Issue : Scarcity

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    • Issue : Scarcity

      I see a global problem in the game : scarcity
      There is always a problem of lake of ressources. Even with a big country, a big empire with multiple cities.
      Is it really the problem IRL ? I mean, ressources is a good point to make international business and to choose some strategic goal. But the global market is always, more or less, empty of at least 1 or 2 type of ressources.
      So, we have to make a really wise choice of what we do : research ? Building ? Armies ?
      Most of the time we have to avoid a lot of things : nuclear, aircraft carriers, or even different types of infantry. Most of buildings are way to expensive (pb of oil or supplies), we never build any bunker and hospitals are luxury. I tell to my folk to not build recruit centers beyond level1. And we have to concentrate on a very little number of troops : 1 type of infantry, maybe not tanks, no artillery etc.
      Have you ever heard of a military project cancelled because "sorry, we lake of gasoil to build this bunker" ?
      I mean, there is a "queue" option in construction. What for ? We always lake ressources to build even 1 building at a time.
      In a middle age simulator it would be ok, because it was a real problem in the past. But is it really the main problem in 2017 ?
      I don't think our choices should be guided by this main issue. Our production should not be 75% empty when a player is connected,just because he lake of ressource to do what he'd want to do.
      My solution : make the industry more efficient. Something like +50% at each level. That way, the progression of production will be slow and dependant of the player involvment, but worthy. The "colonies" will worth to develop. Actually I don't even build industry beyond level 2 because the payback is not worthing (except for rare and electronic). Also, a player who would choose to develop its "civil" production at the begining may have a big advantage at long term.
      Once the this issue solved we will play real modern tactics.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Kristovi ().

    • Dear Kristovi,

      I took the time to look into all your current running games and what I saw was a mixture of sub-par economical management, if you allow me to say so.
      In one case you had lost all cities producing Electronics (that's really bad), in another you didn't even have rudimentary level 1 Arms Industries in most of your Core/Homeland cities.
      Some longer running games showed you catching up, but clearly the economy is not your strongpoint: additionally I perceived low morale even in the homeland, further reducing your output.

      Now don't get me wrong: I am not criticizing you for playing a wargame aggressively - and I do think you are right to speak up, because we should allow players to play the game the way they want to...
      The trick is to balance this out with the requirements of the game economy while ensuring you have fun progressing.

      We are planning to change a lot in the economical gameplay in the next days/weeks so I hope you will have less issues in the future, once the updates are released.
      At least you can be sure that I am listening closely ;)

      "Going to war without France is like going hunting without an accordion." Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf
    • I think the economy is good. I like how few units are running around the map and I wish that they'd leave the 100% Effectiveness at only 5 units, not 10. Imagine a force of 10 Strike Fighters laying waste to your country. Dear goodness, help us... Leave the resource production at what it is. If you want more, build Airports, Docks, and Arms Production units. Modify the money a bit, you don't get much for how much you spend, but leave the other stuff alone.
    • If you play with only 1 or 2 types of units it's not really fun.
      I don't think playing agressivly. It's just that economy doesn't worth time and ressources. That's why I win so many games ! Just because I save time and ressources to spend them in few science and few buildings. But I'd like to spend more in civilian (sic) infrastructures. I'm a pacifist.
      And the more I play, the less I invest in economy like bunkers and industry or recruitment centers. My morale is too low ? Anyway, I gonna win (or loose) before my civil investments payback and grow up my morale.
      It's not the problem of me, just check the world market : scarcity.

      By increasing the industry output (and higher recruitment centers), you will drive people to invest in civilian buildings.
      Often, the first level is good : +100 for manpower and +25% for industry. It worth to invest (only in homeland industry). And I build a level 4 hospital (in just 1 city). But no bunkers. And now misiles are so expensive and nerfed that I use them much less than before (maybe not at all soon when my new tactic will be ready). But higher levels are a waste of ressources.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Kristovi ().

