BEST OVERALL NAVY SHIP

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    • BEST OVERALL NAVY SHIP

      Which Navy ship would you choose? 18

      The result is only visible to the participants.

      So today I started thinking about the Navy in game.
      I usually like to have cruisers, destroyers and frigates.
      My most common fleet is composed of 1 Cruiser 2 Destroyers and 2 Frigates.
      However I started realizing that.. its a lot of research and too many resources, so the question

      If you have to pick 1, which Navy ship would you pick.

      I was personally thinking about the Frigate, apart from its lack of anti submarine warfare, I think overall its the best due mainly to its anti air defense. I encounter more airplanes and helicopters than submarines.

      Which Navy ship would you pick if you could only choose 1 and why?
    • Most definitely, and without (i think) many reasons against it : Frigate.

      Best multipurpoose by default ship you can dream of. Whatever the situation, the Frigate will at minimum be "average"
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • I chose destroyer because of its high defense capabilities against ships and subs, which can be devastating to a land force because of its missiles (especially BM sub). I do not commonly face air attacks on my fleets (which are usually 1 frigate, 2-3 destroyers and 1-2 cruisers). Even if I do, I usually have air superiority fighters on hand in a base nearby. I find this fleet good at defeating pesky sub attacks, as well as enemy fleets. And as I mentioned earlier, I somehow don't get air attacks on my fleets too often.
    • Destroyers for me are the best, at least in a map I play as West Germany, they are my second most powerful attack force in my game, they're the first naval unit I got and they are amazing, covered the whole nation of Italy with six of them and slowly, but, surely I destroyed which Italian soldier before advancing with ground troops to conquer all of it.
    • Last warrior wrote:

      if only 1 ship would be researchable: aircraftcarrier, as ultimative anti countries weapon, if armed. carrier can be armed with: a) ASF, b) strikers, c) gunships, d) atackhellis e) ASW and f) drones.
      And where the hell two other types of navy vehicles?
      I do agree with the fact that the aircraft carrier has massive power if you add all of the possible units you can load on it, but again that would mean you have to research them.
      Which is part of the point of choosing 1 navy ship, not having to research so many things.
      However, thanks for the vote and the feedback!
    • I love destroyers when playing a oceanic nation. When i play in closed waters, however, i don't research them or very late, because :

      1°) Subs will get into coastal waters and be severly nerfed (aka will be beaten by frigates and corvettes). Destroyer is mainly an anti-sub, so...


      2°) No defense against air/missile.

      2 AA fighters vs 1 Destroyer = 50/50 fight. Of course you don't attack a ship with AA, but it's to show the extreme vulnerability of the unit to that vector.

      And in terms of anti-missiles... a destroyer of late tech game can't handle even one early game missile.




      But in terms of general naval fight, i love them for a simple reason :
      HP per electronic

      Corvette in coastal water : 0,03 HP per electronic
      Frigate : 0,036 HP per electronic
      Destroyer : 0,043 HP per electronic
      Cruiser : 0,041 HP per electronic
      Aircraft carrier : 0,08 HP per electronic

      If you exclude Aircraft carrier, Destroyers are the ship that get the most HP for the less electronic cost. They so are the best choice for accompanying every single other ship.

      Cruisers are less "tanks", in terms of economic efficiency, of course, but this is only in early. In late the paradigm changes... and... well... the cruiser deals 20 damages at additionnal range :D
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • I know that they have their weaknesses, every ship does, but overall I would say subs. Now everyone just said "WHAT?!?!" hear me out.

      Subs have stealth so they can scout and unless there are patrol air, or dd's you wont' be seen, so you can get away from a fight before you are in it.
      with cm's they have anti shore capability.
      they only need a lvl 3 naval base and lvl 1 factory
      they are available early with no prereq
      with an 8 anti ship to start they are equal in damage to a dd
      if you research nuclear tech for them, they don't consume all your fuel like regular ships will do.
      They are IMMUNE to most air attacks. Unless they have naval patrol or asw helo you can't be hurt by them AT ALL

      Cheap to build, hard to fight against, cheap to research, launches cm's, and immune to standard air. Your enemy won't know you are there so when he launches his stacks of units in transports across water, you destroy them. They are stopped to "fight" but can't do anything. Unless he has dd's nearby, you are almost unbeatable as you do way more damage than a frigate or cruiser will do to you.

      Best of all? people never think about subs. They don't build asw or patrol air because "nobody builds subs". They build frigates to defend against air units, or cruisers because they are tougher and bigger than destroyers.

      if you wolf pack them a stack of 5 will take a destroyer down in one salvo. He never even knew you were there.

