Rocket Defense

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    • " and if I'm not mistaken you can give yourself an even bigger gap, if played right"

      this i didn't knew.

      Which means that there is an higher level of meta than i personally use, and what i use has been enough to put anti-missile in the box where they already are bows and arrows
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • I really dont get your oint Opulon.

      You say you disagree with me and he point that rockets are to good and that there is no cheap defense against them.
      And thenyou show by example and how to even break through the most expensive defense of ntirockets(50 TDS onf tier 3) with just a cruis missle and a nuclear bomb lvl 1.


      You have proven my point - but disagree with me. Are you wokring in politics?

      Liste i like the discussion that is running.

      rockets are a cheap way of spamming especially in a early game. They deal really lots of damage and once you paid the research it is a non brainer.

      You hitthe oponent bases with lvl 5 army base and game over. Your opponentn can not defend against missles any more.

      and that was my point. If I am not willing/able to put real money to the game I can not recover anymore. Because i can only have a missle defense with lvl 5 army base.
      @Dorado If you Close the Forum and move everything to Discord you will lose my Feedback for sure.
    • Opulon wrote:

      I don't understand you. If i have 2-3 cruise missiles level 1, and one ICBM level 1, i don't fear 200 TDS level max, i know i will pierce through. It's predictable, documented, easy to reproduce, already official in the meta, and some alliances already have it in their basic training.
      Don't need any random missile and air defense... then enter random and artillery (in real life it is less accurate than missile defense!!!). To act correctly will allow two options:
      1) Install the ability to manually override the missile or enemy plane (as done with artillery and ships);
      2) to introduce the possibility of Radio Electronic Attack PRO(this requires a new level unit such as AWACS aircraft and Naval AWACS), and in response to create a machine EW (just think it's right to separate radar and launcher (so that would be no anti-missile radar could not work-this will allow a very strong defense to disrupt not a direct attack)...

      A simple random counter will take note of zero player experience and mathematical calculations (disagree with Opulon-two cruise missiles and one ICBM will not be able to destroy 4 launchers ABOUT even 1 LVL)

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      Не нужен ни какой рэндом в противоракетной и противовоздушной обороне... тогда вводите рэндом и в артиллерию (в реальной жизни она менее точная чем противоракетная оборона!!!). Правильно поступить позволит два варианта:
      1) Установить возможность ручного игнорирования ракеты или самолета противника (как выполнено с артиллерией и кораблями);
      2) ввести возможность Радио Электронной Атаки ПРО(для этого необходим новый уровень у юнита например самолета ДРЛО и Морской ДРЛО), а в ответ создать машину РЭБ (так же считаю правильным разделить радар и пусковую установку (так что бы без радара противо ракета работать не могла-это позволит очень мощную оборону ПРО дезорганизовать не прямой атакой)...

      Простой рэндом счетчика приведет к сведению на ноль опыта игрока и математических расчетов (не соглашусь с Opulon - две крылатые ракеты и один МБР не сможет уничтожить 4 пусковых установки ПРО даже 1 лвл)
    • Opulon!

      by the way, for a player who is often online scheme launch cruise missiles to strike an ICBM, not a ride... I will not let you fly or swim with a carrier of cruise missiles in a radius of 250 km from my cities. flying time for example from Africa to China 1 hour 20 minutes and you're going to wait for the aircraft in my coastal waters 1 hour 5 minutes? fly and wait for the launch of a cruise missile that would knock down the counter? Not gonna fly! I'm online every 40 minutes and I always have something to destroy the carrier cruise missiles. His allies I will help and I will help... because they know how to counteract such tearing missile defense... So that your ways overcoming missile DEFENSE work in two cases: 1.spoiling the beginner; 2. against moreover who off line.

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      Opulon!

      к стати для игрока который часто онлайн схема пуска крылатой ракеты перед ударом МБР не прокатит... не дам я тебе с носителем крылатых ракет летать или плавать в радиусе 250 км от моих городов. подлетное время например из африки до китая 1 час 20 минут и ты собрался ждать самолетами у меня в прибрежных водах 1 час 5 минут? летать и ждать пуска крылатой ракеты что бы сбить счетчик? Не прокатит! я онлайн каждые 40 минут и мне всегда есть чем уничтожить носитель крылатых ракет. Своим союзникам я так же помогу и мне помогут... так как знают как противодействовать таким разрывателям противо ракетной обороны... Так что твои способы преодоления ПРО работают в двух случаях: 1.портив новичка; 2. против того кто офф лайн.
    • @kurtvonstein "You have proven my point - but disagree with me. Are you wokring in politics?"

