Rogue States - A Neat Idea

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    • Rogue States - A Neat Idea

      A few friends and I were having a discussion on the nature of Rogue States and thought of something that we think would be really cool and add an extra dynamic to the game - Rogue Countries.

      We know that the system of Rogue States is already in the game, where the insurgency can knock out a city or province if morale gets too low. So, why not implement something on a larger scale?

      The idea behind it is such - If your global morale drops below a certain threshold, or global popularity below a certain point (say the 25-35% mark to be consistent with standard rogue states), then there is a small probability that not just a city, but an entire section of your country can go rogue, with its own unique country setup.

      As for buildings, i'd say they can have access to most, but initially they would only use Army Bases for troop construction and air bases that exist (but not able to build them obviously) but can't build new ones (but can repair those that exist, as well as upgrade). Obviously they wouldn't be able to use harbors if the idea of then having access to ships really does turn out to be too unrealistic.

      Still, if that turns out to be too much work, just giving them the ability to use what already exists when they take over i'm sure would be sufficient :)

      Now, i'm not sure the work that would need to go into something like this and nothing elaborate (they are just a terrorist state after all) but it could include it's own tech tree that they could use to fight and defend their nation. Nothing elaborate, but maybe 1 or 2 unique units specific to them that they could use.

      Some of the ideas, in addition to the standard infantry unit they use would be like:-

      Infantry - Standard rogue unit + an additional Anti armor infantry division (kind of like RPG armed division or whatever)

      Tanks - 2 new units, say same idea with an Anti-infantry (like say a buggy or 4WD type vehicle) and anti armor makeshift tank unit (being cannibalized from the people they rebelled against)

      I would welcome suggestions on the idea of aircraft or ships, but i'd say that it's not very realistic that they would use such weapons, although missiles and even in some cases WMD's would make sense.

      Let me know what you guys thing. I personally think it would be great, as it would definitely make people think twice about rushing through countries or bombing with WMD's excessively without considering the rammifications of their actions. By using this, or something similar, it can both be a cool feature and a way to mitigate the overuse of large weapons, while making players much more conscious of the morale of their country :)
    • I like your idea, but i think that the condition you imagine them to appear are too "low" in your first draft to allow them to be seen more than once in a lifetime :D

      Why not something related to already revolted cities ? instead of popping one insurgent each day... Each day a insurgent city is let to itself, it has a chance of converting (or annexing) neighbouring provinces, and turn into the rogue state you describe
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • Well, it was a first draft of the idea, so i'm sure I missed a few details :)

      Yeah, I like that as an added component, as it would increase the chance they would pop up beyond the once in a lifetime :D

      I did also include the Global Popularity thing as a trigger, mainly due to that reason as i've never actually seen a full country with that kind of morale, unless its been blockaded for days by another.

      I'm not sure if the mechanism isn't working or what, but usually when you use weapons like nukes, ICBM's etc, you'll loose a sizable chunk of your global popularity (somewhere like 10% per nuke, or that was pretty close to what it was). Recently, for some reason or another, this is not happening, but it would only takes a handful of big weapons to drop it to within the 25-35% parameters I descried earlier.

      Still, I like the idea of adding it to existing insurgency situations, as that would certainly make lots of sense and allow them to be more dynamic. So, rather than just being a stack of annoying infantry, it would actually be a threat you can't afford to ignore and would be more cautious in creating :)
    • Deeply agree on that. ISIS-emergent mechanics, especially with an agressive AI or player that rush too quick, would be interesting, equally for PvP and RP ^^
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • Opulon wrote:

      I like your idea, but i think that the condition you imagine them to appear are too "low" in your first draft to allow them to be seen more than once in a lifetime :D

      Why not something related to already revolted cities ? instead of popping one insurgent each day... Each day a insurgent city is let to itself, it has a chance of converting (or annexing) neighbouring provinces, and turn into the rogue state you describe
      I like the idea as well and the branch out from cities would fitting instead of these 15-20 insurgent stacks I encountered last game.

