Carrier plane capacity

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    • Carrier plane capacity

      Why do carriers have such limited capacity?

      I'm just for the first time, and capacity is just one wing of five.

      A Kittyhawk Class Carrier (which I am working with) has a capacity of 90 aircraft way in excess of the one wing we are looking at with our 5 as hey don't perform anywhere near what wwhey are suposed to be (i,e, 5 squadrons=approx 100 aircraft)

      Also, if you wnt o make real use of your planes,, you are restricted one to a single type, where carriers always carry ADF, Strike,, ASW and AWACS each in workable numbers.- That is uterly impossible in any meaningful sense when one is limited to a wing of only 5 in this game: As it is impossible to defend, carry out ASW duties and strike functions from the same carrier, thus rendeirng them all but useless in real terms.

      To carry out a meaningful operation against a well protected target one would need perhaps 5 or more carriers to do so successfully.

      Seriously, Carriers need a rethink.
    • As you upgrade the carrier, you can station more aircraft aboard it- the different units allow you to station 5/7/10 squadrons aboard. I then checked Carrier Air Wing Seventeen (CVW-17) on Wikipedia, and found that they maintain a total of 8 squadrons, plus a detachment of a ninth, aboard. 4 of them are strike fighter squadrons, 1 is Electronic Warfare (not modeled in the game), 1 is Airborne Early Warning & Control, and 2 are helicopter strike. The detachment is COD (not modeled in the game). You can maintain a proportional version of all of these units on a 5-squadron carrier. Most nations don't operate with 8 squadrons on 1 carrier, so having fewer than 8 spaces is arguably the more realistic situation.

      Regarding your allocation of aircraft, I'm curious as to how you're setting up your Task Forces. You should be able to handle most of the short-range ASW and air defense roles using appropriate escorts (and strategic placement of other surface and submarine assets will make the escorts' jobs much more manageable). This should enable you to devote most of your aircraft to 1 specific purpose, and to do very well at that purpose. If your goal is to invade a country from the sea or kill other naval formations, a carrier-based task force with appropriate aircraft and escorts can do a lot, but it can do so much more if it's assisted by land-based aircraft doing reconnaissance and overwhelming any air defenses. Most modern military actions involving the use of aircraft carriers (Operation Urgent Fury, First Gulf War, Second Gulf War, Falkland Islands War) support this. Missiles are also particularly helpful in naval combat- it's not clear to me how you're integrating them into your naval operations.

      In terms of the number of carriers required to execute an operation on a well-defended target, I think this may also be realistic- I believe Tom Clancy mentions in Red Storm Rising that 4 carriers operating in a single fleet were required for Strike Fleet Atlantic to successfully operate in the north Atlantic Ocean, near the USSR.

      @Admiral Gojira I've heard is a specialist in CoN naval warfare, and @tinydragon303 I know to be a good tactician. What do you think?
      "The enemy cannot push a button, if you disable his hand."
      Sergeant Zim, Terran Federation
    • I concur with @RasczakRough. If you only have one carrier you need to choose wisely what goes onto it and what will work best for your mission. If it's not going to be on the offensive I would put two air superiority, two strike fighters and an ASW chopper. If it is going to be attacking I would replace the chopper with a strike squadron. If you know your target has limited or no air capabilities I would even replace the air superiority with mission specific aircraft. To free up more slots for you carrier though, I would skip the ASW choppers altogether and put a couple destroyers in the task force. Even if I had AS on board I would certainly put a frigate or two in the fleet.

      Is there a particular operation you are gearing up for that brought this on? Maybe this wasn't helpful cause I didn't mention the correct scenario though :/ . Please let me know!
    • RasczakRough wrote:

      As you upgrade the carrier, you can station more aircraft aboard it- the different units allow you to station 5/7/10 squadrons aboard. I then checked Carrier Air Wing Seventeen (CVW-17) on Wikipedia, and found that they maintain a total of 8 squadrons, plus a detachment of a ninth, aboard. 4 of them are strike fighter squadrons, 1 is Electronic Warfare (not modeled in the game), 1 is Airborne Early Warning & Control, and 2 are helicopter strike. The detachment is COD (not modeled in the game). You can maintain a proportional version of all of these units on a 5-squadron carrier. Most nations don't operate with 8 squadrons on 1 carrier, so having fewer than 8 spaces is arguably the more realistic situation.

      Regarding your allocation of aircraft, I'm curious as to how you're setting up your Task Forces. You should be able to handle most of the short-range ASW and air defense roles using appropriate escorts (and strategic placement of other surface and submarine assets will make the escorts' jobs much more manageable). This should enable you to devote most of your aircraft to 1 specific purpose, and to do very well at that purpose. If your goal is to invade a country from the sea or kill other naval formations, a carrier-based task force with appropriate aircraft and escorts can do a lot, but it can do so much more if it's assisted by land-based aircraft doing reconnaissance and overwhelming any air defenses. Most modern military actions involving the use of aircraft carriers (Operation Urgent Fury, First Gulf War, Second Gulf War, Falkland Islands War) support this. Missiles are also particularly helpful in naval combat- it's not clear to me how you're integrating them into your naval operations.