      No. It's, to the contrary, people in politics that can't distinguish a point that "goes against their opponent" from "a point that goes their way", as well as they can't distinguish a "point that doesn't go their way" from "a point that goes against them"

      Your point is "missile anti-defense is expensive, not affordable to defend against missiles" with a focus on "the units didn't get hitpoints". In other words, you call for a buff of the anti-missiles units, or a reduction of their price. I disagree with that for 2 major reasons :

      1°) the Cruise missile line of "attack" vs "defense" isn't so bad, even if the late forces you indeed to have TDS (maybe a tech reduction cost would be nice, for that)
      2°) My explanations, if anything, say that even if you reduce the cost of anti-missile by 90% and increase their hitpoints by 500%, it doesn't change, at all, the underlying design problem of how bubbles work and trigger, and how any player with a basic training in such matters can avoid them entirely.

      "Missile Defense can be nullified by design and simple tricks" =/= "Missile Defense should be buffed" .

      So, while we technically end, PutinW and me, with the same opinion that Missile Defense shouldn't be buffed, we are in disagreement with the reasons :

      He considers that Missile Defense is overpowered.
      I consider that Missile Defense has, if we were to speak like it's a software, several easy and critical backdoors.

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      @PutinW


      "1) Install the ability to manually override the missile or enemy plane (as done with artillery and ships);
      2) to introduce the possibility of Radio Electronic Attack PRO(this requires a new level unit such as AWACS aircraft and Naval AWACS), and in response to create a machine EW (just think it's right to separate radar and launcher (so that would be no anti-missile radar could not work-this will allow a very strong defense to disrupt not a direct attack)..."

      Thouse would be two very good ideas, but we already know that they can't do the first. For the second, i think it's a long term potential feature we all would like to see :D


      "A simple random counter will take note of zero player experience and mathematical calculations (disagree with Opulon-two cruise missiles and one ICBM will not be able to destroy 4 launchers ABOUT even 1 LVL)"

      To come back to the initial scenario, the Cruise missiles don't deliver any damage. They are here to trigger the bubble. The ICBM is the damage dealer, and the key word about it is "splash damage". It will apply its damages in a radius around the province it has it.

      An ICBM level one has 400 anti-hard damages

      It's not 400 "shared between all groups that are too close". It's 400, per group too close.

      Now, my scenario implied that the opponent had put at least 2 TDS max level per province , which leaves that the ICBM will probably be reduced to ~4-5 HP before applying its damages. Because an damaged unit deals less damages, we can plan that the ICBM will deal in radius around ~150 damages.

      This is enough to instantly kill all TDS groups in the vicinity ( let's imagine that the suburbs has two connexions : 6 TDS are killed), then the damage apply on the city, where 10 TDS are stacked. They have 200 HP with a 25% damage reduction. They receive 112 anti-hard damage (post reduction), and so, we can expect 4 to 5 to die. It's ~10 TDS killed, which have cost to its owner 20 000 supplies, 15 000 electronics, and 35 000 $. He also had to invest 15 000 rare materials to that level of tech. (exactly the same cost to research the ICBM, except that you had to produce 3 nuclear warheads.)

      Conclusion in that exhange : An level 1 ICBM used in the good "missile defense back door" is very worth it, even if the terrain was litteraly covered by anti-missile.

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      If you use the argument of : "This won't work because my buddies and me wouldn't let you do that, also i'm super active so i would totally kill your ICBMS before they are launched, buddy", i think we are done. My goal here isn't to contest that you are much more active than me on the batlefield, and that you are, by far, a much better fighter than me. I recognise it without second thought, and i bow before your majesty.

      Wishing you a good day, i will seek to speak of that matter with people more interested in data/experiment :D
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • Opulon!
      thank you for recognizing my greatness Partner (you're not the first) :thumbup: ... for this+, you then repeat all that is connected with weakening of the air defense - these changes affected only new to the game... your magic with whipped counter defense ABOUT hesitant ABOUT a simple increase in the stack (put a 5T minimum LVL and you won't break it no how!). and about the shooting down of the counter about a cruise missile before the impact of a Nuclear Intercontinental missile is nonsense! So hard taking the defense of the underdeveloped player - stupid, to mock myself trying to break through the defense of a skilled player with good online (and a good experienced player online before the decisive battle is good) is USELESS and COUNTERPRODUCTIVE. Since this threat can be prevented.
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      Opulon!
      спасибо за признание моего величия Партнер (ты не первый) :thumbup: ... за это тебе +, далее повторю все что связано с ослаблением ПВО - от этих изменений пострадает только новичок в игре... твои волшебства со сбитием счетчика обороны ПРО решаются простым увеличением ПРО в стеке (ставь 5ть минимального лвл и ты не пробьешь его ни как!). а по поводу сбития счетчика ПРО крылатой ракетой перед ударом Ядерной межконтинентальной ракеты - это бред! Так напрягаться снимая оборону слаборазвитого игрока - глупо, так глумиться над собой пытаясь пробить оборону опытного игрока с хорошим онлайном (а у хорошего опытного игрока онлайн перед решающими битвами хороший) БЕСПОЛЕЗНО и КОНТРПРОДУКТИВНО. Так как эту угрозу можно предотвратить.