      So yeah. Subs are the navy overlords.
      ----------------------

      Jacopo: Why not just kill them? I'll do it! I'll run up to Paris - bam, bam, bam, bam. I'm back before week's end. We spend the treasure. How is this a bad plan?

      Remember that no one ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb idiot die for his country.
    • (I thougth Destroyers had sonars. Has it changed ?)

      "if you wolf pack them a stack of 5 will take a destroyer down in one salvo. He never even knew you were there."
      5 subs / 1 destroyer : 6250 electronics / 900 electronics ( 6.94 to 1) - 3 500 components / 2 500 components ( 1,4 to one) - 1 250 rare materials / 0 (no comparison) - 8 750 $ / 1950 $ ( 4.48 to one)

      I'm inclined to say that with such a difference of "economic price", it would be an outrage that the poor Destroyer isn't one-shot ^^ . 5 to one in contextual assault, i don't think there is a unit, even a hard counter, that win.

      5 MBT in assault of one TD, in city ? Sadly, our TD friend will be one shot :D
      5 strike fighters in assault of one TDS in city ? Same, sadly for him ^^


      On the operational field : it works, with the fitting context (let's not forget Destroyer is the hard counter to Sub. If Destroyer doesn't counter sub, then the Sub is either overpowered, or the Destroyer underpowered ^^)

      On the economic field : it implies... to accept a heavy choice. 1250 rare materials, day one, is roughly 25 hours of rare materials production. You can always spend gold for them, obviously. For non-paying users, it means "no 2nd research for an additionnal 24 hours". It's something to weigth carefully, and the destroyer will echo for many as a "cautious choice".


      In late, Sub is the infantry of the sea.


      Reason : No Fuel consumption.

      I have 450 units and struggle to keep my petrol output above 100/h. I still have 350/hours in electronics, and 500/h of rare material. So... Spamming the submarines (when i'll reach the 500 units, i'll have 50-60 of them), they will always be a nice support to the rest of the fleet. I do feel, however, that they have an efficiency gap between mid and late. You have all incentives of the universe to get to the 2nd version (with the nice 10-10 ship-sub), but why one would invest so much to get a 2nd CM capacity and 12-12 ? meh.

      In early, though, i wouldn't research them if i am a "sea nation". Same reasons than the Destroyer. ---> Sub has the worst HP ability of all the roster for reduced damages (basically, you pay 1 electronic per 0,01 HP, which is three time worse than the other worst unit, in this context). For Oceanic nations however they are often a day 2 research for me. They will more than ever now that we have a 3rd slot.

      I'm still to find a game where my ennemies DON'T think of the sub, however. One time i got a retarded Ukraine that decided his ambition was to become a dominant naval power (wtf. the guy never managed to exit the black sea without being hit&runned to death). Many people didn't encountered much subs, and i don't really understand why. Must really depend of the games. Same with cruisers. It seems that some people see them everywehre and other (like me) never ^^
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • Fair points, but I don't think you can reduce things to a ratio that simply. For example, I think in almost any game strike fighters are common. If naval strikes especially the DD will lose. Every unit has a hard counter, but if you look at how common the hard counter is it adjusts the value accordingly. Most games I am in, navy is usually an afterthought. players just don't seem to invest heavily in it whether from lack of priority in research, or lack of ability to do anything past the coast. It is a very rare thing to see naval patrol planes or asw helos. So the only unit that can find you and effectively hit you is the destroyer.

      So since the smart player will use stacking, which stack is more likely to encounter 5 DD's or 2 dd's 2 FF's and a corvette. I suspect the second. As DD's have pitiful anti air they need protection, and you will often see people build one or two corvettes to get some naval defence against invasion early. Now put 5 subs up against that stack. the 5 subs will win. and you can do the math on the resource costs, but i bet it is a wash.

      In your land based examples, 5 mbt's attacking two AT, 2 motor inf, and a rocket inf in a city for example the tanks will lose. 5 strikes vs 2 tds, 2 sam and 1 aa, strikes lose. There is not another unit that I know of that you can research one unit and be able to take down common stacks 7 out of 10 times.

      and the hp to elec cost is offset by the fact that in common practice, one unit can see it, and very few can touch it. DD's also have no defense against cm's. Sub can launch a cm against it and even a tier 1 will leave that dd easy prey for the sub, dd can't do that back to the sub. he has to slug it out. 40 hp. 8 damage to 20 hp 8 damage, all thing being equal, the best the dd can hope for is 50% damage. Not great for longevity. The sub can take out the DD without losing any hp.

      Infantry of the sea? no way. stealth strike fighter of the sea.
      ----------------------

      Jacopo: Why not just kill them? I'll do it! I'll run up to Paris - bam, bam, bam, bam. I'm back before week's end. We spend the treasure. How is this a bad plan?

