2 level 1 CRV's take out 5 aircraft in one battle, how is that even possible?

MallahanJr · Jun 9th 2018, 7:39pm

uid=4720934&gameID=2372342

2 Level x CRV's in Tel Aviv with 0% Defense bonus, completely destroy 2 level 1 Air Sup Fighters and 3 level 1 Strike fighters in one stack. 2 CRV's with a 1.0 defense rating each for a total 2.0, 2 air sup 1.5 vs armor or 3.0 and 3 strike fighters 4.0 vs armor or 12.0 for a total of 2.0 defense vs 16.0. No anti air possible (flew over my territory, no frigates in the Med outside of tel aviv, nothing shown in paper about AA units being destroyed.) I need one of Opulon's eloquent explanations on how this is possible.Screenshot.png

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Germanico · Jun 9th 2018, 10:48pm

Hi Mallahan,

thanks for your report - I took the time to check this myself. Now I know you to be a huge supporter of our game and a very experienced player, that's why I am especially interested to get to the bottom of the issue:

Without wanting to give away enemy force composition - could it be that you did not fully reconnoiter the forces in Tel Aviv before giving the attack order? Matter of fact is that there was a "very large" force of ground units in place consisting of both infantry and armor. Possibly they were landing/disembarking? I looked into the opposing players log and it all tallies looking at it from my vantage point. The fighters engaged at least 2x (first at 14:50 and then again at 15:50) and killed the CRVs (as you already pointed out). I also see both Armor and Inf in Tel Aviv engaged in combat to a later point in time.

So what did it look like to you when you engaged? I really want to understand this so we can potentially identify any bugs or problems.

As CON does not have a "history" feature allowing me to go back in time I need your effort and good will to assist me... What did you see when? and how did the battle unfold from your point of view?

MallahanJr · Jun 10th 2018, 12:23am

I thought I reconnoitered well, but I didn't. I see 11 Motorized Infantry, a doom stack. Thanks for looking, because I thought I knew what was there, and learned my lesson. I saw single unidentified Armor, which made me send the the strike wing. Came back after going to the pool and I saw the 2 single infantry that I sent there approaching that were to arrive within 30 seconds of each other, die without exposing anything. After I sent a destroyer and an armored division consisting of 1 MBT 2 Inf 1 CRV and 1 Mot AA, then I saw that 11 Motorized infantry were there. Planes gave me ground contact radar, when they approached I only had unidentified armor, I don't know why the Infantry did not show up in that stack. I haven't built any Mobile Radar yet, because these 28 player games are so strapped for resources compared to the 64 player games (More x2 cities are necessary IMHO). I was so dismayed, because I thought I planned and recon'd right, that I dropped 3k gold to Locate All Enemy forces (because I wanted to see what kicked my ass and where I went wrong) but nothing showed up in Tel Aviv (but everywhere else they popped up). So this is what I know: Locate all units didn't work, my units died because of a Stack of 12 Motorized infantry and 2 Combat recon vehicles. I did the 3k locate all, immediately after my strike fighters died (within 5 minutes), so I can't know if the Infantry disembarked after that, but I would have to assume that they were there because it wiped out my whole stack.

Germanico · Jun 12th 2018, 6:22pm

Here is what probably happened: You used Reveal Nation's Forces on Israel - when the forces on the ground were in fact South African - thus not showing up. This leads me to conclude that we should really change the dynamics of the reveal forces... cause that was a totally explicable human error caused by the description and mechanics of the gold feature. I am super sorry for this but it actually led me to reconsider some of these features as a whole.

Let me propose to change the underlying mechanic and instead of the Reveal Local Forces / Reveal Nations Forces we try the following:

A) Reveal Local Forces remains what it is - a cheapish local reveal displaying a city area more or less
B) Reveal Nation's Forces becomes "Reveal Regional Forces" showing a much larger area, but similar to "local" we show all units - simulating a Satellite Flyover or such.
C) we remove the previous Reveal Nations Forces cause that is so imbalanced that even paying players admit they cringe because it's so unfair

In my mind this would have prevented you from above mistake AND also would still not reveal eg. a South African Sub somewhere in the Pacific.

MallahanJr · Jun 12th 2018, 11:27pm

Sounds good. I only use the reveal forces local/all when there is a run away player (3x the size of the 2nd ranked player in the game) to determine if I am going to let him buy the win. The second reason I use it is because the CoN News doesn't give me enough information as to what happened. I have been trying out 4 different play styles, and when something that odd happens, I have to know what was going on.

Germanico · Jun 13th 2018, 12:22am

I totally know what you are saying. It correlates wIth our own experience - using Reveal All feels like pre-viewing your own Christmas presents. Something every kid wants to do but once it happens all the fun is gone. We need to find a good way in the middle...

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