STRATEGIC BOMBERS UPDATE 290317

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    • Diabolical wrote:

      Even we "Rich Americans" can't send an AWACS to every single engagement when bombers need to go in and level a place with some precision. If we relied solely on AWACS or a ground-based RADAR for targeting, then our bomber fleet would be kinda impotent, don't you think?
      He's not suggesting that. Other unit's are used for reconnaissance such as ships, Naval Patrol aircraft and fighter's in game. In reality this is also complemented by Infantry reconnaissance, UAVs and Sate-little imaging.

      Bomber's can't perform search and destroy missions even if they are equipped with radar which is usually to detect enemy air defenses or as fire control for the launching of Cruise Missiles. It's not search and tracking radar. Heavy Bomber's are too vulnerable to be used tactically like strike aircraft. They are used to carry heavy standoff weapons such as cruise missiles. And when the airspace is controlled or protected by fighter escort's carpet or precision bombing. In some extreme cases Bombers can be used to perform low level bombing raids into protected air spaces. But Bomber's are entirely reliant on other units for target information. Oceanhawk was just pointing out this would make Awacs more useful.
    • Diabolical wrote:



      Oceanhawk wrote:

      Lord Aodhan wrote:

      Seele07 wrote:

      The normal heavy bomber have a radar, but the stealth bomber not.
      Both shouldn't really have radar. Heavy Bombers rely on targeting information from other aircraft and satellite reconnaissance. They shouldn't be able to scout out and destroy enemy ground units on their own like gunships and fighters can do. They should be like Stealth bombers, radar-less.
      Means they will need awacs or naval awacs. Cant ignore logistics :P Defo think this is a good idea.
      Um, no, AWACS is not for targeting by bombers, it's more for CAPCOM to maintain an overall view of the battlefield. While AWACS can transmit live data to units on scene (i.e., artillery or bombers), most aircraft DO have onboard RADAR systems with specialized targeting packages. Even we "Rich Americans" can't send an AWACS to every single engagement when bombers need to go in and level a place with some precision. If we relied solely on AWACS or a ground-based RADAR for targeting, then our bomber fleet would be kinda impotent, don't you think?

      Here's something to think about, though. AWACS can serve a very special ADDITIONAL function....via data interpolation methods (simulated) they should be able to start revealing RADAR contact details over time (i.e., after 2 hours on RADAR, an enemy unit becomes fully visible as opposed to being just a glowing blob).
      Then how are my bombers to find something to blow up? If you are suggesting not using AWACS. Im talking more in game atm, rather than RL scenario
      The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants
      - Thomas Jefferson

      Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
      - Milton Friedman

      Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.
      - Sun Tzu
    • Oceanhawk wrote:

      Then how are my bombers to find something to blow up?
      Bombers are meant to be used strategically against cities. That is their primary function in game their secondary function (which is probably used more) is cruise missile carriers. You don't need radar to bomb cities. And I rarely use the radar of my bombers to locate cruise missile targets. My cruise missiles are lobbed at targets well out of my bomber range, since other units have enemies to fire at once my bombers get moving. I don't even use AWACs (I probably should do) to find target for my bombers. The combination of ground, other air assets and warships helps light up the map with green and blue dots.

      My Stealth Bombers are just as effective as Heavy Bombers and they don't even use radar. If your entire air fleet compromises of just bombers I feel sorry for you when you encounter enemy SAMs and Fighter Jets because you won't have much of air force left. If you want units that can scan and kill ground targets that is the Job of strike fighters. At the moment Heavy Bombers with radar can do the same Job as strike fighters (albet not as well) In game mechanics this reduces the importance of Strike Fighters and Helicopter gunships in a search and destroy role of ground targets and providing close air support.

      Your bombers shouldn't need to find things to blow up, others units should find things for them, it doesn't have to be AWACs it could literally be any unit.
    • I tend to follow Lord Aodhan and his game-mechanical thoughts.
      Just because a unit has radar in RL it doesn't necessarily mean it uses it like our radar in game.
      From a balancing perspective I would say we can remove Radar from the Heavy Bomber simply because this makes the unit very strong and behave in a totally untypical fashion.

      As an example: B52's do not prowl the battlefield, hunting targets of opportunity. They are either ground/air coordinated or attacking a predefined target.
      "Going to war without France is like going hunting without an accordion." Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf
    • Lord Aodhan wrote:

      Oceanhawk wrote:

      Then how are my bombers to find something to blow up?
      Bombers are meant to be used strategically against cities. That is their primary function in game their secondary function (which is probably used more) is cruise missile carriers. You don't need radar to bomb cities. And I rarely use the radar of my bombers to locate cruise missile targets. My cruise missiles are lobbed at targets well out of my bomber range, since other units have enemies to fire at once my bombers get moving. I don't even use AWACs (I probably should do) to find target for my bombers. The combination of ground, other air assets and warships helps light up the map with green and blue dots.
      My Stealth Bombers are just as effective as Heavy Bombers and they don't even use radar. If your entire air fleet compromises of just bombers I feel sorry for you when you encounter enemy SAMs and Fighter Jets because you won't have much of air force left. If you want units that can scan and kill ground targets that is the Job of strike fighters. At the moment Heavy Bombers with radar can do the same Job as strike fighters (albet not as well) In game mechanics this reduces the importance of Strike Fighters and Helicopter gunships in a search and destroy role of ground targets and providing close air support.

      Your bombers shouldn't need to find things to blow up, others units should find things for them, it doesn't have to be AWACs it could literally be any unit.
      Read the rest of my post dude... I went on to say that bombers needed Force Multipliers like Awacs etc....

      Im agreeing with you.. bombers dont go hunting, they just kill
      The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants
      - Thomas Jefferson

      Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
      - Milton Friedman

      Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.
      - Sun Tzu
    • Germanico wrote:

      Let's simply remove them: Done. Will be updated on Wednesday.

