange resources using multi accounts.

    It can use the market itself to do this, or placing offers at high prices or at low prices and with the other account accepting in the market itself.
    You may already understand that you were one of those players who lived to receive resources from various accounts. It is evident that you are concerned about receiving funds from alleged friends who are actually just another of your multiple accounts. Hahaha samuel I want to see you play well now without receiving resources from the suspected friends lol
  • The Guardia Bra wrote:

    Samuel PM wrote:

    The Guardia Bra wrote:

    Do not remove the update that prevents you from donating resources. It's the first game I know of that has a fair anti-cheat system. I will play knowing that my opponent is playing fair. I could only rearrange the air defense system that got a little annoying, but stopping giving free resources was the best upgrade I've seen in games of this type, real justice. I only believe players who like to receive features from other accounts that will be worried about this update, because now I am difficult for them. Only players who live free resources from other accounts are upset. In the end ended the scheme of easy children life, now the game is fair..
    Do not say silly things.If a player wants to exchange resources using multi accounts.

    It can use the market itself to do this, or placing offers at high prices or at low prices and with the other account accepting in the market itself.
    You may already understand that you were one of those players who lived to receive resources from various accounts. It is evident that you are concerned about receiving funds from alleged friends who are actually just another of your multiple accounts. Hahaha samuel I want to see you play well now without receiving resources from the suspected friends lol
    Accusing me of using multi accounts ???

    I hope @Germanico sees this.

    What is more interesting, is that you do not have an account in the game with the same name, is using a false name to cause intrigue !!!
  • What about the number of rounds I'm playing? Of course you have many points why you like to cheat so it's easy. Now what logic do I have to be a multiple account and defend the new update? You're a madman who's angry because the easy life is over. And tell me expect to see what it is forbidden to accuse you of cheating? It's fair I tell you that you cheat on this by complaining a lot about this update and the only thing to think of you is that you will not have more thanksgiving and now it's crying hahahahahaha.

    I think you should be more humble and play without cheating. Your anger proves that you were one of those players who used cheating

    Samuel PM wrote:

    The Guardia Bra wrote:

    Samuel PM wrote:

    The Guardia Bra wrote:

    Do not remove the update that prevents you from donating resources. It's the first game I know of that has a fair anti-cheat system. I will play knowing that my opponent is playing fair. I could only rearrange the air defense system that got a little annoying, but stopping giving free resources was the best upgrade I've seen in games of this type, real justice. I only believe players who like to receive features from other accounts that will be worried about this update, because now I am difficult for them. Only players who live free resources from other accounts are upset. In the end ended the scheme of easy children life, now the game is fair..
    Do not say silly things.If a player wants to exchange resources using multi accounts.
    It can use the market itself to do this, or placing offers at high prices or at low prices and with the other account accepting in the market itself.
    You may already understand that you were one of those players who lived to receive resources from various accounts. It is evident that you are concerned about receiving funds from alleged friends who are actually just another of your multiple accounts. Hahaha samuel I want to see you play well now without receiving resources from the suspected friends lol
    Accusing me of using multi accounts ???
    I hope @Germanico sees this.

    What is more interesting, is that you do not have an account in the game with the same name, is using a false name to cause intrigue !!!
  • Samuel's points are all against the computer. That's it. It is not a fact that the game updated and removed this system to give resources for free. That must be why they should have had a lot of trouble with that. Now I play every day, I lost count of how many games I started playing and when I saw my enemies had resources for free. Now I've found a fair game that kept the cheaters from having an easy life. I apologize if I offended you more is my opinion, because only players who were earning resources for free who are bothering with the new update. Answer me can you play without earning resources for free? Lol. The funniest thing is that you admitted using multiple accounts, have already accused an active player of being multiplying why you are addicted to doing it lol.
  • Edit (by the author) : Giving instructions on process spreads knowledge of the how-to.
    Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Opulon: Even ironically, explaining how to cheat doesn't help. ().

  • Taking away NPC resources reduces the value of attacking NPC countries, this makes the valid tactic of racing to take as many small nations as possible before taking on the "big guys" less effective. Forcing the PvP element of the game will make people quit sooner as you must knock someone out to gain resources.

    Changing the tech tree to try and make players research a wider variety of tech is just pointless. I don't and wont use choppers much. I don't use a lot of troop types to be honest and that makes my research choices individualistic in nature. I you force us to research stuff we don't want we all end up with the same units. *YAWN*

    Reducing the amount of resources on the 26 player map creates a clear resource squeeze aimed at "balancing" your business model, not the game. Taking away the ability to trade Rare Mats does the same, you're attempting to make us spend money. I only spend money on things I really enjoy, and this update will make me far less likely to reward you for your efforts. I also appreciate honesty, so if you guys put up a post in the forums saying something like "Hey guys, our game isn't growing fast enough to keep us all in jobs, if you like it maybe you could help us out with your wallets" I would be much more receptive than with this tactic.
  • Opulon wrote:

    You have uncovered me. I am indeed a cheater. Usually, i go with 50 multiaccounts per game in order to maximise outputs. However, i would suggest one that wants to cheat, to join the moderation. Corruption is so much better to help you on your games, while "push" is sooooo primitive and unefficient.