      In terms of the number of carriers required to execute an operation on a well-defended target, I think this may also be realistic- I believe Tom Clancy mentions in Red Storm Rising that 4 carriers operating in a single fleet were required for Strike Fleet Atlantic to successfully operate in the north Atlantic Ocean, near the USSR.

      @Admiral Gojira I've heard is a specialist in CoN naval warfare, and @tinydragon303 I know to be a good tactician. What do you think?

      I'm not using carriers for short or even medium range naval ops. That is why they apear at this point to be an expensive way to haul around a stack of 5 aircraft which don't stand a chance on their own against the said well defended target. And, when away from the carrier leave it unrealistically vulnerble to air strike itself.

      ASW and ADF may well be manageable by support ships - but in tthe real world a carrier has its own primary striek and defence - as we al know, and the support ships do just that - not provide primary ADF,, ASW etc.
    • tinydragon303 wrote:

      I concur with @RasczakRough. If you only have one carrier you need to choose wisely what goes onto it and what will work best for your mission. If it's not going to be on the offensive I would put two air superiority, two strike fighters and an ASW chopper. If it is going to be attacking I would replace the chopper with a strike squadron. If you know your target has limited or no air capabilities I would even replace the air superiority with mission specific aircraft. To free up more slots for you carrier though, I would skip the ASW choppers altogether and put a couple destroyers in the task force. Even if I had AS on board I would certainly put a frigate or two in the fleet.

      Is there a particular operation you are gearing up for that brought this on? Maybe this wasn't helpful cause I didn't mention the correct scenario though :/ . Please let me know!
      Oh points taken. Just that gearing up for a major strike mssion very far from home territory on muliple targets similtaneously, I'm coming to realize how limited my options are with just three carriers of (what seems like) unnaturally modest capabilities.

      But it's not the immediatel prority, and I'm working on it :)

      Thanks for the comments :)
    • When you are blitzing. Also, he never mentioned they were heavily defended. If they are heavily defended then yeah it would be better to go one at a time. If you cut off their ability to produce everything in one blow he will have to have an amazing counterattack to recover with his now highly limited forces. It will also make him divide his attention to defend against multiple hostile attacks (especially air ones) and that could possibly make him panic and make mistakes.
    • When what aircraft I can bring to the invasion is limited to just 5-7 units I generally don't choose choppers except in special situations (like way too many SAMs/TDS). That's why I didn't recommend very many.

      Also I think I may have read your concern wrong. If that is the case, here is my answer to my other guess at what it was: Im aware that 1 fighter is equal to several, 1 infantry unit in game is equal to 1000 men.

      If you were talking to Anthony N, my apologies for answering where I wasn't supposed to.
    • tinydragon303 wrote:

      I concur with @RasczakRough. If you only have one carrier you need to choose wisely what goes onto it and what will work best for your mission. If it's not going to be on the offensive I would put two air superiority, two strike fighters and an ASW chopper. If it is going to be attacking I would replace the chopper with a strike squadron. If you know your target has limited or no air capabilities I would even replace the air superiority with mission specific aircraft. To free up more slots for you carrier though, I would skip the ASW choppers altogether and put a couple destroyers in the task force. Even if I had AS on board I would certainly put a frigate or two in the fleet.

      Is there a particular operation you are gearing up for that brought this on? Maybe this wasn't helpful cause I didn't mention the correct scenario though :/ . Please let me know!
      Tinydragon303 summed it all up right here.
      “It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather, we should thank God that such men lived.”



      George S. Patton Jr.
    • tinydragon303 wrote:

      When you are blitzing. Also, he never mentioned they were heavily defended. If they are heavily defended then yeah it would be better to go one at a time. If you cut off their ability to produce everything in one blow he will have to have an amazing counterattack to recover with his now highly limited forces. It will also make him divide his attention to defend against multiple hostile attacks (especially air ones) and that could possibly make him panic and make mistakes.

      Indeed.

      It is quite simply to stop the enemy in their tracks in one fell swoop; limiting their ability to strike back quickly and allowing us to land ground troops from the task forces with minimal losses.

      Thus, as you imply, taking out the bulk of their cities, especially denying them their oil production, their comeback wouldhave to be amazing.

      Also I don't believe in doing things by halves. If you can atttack by land, sea and air from N, S, E & W then do it. :)
    • I like to use carriers with Helicopters rather than jets. if i was invading a country on far off shores (and i had the time to amass a force this large) i'd use these 3 stacks
      - 1 carrier, 2 destroyers and 2 frigates with 5 attack Helo's and 5 gunships
      - 1 carrier, 2 destroyers and 2 frigates with 5 attack Helo's and 5 gunships
      - 1 carrier, 2 cruisers and 2 frigates with 5 ASW helo's and 5 air supremecy fighters

      I use the spies on the enemies coastal cities to see whats lingering around. Focus the attack on his strongest city and use missiles on his other coastal cities. I'll then leave one naval stack close to the first city to provide AA and move the other two to the next next city and so on so forth until I've captured 3 cities.

      Doing this i only need 1 Marine Unit and one Amphibious combat vehicle to capture and hold a city while i build an airbase so i can fly in any other units i need

      If anyone's got any recommendations id live to hear them!