      Remember that no one ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb idiot die for his country.
    • Those examples are indeed more fitted to an extensive reasoning of how to use the Submarine.

      Since 2009, i train youngs and beginner to wars and competition, in strategy games ---> if you say to them bluntly that "said" unit will crush this one other if you "do it that way", you run the risk that they do exactly that : repeating the pattern you proposed without a second thought, and without the reasoning and perception behind that leaded you to make this choice in the first place.

      For example, here, between your two posts, it goes from "with a stack of five you can wipe a destroyer one shot" to " So since the smart player will use stacking, which stack is more likely to encounter 5 DD's or 2 dd's 2 FF's and a corvette. I suspect the second. As DD's have pitiful anti air they need protection, and you will often see people build one or two corvettes to get some naval defence against invasion early. Now put 5 subs up against that stack. the 5 subs will win. and you can do the math on the resource costs, but i bet it is a wash.

      In your land based examples, 5 mbt's attacking two AT, 2 motor inf, and a rocket inf in a city for example the tanks will lose. 5 strikes vs 2 tds, 2 sam and 1 aa, strikes lose. There is not another unit that I know of that you can research one unit and be able to take down common stacks 7 out of 10 times."


      Which is more ... realist toward what you could encounter on the field, against an alive ennemy ---> and so, more useful as an insight to a primitive question like the one posted in this topic. I agree with your use of Subs, but i'm glad you precised more in depth "why and how" ^^. (i think there is only ONE other unit ---> The late Mobile anti-air infantry, that can in theory take on a stack of helicopter/airplanes mixes while remaining suprisingly efficient to this, by opposition to the SAM that becomes pretty much obsolete)

      Another example of that would be : if you consider that this is a corvette in oceanic water and that you don't hit&run, the average projected fight will goes like this.

      A (subs): 100 HP - 40 Ship damage
      B (ships) : 150 HP - 20 Submarine damage.

      Economically speaking, you can expect an "exhange" of this kind :

      Your tonnage sunk : 3750 elec, 2250 components, 750 rare material, 5250 $
      His tonnage sunk : 4 000 elec, 10 500 components, 8650 $

      The Subs win by a fair margin. 3 losses average (2 if lucky, 4 if unlucky). Was it worthy ? Hell yes. i would pay 750 rare material every day to destroy 7500 components to my ennemy. He will not recover that easily, especially if he needs to defend from an landing.

      Now, let's imagine you do not precise to the beginner "IT ONLY WORKS IN OCEAN".

      Do the same fight in coastal waters :

      A (subs) : 50 HP - 30 Ship damage
      B (ships) : 160 HP - 20 submarine damage.

      Suddenly, it doesn't work anymore. (This i saw live with one of my members ^^). And with the sub, i think the unit asks for ... a bit of subtility
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • That is a great analysis Opulon. You are a wizard with the numbers. I am glad i explained my thinking more, so you understood more of what i meant. I tend to think a,b,g. instead of going through all the steps.
      ----------------------

      Jacopo: Why not just kill them? I'll do it! I'll run up to Paris - bam, bam, bam, bam. I'm back before week's end. We spend the treasure. How is this a bad plan?

      Remember that no one ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb idiot die for his country.
    • wrong diskussion of naval warfare with economical points. Question was: "you can pick only one (i hope meant kind of ) ship (i hope to research and to build)"; Even truffa jailed about too many researches for mixed fleets:
      If he would spare on ships researches he could research air. Also all your diskussion is obsolet. Aircraftcarrier won... (especcially because sunbmarines weren't even to choice). Also for this failed poll you did unnecessary good guide of naval warfare. Too many honour for failed failed poll/question. And wrong placed. Asked were best overall ship on his abilities withou economical prices. Submarines weren't even included, and submarines would be at least TOP3, or even TOP2.

      Also: say me "bravo for lonely right answer" and change thread for your diskussion of naval warfare.

      Your diskussion would be nice for other thread.
    • Well if nothing else we had a lively discussion of the merits of subs vs destroyers, and the dev team got some feedback about what players think (or don't think as the case may be with subs) of their naval options.

      Of course, the best naval unit would be the LHD. Am I right? yeah I am.

      I know that G lies awake at night pondering and coding in his head how he can make them a reality. He is obsessed really. :thumbsup:
      ----------------------

      Jacopo: Why not just kill them? I'll do it! I'll run up to Paris - bam, bam, bam, bam. I'm back before week's end. We spend the treasure. How is this a bad plan?

      Remember that no one ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb idiot die for his country.