Problems with Cruise Missiles vs Frigates

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    • Problems with Cruise Missiles vs Frigates

      I sent 14 cruise missiles at 5 level 1 Frigates stacked and they shot ALL 14 of them down?? You need to fix that...that is a major glitch. Total waste of resources and this is very exploitable...basically you have a cruise missile proof protection bubble you can use.

      Please FIX

      The post was edited 2 times, last by moby1kanob ().

    • Hi moby1kanob,
      Do you realize that what happened is that you were sending a single cruise missile against a stack of 5 frigates fourteen times? Current mechanics do not allow for multiple missile stacks, so all is fine there - 5 Frigates can easily defend against a single missile. It's not really the greatest idea to use missile against anti-air units in the first place.
    • Gorczyk wrote:

      Hi moby1kanob,
      Do you realize that what happened is that you were sending a single cruise missile against a stack of 5 frigates fourteen times? Current mechanics do not allow for multiple missile stacks, so all is fine there - 5 Frigates can easily defend against a single missile. It's not really the greatest idea to use missile against anti-air units in the first place.
      I shot them all one after another literally 2 seconds apart, there is no way that 5 frigates in real life can shoot down 14 Cruise missiles coming in all at once, I did not shoot one then wait. I shot them stacked one after another. You are telling me that you think 5 frigates can shoot down 14 cruise missiles incoming all at once? I can understand each frigate being able to take one out but then not again 2 seconds later...shouldn't there at least be a 2 or 3 minute reset time before the frigate can defend against another cruise missile??? I am a Navy captain and this is impossible. Even If there were 5 frigates all equipped with Phalanx CIWS (seawiz) there is no way they are taking out 14 incoming missiles from different directions 2 seconds apart from each other...The mechanics of this are not correct. This would be more realistic if you put a 3 or 5 minute reset time before one frigate can defend against another cruise missile.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by moby1kanob ().

    • You were lucky to see how unbugged fregates should work. Most players see how bugged fregates lose vs single or two CM's. Be proud of it.
      EDIT P.S. : can you read descriptions: defencive damage vs missiles: it mean CM's on impact gain defencive damage of fregates, before they do own offencive damage. And like i said bugged fregates dont work whole time perfect deffer. I saw many times at least merged stacks of fregates + destroyers can be defeated by CM's.
      And RL is RL. I am not sure singe unit is single ship here.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Last warrior ().

    • true, but can we for sure say that one missile unit would be one missile in RL either, because Im not sure if one conventional cruise missile could kill an entire tank regiment, I personally like to think of it as a group of cruise missile launched in a salvo be say several ships or multiple planes in the squadron it makes more sense that way.
      If you make a man a fire he will be warm for a couple hours, now light a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
    • There seems to be a fine line between frigs shooting down everything or nothing when it comes to cruise missiles. Frigs are weak against airplanes , the trick to getting your CM in on frigs is , overstack your airstrike groups so no planes get shot down when you enter their defense radios , this starts the air defense timer and they cannot shoot again until the timer expires , that is when you split your group into small enough groups that you do not have a stacking penalty and launch your missiles and attack with planes.
    • Guys - it's very simple and I will gladly repeat it for you:

      Unit stacks add their values. Meaning if you stack 5 frigs you get a very strong AA unit with the downside of also having only one cooldown.

      This system is a legacy of all previous games - so what we need to do in this case is give it a point defense cooldown to solve this issue. Already noted for prio.

      //G
      "Going to war without France is like going hunting without an accordion." Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf
    • Point Defense cooldown will create the same exact problem than previous 1-hour cooldown problem.


      5 frigates with PD cooldown :

      1°) Sacrificing 1 heavy bomber to wreck their offensive round.
      2°) Closing in.
      3°) Send one conventional to soak up the PD
      4°) 1 nuke

      I was a huge user of this method (be it ground, naval, or even against artillery) to optimise approach phases and make ennemy units kill "what i wanted" before i retaliate, and it's a choice. I don't find the actual system to be inherently bad ---> point defense is systematical, and is very punitive to each careless run.

      Now, something true, is that while it works pretty well for aircrafts (frigate-speaking) i concur it's unjust for missiles as a whole ---> it's globally too easy for a group to get enough Point Defense to be totally impervious to Cruise missiles.

      In early, 2 frigates, if i do not say bullshit, are enough.

      What i would suggest is "no cooldown", but a substantially reduced point defense for the most quickest or support unit.

      Frigate ? 50% nerfed PD
      SAM : 20% nerfed PD
      Mobile anti-air : 33% nerfed PD

      They are the units that move around quickly and supprot other units with their PD. So, they are, i think, the main source of "rage" with players trying to overwhelm anti-missiles specialised units with missiles. They understand that their missiles are bad against them, but they somehow would like that "with enough missiles it works".

      The only thing to keep in check is that while it "works", it's unefficient. The presence of a PD cooldown, well, gets back to the early days of the game where missiles are by definition more cool than anti-missile, and anti-missile is unreliable.
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • Counter against this fix: Add more frigs to stack.

      The one and only real fix I discussed today with my tech director and we agreed to look into it for next year: killing the old stacking system, while retaining individual units in the stack - as that is what players expect and what we can balance. As long as we allow the stacking of units to also stack the damages etc we can doctor around but will never ever be able to really tackle the issue satisfactorily. Again, it is legacy come to haunt us.
      Lets see.

      Also please keep in mind that many of the reports coming in are generated from OLD games - games we are not touching any longer and which are known to be imbalanced. We deliberately changed the AA and missiles in one of the recent updates - so I would be most interested to see how they play out. That some of the old stuff is unbalanced, yeah ... it is known.

      Right now it seems there is no middle ground: Either AA is OP or AA is worthless. It has to do with the stacking and the mechanics behind it first and foremost.

      //G
      "Going to war without France is like going hunting without an accordion." Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf
    • Yeah, there may be that :D

      But when you need to do "big stacks", you focus a good amount of resources.

      In early, make a 7 frigates stack. Ok, you're impervious to CMs. But the early investment for that imply you're a sitting duck in many other areas.


      But i would contest your sentence on one point :

      AA isn't OP. Point Defense AA is OP.

      Offensive round work very well, and while they "deal their damage", you can overwhelm them in an organic and logic way
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • Germanico wrote:

      Guys - it's very simple and I will gladly repeat it for you:

      Unit stacks add their values. Meaning if you stack 5 frigs you get a very strong AA unit with the downside of also having only one cooldown.

      This system is a legacy of all previous games - so what we need to do in this case is give it a point defense cooldown to solve this issue. Already noted for prio.

      //G
      This would be a very interesting feature to see in the game.
      “It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather, we should thank God that such men lived.”



      George S. Patton Jr.