    • Not sure, at all. Because, actually that's the only way to do : spam cheap troops.
      You are limited in construction rack (and manpower), so, with more ressources you could build more sophisticated units and make the difference.
      With more ressources, you could build recruitment centres to increase your manpower, bunkers to stop invasions or simply develop your economy to prevail at long term.
      But if you choose development, now, you will loose under cheap troops invasion.

      I think it's just a pity to choose your tactic in relation to available ressources. That's not very 21st century spirit

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Kristovi ().

    • You guys indicate as the game is designed, and that is true. But there are "Gold" players that have 70% their force is 3 MRLS, 1 TDS with Stealth Fighters and Bombers flying over watch on them.
      "The first time you blow someone away is not an insignificant event. That said, there are some @$$holes in the world that just need to be shot." - Gen. James Mattis USMC
    • Strangely I see lots of players withall of these and they are paying zilch. Zero.
      Nonetheless, you cannot play our game the same way you play COW.
      This being said we are working hard on the New Economy Update... though it may be you will find it equally restricting cause it relies on more buildings, but lets see...
      "Going to war without France is like going hunting without an accordion." Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf
    • I see alot of players start out a game and immediately go invade someone, then run into a wall, then have a hard time building up because they didn't focus on their economy first!
      Now of course there is a balance to it, but I can see your point. Early on, it is very frustrating to get things going. as despite building up arms industries, i see my economic output as weak.
      You do have to be careful with not being in too many wars (lowers morale and output), and building up the economy to support and grow the forces on your battlefield.
    • As far as the price is concerned it well makes up for itself by producing many times as more resources than the city did when it didnt have arms industries. Like even though I have a massive amount of troops right now and am a very large nation my res are producing at 300-500+ per hour because I have medium to high arms industries everywhere
    • I do enjoy the scaling of the economy - it prevents some of the unrealistic monster armies that sometimes appeared in CoW. Now I get the real sense that the size of a military is directly supported by the strength of a nation - and it's a constant balance/struggle to put forward an army that can handle the rest of the world. That being said - not a huge fan of how much they have handcuffed trade. Not only does the AI not interact in the global market (market is nearly always empty), but now there is NO ability to bring resources into diplomacy or coalition cooperation. I think this is a sorely missed attribute that worked well in CoW. If there is a concern with cheating - i.e. players dumping units/resources into a single coffer - then perhaps limit it to a certain percentage a day, or do away with unit trading completely but not resource trading.

      The game should encourage teamwork and for players to work to their strengths - and trading away your most plentiful resource in exchange for your least plentiful should be a strategy. I hoping the banning of all trades except relations (that's not even really a trade) is a temporary fix for a longer term upgrade.

    • Market is not empty, you have oil and components. And rare mat after somedays.
      But the empty market is the proof of the scarcity situation. And growing maximum 50% of the native cities is not enough.
      One of the main reason is : the more you advance in time, the less you have "homeland cities", because more and more are annexed (from players or IA). So, even if you boost your homeland cities to +50%, meanwhile the world loose 75% of its production. And as long the best players are alive, the less they will sell precious ressources like electronics, rare and components. Why ? Because after multiple annexions, you will have a lot of manpower and money, so you will build troops at maximum output. Why would you sell anything ?
      And it happens very soon, like day 10 .
      You can force people to build civilian cities, it won't change anything to the situation. Because it's not a question of will, but a question of general scarcity.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Kristovi ().

    • I just want to ask; can you guys tone down the rare mats requirement to annex the city a bit?
      I think 2,5k is a bit too high. Maybe 2,3k?

      Yes, I get this update is meant to slow down the overly aggressive.... I mean, less peaceful players and make the players pay more attention to economy.
      Yes, I upgraded the rare provinces to boost up the rare production but even so, I feel like it's kind of high.
      Yes, I know we can't always fill up our research que everyday like CoW.
      Yes, I know this is just like the first few weeks of the game opening phase where the annex city cost was considered insane XD

      And yes, I like the new forum appearance :D