      Not sure of the global pop thing, Last game my global pop dropped to 3% and 7 nations declared war with 3 invading and 35 trade embargoes. I did not nuke anyone. Ungrateful bastages.

      This game. I got two rogue provinces as I only had 1 airborne unit hopping in Chile. Peru I had three rogue provinces even though the chance was 3% as both airborne units were divisions now (3bn). I had one city in Peru attempt to go rogue which was at 20% I believe. It was occupied by one of my IDs. Which is the only thing kind of irksome. 3 bn's of inf = 45 hps but 1 insurgent = 30 hp. I am chalking that up to the concept of them being difficult to root out due to being irregulars as it can be hard to distinguish them between civilians.

      As far as ships go we do have Somalian Pirates? So I can see that happening. Maybe corvettes at most.
      Ain't Nothing But A Thing!
    • DevinMacGregor wrote:

      As far as ships go we do have Somalian Pirates? So I can see that happening. Maybe corvettes at most.
      Yeah, I was thinking that. Of course, it would only apply in coastal areas, but it's definitely an idea.


      The global population trigger would cease to be a problem if it was instead incorporated into the standard rogue insurgent system, which would instead function as the way the rogue nations would form.

      Essentially, I would be a city as the center, with maybe/maybe not surrounding provinces turned to rogue, which the city will then start producing rogue nation units as I described above, effectively becoming a AI country, just like any other.

      I can understand the point with global popularity causing maybe more problems with this, so if the idea ever takes off, we would hope that either another solution or the adaption to the current rogues would fix that issue :)
    • 3% chance of going rogue happened twice in the same territory. Damn, indios out in the jungles of Peru. Pebas. My gunship wing just laid into them. They have 2 hp left. Argentine 11th Air Cav Div is in route to claim it for the third time. We are going to have to bring more chocolate bars this time to win the hearts and minds. We may have to stay there a week till they turn blue this time.

      Peru actually declared a ceasefire before I liberated her last city which was her capital and the remaining provinces.

      Ok, well I am not waiting. The 11th is 47 min out and the birds will be refueled in less than 6 minutes. Plus they are stationed in Iquitos currently so will be there before the 11th arrives.

      Better run through the jungle!!!
      Ain't Nothing But A Thing!
    • Jamhougin wrote:

      With the way population in a city is currently affected by rogues, It might be possible to win a game by allowing a rogue nation to spread and taking advantage of the Global VP decrease.
      It's definitely possible, at least for any of the countries not affected by the rogue states.

      However, if you are the country that gets affected by it and they spread, you're running the risk of being stalled quite heavily, if not having your offensive completely wiped out, by the rogue nation if it spawns on the leading edge of an attack.

      That's kind of why I think it would be a very interesting idea, as something like this would definitely make people think twice about rampaging through a country without thinking, especially in the case of taking a large one, without adequate consideration of the potential threats that may emerge from it.

      It's also a common mechanic of war, where i'm sure you could appreciate the idea that the local population would be quite adverse to being invaded by a foreign power, choosing to rise up and fight :)

      Dr. Leipreachan wrote:

      Dr. Leipreachan wrote:

      A rogue growing into a terrorist state I actually like this idea. The AI is already mean and I like rogues this could be fun 8o

      Glad you approve mate. Could be a little bit of fun :D
    • Just speaking for the American Tree and specifically the US Army but this is what Special Forces, ie US Army Green Berets were created for, unconventional warfare. They were initially designed to be deployed say in Warsaw Pact countries to create resistant forces to overthrow local regions etc. Vietnam happened and early 60s they were deployed there for roughly the same thing but counterinsurgency etc as well. US Army Rangers btw are not SpecFor but elite Airborne even though they are part of SpecOps Command.