      No more B52 scouting ;)
      so I was right - you are nerfing strategic (heavy or what the hell are they called in game) bombers. Great, but I have an idea - remove air units, leave only land units so noobs could not get any harm from air attacks or missiles delivered that way and as for normal players - give us more little cra_p to do before we can have fun (this case spotting). This games is starting to resemble supremacy 1914 with hours of time until something would happen in the battlefield.
    • Eternus wrote:

      so I was right - you are nerfing strategic (heavy or what the hell are they called in game) bombers. Great, but I have an idea - remove air units, leave only land units so noobs could not get any harm from air attacks or missiles delivered that way and as for normal players - give us more little cra_p to do before we can have fun (this case spotting). This games is starting to resemble supremacy 1914 with hours of time until something would happen in the battlefield.
      That could be a new game mode other than the Role Play or pure conquest. A game where Jet Aircraft, Aircraft Carriers, Heavies (Not Naval Patrol), Missiles, Theater Air Defense and BM Submarines are banned. The only combat air units allowed are helicopters. It will force everyone to use artillery, large ground forces and Surface Fleets. Seems like it could be a interesting Game. It will be a slower more attritious game of massive Tank Clashes and Huge Naval Battles.

      But banning them outright for everyone are you nuts? It's called Modern war for a reason Not World War 1 with more tanks , Cruisers and arty.
    • Tbh it rather sound as if we just nerfed your preferred strategy. We are actually increasing the Air Units in the game in the coming updates.

      And removing the Bomber's radar feature? We have units that do that job just fine. And the Bomber job is ... bombing.

      //G
      "Going to war without France is like going hunting without an accordion." Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf
    • Some of these suggestions are worrying... "remove air units" are you mad?


      Germanico please dont remove all air units

      The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants
      - Thomas Jefferson

      Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
      - Milton Friedman

      Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.
      - Sun Tzu
    • Yeah, well, you know, WAR... what is good for...?

      I think we should introduce the Hippy-Camp-Outpost sometime soon.
      Then we will do away with Aircraft - next with Tanks - and finally we will turn all Soldiers into Farmers.
      And then: You can grow crops in your provinces and expand your fields.

      Once that is done we are no longer Beta and ready to release on Mobile as Agriculture of Nations: Modern Farm

      :thumbsup:
      "Going to war without France is like going hunting without an accordion." Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf
    • In a weeks time we are planning to turn off air unit auto spotting over friendly terrain. meaning radar will become really important.

      Then helicopters (flying nap of earth below radar) and RCS will gain tremendously. Not to mention stealth - but that's getting better with the radar tomorrow.
      "Going to war without France is like going hunting without an accordion." Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf
    • Germanico wrote:

      Tbh it rather sound as if we just nerfed your preferred strategy. We are actually increasing the Air Units in the game in the coming updates.

      And removing the Bomber's radar feature? We have units that do that job just fine. And the Bomber job is ... bombing.

      //G
      Basing on what you have said earlier - it was strategy of most players.
      I will believe that when I see it. Still doubt that "bombers" will be buffed.
      Nevertheless bombers in general are being nerfed.
      At the end well, we will just need more bomber airplanes and more missiles (trying that and doing well). So in a long run it could not change much. Will see.

      Oceanhawk wrote:

      Germanico please dont remove all air units
      only bombers...

      PS
      in some areas helos will not do much more - their range is too small. Only stealth bombers, strikes are not worth to be build (at least those you could not nerf :/).
    • Eternus wrote:

      Germanico wrote:

      Tbh it rather sound as if we just nerfed your preferred strategy. We are actually increasing the Air Units in the game in the coming updates.

      And removing the Bomber's radar feature? We have units that do that job just fine. And the Bomber job is ... bombing.

      //G
      Basing on what you have said earlier - it was strategy of most players.I will believe that when I see it. Still doubt that "bombers" will be buffed.
      Nevertheless bombers in general are being nerfed.
      At the end well, we will just need more bomber airplanes and more missiles (trying that and doing well). So in a long run it could not change much. Will see.

      Oceanhawk wrote:

      Germanico please dont remove all air units
      only bombers...
      PS
      in some areas helos will not do much more - their range is too small. Only stealth bombers, strikes are not worth to be build (at least those you could not nerf :/).
      That is such a cr@p idea.... helis are good units, just people dont know how to use them. Simple as, cant blame the unit for the fact that the player doesnt know what he doing
      The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants
      - Thomas Jefferson

      Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
      - Milton Friedman

      Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.
      - Sun Tzu
    • Helicopters are suffering from a severe case of discoverability - once you use them and someone sees them they are toast (at least if that someone has Air-Sup).

      That's one reason why we are changing this. If you don't see it you can't shoot it...

      Just looking at the heli stats should ensure that they are used. If they have a chance of survival that is ;)

      //G
      "Going to war without France is like going hunting without an accordion." Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf
    • Well I'm starting to be afraid abut that changes of helos. What will spot them now? Helos are ok, simply noobs don't help them with air cover. The same about missiles, people don't build AM units. Main reason people don't build them is infrastructure needed for that. So at the end they complain abut missiles and strikes that are far easier to obtain, effect? The nerf to strikes and missiles. Perhaps devs should make some guide to new players rather than nerf what does not need to be nerfed :P
    • @Eternus - I'm not sure how I feel about you balancing ideas, but I think it'd be a great idea to have an outside-of-the-game (PDF?) guide, explaining basic tactics, and which units are effective in combat against and in detecting other units.
      @Germanico is that part of the developers' plans?
      "The enemy cannot push a button, if you disable his hand."
      Sergeant Zim, Terran Federation