    However, i think i can voice all the cheaters in here by saying that disabling trading system is a little pain, but there are easy workaround. With my multi accounts, i still can give me resources with no problems at all. Do i want supply ?

    First i sell 20 000 supplies at 3 each. 60 000 $ transferred
    Then i re-sell 2 000 supplies (from the other account) at 30 each. 60 000 $ transferred.

    BAM. Got 18 000 suppliers for free. Of course, i needed to use my mouse six times instead of 4 with diplomacy trade, but you know what ? It may be hard, but i think i'll survive.And i bask in joy thinking that from now you will restrain from making mods hunting me because you have suspicions ( ---> "Now I've found a fair game that kept the cheaters from having an easy life"). Thank you, sir.

    As for the rare materials, it's indeed more hard to overcome for us gentleman cheaters, with a refined sense of how to get free advantages on other players.
    But fear not, for we are the crawlers.

    The main advantage of a multi account is that it produces 100%. And in research, i fancy each one of my account to have a dedicated research line. One will spam planes/missiles, as with the ally status i can use shared airports without needing any trade, one will spam infantry and tanks, in order to kamikaze you, and i may fancy a buffer state account.

    The best thing about this update is that we cheaters will just take a little more time to get what we want, but non-cheaters (which we call "soon to be dead idiots") will, they, struggle to get help or assistance from their legit ally. After all, using market to generate free resources is unjust, and so, they will not use it.

    (Of course, this is ironic to the deepest level. But if you have played any online game for a long time, and Stillfront games make no exception, you know that even tic-tac-toe can be cheated)
    Exactly!
  • I think this is getting way out of hand. Posting concrete instructions on how to cheat the system (even if not meant seriously) is not acceptable.
    Please be advised that we are currently looking into how to prevent the extremely unfair methods we are seeing emerging from some of the players.

    Also note, that in no way are we generally blaming all players helping each other in friendship and alliances in the games - but we can see that it is clearly and noticeably being abused by some: very much to the detriment of honest players, roleplayers, paying players and other folks whose interests are very much central to us.

    By bashing players who are asking or rather demanding fair play you are (hopefully unintentionally) allying yourself with the few who abuse the system.

    //G
    "Going to war without France is like going hunting without an accordion." Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf
  • Germanico wrote:

    I think this is getting way out of hand. Posting concrete instructions on how to cheat the system (even if not meant seriously) is not acceptable.
    Please be advised that we are currently looking into how to prevent the extremely unfair methods we are seeing emerging from some of the players.

    Also note, that in no way are we generally blaming all players helping each other in friendship and alliances in the games - but we can see that it is clearly and noticeably being abused by some: very much to the detriment of honest players, roleplayers, paying players and other folks whose interests are very much central to us.

    By bashing players who are asking or rather demanding fair play you are (hopefully unintentionally) allying yourself with the few who abuse the system.

    //G
    The problem is that with this update, you're hurting all Honest Players!

    It is simple to solve these abuses by multi accounts, just ban the game, if you are suspected of receiving numerous amounts of resources, suspend the account.

    But do not harm the vast majority of honest players.
  • Im surprised you cant trace pushing and multi-accounts players.Im not sure if this will work as different nations have different resource incomes,the country that produces the most rare material will win as they will be able to research the most and do the most upgrades to their cities.

    Will see if this works,if it doesnt will find a new game to play.

    PS if players are multi accounting wont they just gift cities for provinces and by pass this ?
  • Germanico wrote:

    I think this is getting way out of hand. Posting concrete instructions on how to cheat the system (even if not meant seriously) is not acceptable.
    Please be advised that we are currently looking into how to prevent the extremely unfair methods we are seeing emerging from some of the players.

    Also note, that in no way are we generally blaming all players helping each other in friendship and alliances in the games - but we can see that it is clearly and noticeably being abused by some: very much to the detriment of honest players, roleplayers, paying players and other folks whose interests are very much central to us.

    By bashing players who are asking or rather demanding fair play you are (hopefully unintentionally) allying yourself with the few who abuse the system.

    //G
    You're right, sorry. Edited my post. Was intended as a sarcasm against a very simplistic perception of the problem, and not really as an argumentation . I know that since yesterday you are under storm from all of us, but i don't think any of us think that you are blaming, or wanting to reduce interactions between players (no gain from it anyway). Remains, though, that the trade suppression is actually going full chemotherapy against the cancer. We agree with the underlying objective, the vector is debatable :D
    Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
  • removing rare materials and not being able to build up to attack larger players means the super powers should win and if your not china russia or USA you might as well go home.

    The best game I have played so far was india,I only attacked 2 live players and the other 4 had a great game up till I won.No one cheated we all had a good game taking out AI nations.

    Those playing will know who is cheating and you should be able to see if someone has been taking advantage of the system and ban them
  • You might have to reduce the cost of some research and builds,might be wrong but Im betting everyone is going to bottle neck and quit.Many players dont want to fight big countries from the start,I prefer to attack AI nations and chat to my live players.

    The end results is not the game,it is how you get there.

    Im sure you know what your doing.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by jadeknight666 ().