      Just a thought but it might give the SpecFor an actual purpose although the current Intel system takes some of their functions away. Rogues current are unfriendly to everyone.
      Ain't Nothing But A Thing!
    • Just to add a twist to the idea of enlarging the role of rogues. I like the idea that a city going rogue and spreading to surrounding provinces. I have another little option though. What if when your own cities, or annexed cities go rogue they do this, but if it is a conquered and not yet annexed city goes into uprising, it reverts back to the original ownership. This would have the effect of encouraging people to occupy a city and not just bull rush through to capture the whole country in a day, but not annex any of the cities. I have often seen the tactic where a player will not care if cities go rogue as he will put them down later, but is rushing to take every city as quickly as troops can move to eliminate a player.

      I know it is a game and not a sim, but it just seems unrealistic to leave your supply lines so at risk as you move your entire nations military through an enemy country.
      ----------------------

      Jacopo: Why not just kill them? I'll do it! I'll run up to Paris - bam, bam, bam, bam. I'm back before week's end. We spend the treasure. How is this a bad plan?

      Remember that no one ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb idiot die for his country.
    • I can see occupied cities reverting back. It is just occupied and not annexed. Annexed would be getting with local leaders and setting up a new local govt etc. Occupation means no civilian govt but martial law. It would be your military patrolling the streets. So if you move on and leave it with no military then local leaders of the old govt may reassert their power and get the people to rise up thus a rebirth of that old nation.

      When I went into Europe there were a lot of rogue cities. When I start a campaign I will roll past cities with initial forces to take as much terrain as possible but I have forces all designed to take a specific city and occupy it till it is annexed.
      Ain't Nothing But A Thing!
    • The idea sounds really good, but what if you look at it from the view of a new player? The idea is very nice to keep the current player base that already understands the game, but new players might have trouble with it. I am a new player myself, and while I am a veteran of Call of War, I still find these uprisings troublesome due to the hp of the insurgents.

      So what if it was an option/gold option only for certain matches? That way it won't scare off new players as being too "hard" for a "browser game".



      A man finds an old lamp and rubs it. Out comes a genie that says, “Thank you for freeing me. Would you like to be a Hero of the Soviet Union?”
      The man says yes, and poof! He then finds himself in Stalingrad in 1942, facing five tanks alone and armed with only three grenades.
    • They could also lower the hp of the insurgents. I just started playing in March I believe. Insurgents are a pain for me. I had 4 cities and 2 provinces go rogue in one country and all cities occupied by a division. Last game I had to clear out cities who had been rogue for months. 15+ insurgents. This is my second active game.
      Ain't Nothing But A Thing!
    • okay... wow you took an idea I had in the back of my mind and blew it wide open! this is great! your stuff looks good and makes a lot of sense, especially the spreading idea! I think this one might be worth a trip to devs desk for review...
      also one small point: can we Please have the rouges get them self a darn name? like the Rogue State of New York... or like New Denver? that would be srsly cool.
      As always just my 2 cents

      Use Helicopters, Special forces or Stealth. Use your head to play - not the missile button. - Germanico

      These terrorists aren't trying to kill us because we offended them. They attack us because they want to impose their view of the world on as many people as they can, and America is standing in their way. - Marco Rubio
    • Tom Raines wrote:

      also one small point: can we Please have the rouges get them self a darn name? like the Rogue State of New York... or like New Denver? that would be srsly cool.
      That's a helpful one, I would want to know which area is uprising. It's like ISIS being the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.



      A man finds an old lamp and rubs it. Out comes a genie that says, “Thank you for freeing me. Would you like to be a Hero of the Soviet Union?”
      The man says yes, and poof! He then finds himself in Stalingrad in 1942, facing five tanks alone and armed with only three grenades.
    • Yeah some random name if possible and maybe country/region specific. Moms Who Really Hate Violence But Are Not Afraid To Take Off A Shoe If Need Be. Ok maybe not that one as it is way too long.

      Westboro Baptist.
      Sons of Liberty.
      Scientology.
      Doctors without Borders. *Maybe they are just really pissed off at the lack of healthcare and gone off the deep end.

      Names based on the city of uprising as previously stated is a go as well. Great idea.
      Ain't Nothing But A Thing!