Feedback (on the last update)

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    • Feedback (on the last update)

      Since there are a lot of people voicing their thoughts, I will do it too!



      1. General state of balancing

      I am really happy! There is always room for improvement but the situation months before was certainly not as good as today ;)
      Just to list a few:

      - Artillery
      There are 3 types of artilleries, each comes with a higher range but in return higher building requirements and different mobility. Am I cheap and opt for the towed artillery but risk getting outranged by everyone else? Do I go for tanky mobile artillery that don't cost any electronics but can't fly? Or do I go for MRLs, can I even afford army bases lv4 and are the huge electronics costs worth the better range and speed? On top of that, the range difference isn't that big, against higher ranges you may not be able to scoop and doop, but neither the enemy if you know how to position smart. I love it! There is a legit reason to go for any artillery.

      - ASW Helicopters
      Their damage buff throughout several updates really helped a lot giving it a purpose! Especially with its large (sonar) radar it is the perfect support for your fleet.

      - Submarines
      Nerfing the destroyers sonar range was key in enabling the submarines(even though not aimed at subs), now the subs are finally the true hunters of the deep sea, no longer be seen by destroyers until they are in shooting range! A new ASW Helis Meta might be on the rise? No worries, just stay away from shores :P

      - Tanks
      Nerfing artilleries damage and especially their range will help enabling tanks, making tanks at least a bit more useful at the presence of enemy artillery. Combine tanks with some officers and you got a super deadly, speedy and tanky ground squad.

      - Missiles
      They were used to be able to be shot down easily, especially the bigger ones. Just a couple SAMs were all someone needed. Now you actually need a huge amount of SAMs or TDS, especially in late. But that shouldn't pose a problem since in late one has the ressources for TDS! My only concern is that it takes 4(!) Frigates to shoot down a CM, while it is quite easy to launch numerous CMs at once.


      - Officers
      The latest update should give officers a decent return for their costs!



      However, there are still a few units where I feel uneasy.

      - Marine Patrol Aircraft
      Their radar range is only 100km. That makes them terrible scouters. If I can see the enemy, the enemy(his frigates) can see me too and shoot at me. Given the rather high damage output of Frigates towards aircrafts and the fragile MP Aircrafts, taking hits by frigates is deadly. Please improve their radar/sonar, buff it once again to 150km please.
      A buff in HP / Speed would certainly be cool and help them, though it is not as neccessary as an improvement in their radar.


      - Strategic missile Submarine
      Used primarily to launch missiles. But if it was only for their missile capabilities, that would be extremely expensive given their high costs and building requirements! Having lower stats (damage wise) is fine, but the range is defining! Having 25km less range is straight up BAD.
      During these days the missile sub has less range than a normal sub (for simplicity, the research time is 0):
      11-16; 22-26
      Now compared to destroyers:
      13-16; 23-26

      The attack submarine even outranges the destroyer occasionally(!), cool! But the missile submarine gets outranged regularly for a long period of time which makes them pretty useless for combat units during this time. I'm fine with being weaker, more expensive, but being outranged is uncool.


      - Amphibious AFV
      Aren't those more like amphibious CRV? They share similar stats to the CRV: deal not so great damage; reveals stealths. Compare the amphibious version to the normal version and you will see that the former is significantly weaker! At least they are tankier and deal more damage towards tanks than CRVs. From a purely stats-perspective I feel like amphibious AFV are more like CRVs than AFVs. Why does it matter? Because if I want to build them, I either have to research CRV or AFV. (On a side note, if they remain AFV sided, please buff their damage, they cost as much as an AFV and are yet significantly weaker in close combat, what they are supposed to do)



      2. The controversial hot topic: frigate nerf

      Frigates no longer can attack helicopters. This isn't something small, this is huge, this is a giant buff to helicopters! Here's why:
      Frigates were the last units to have a large AA range against helicopters. Large AA range serves to deny enemy the airspace, with the recent update, there is no more unit that can deny helicopters the airspace. Before, when I planned my assaults on enemy territory using helicopters, I always had to take into account enemy frigates. What if the enemy has frigates? Then all my helicopter units will take damage every 10 minutes, large chunks of HP will be lost during my attack. This mostly led to the case that I can't make extensive use of helicopters (especially units transported by helis) next to seas where enemy frigates are a possibility. With this change, I can air assault where ever I want.

      There is one big down side of the change though. I love being a pirate, build a huge fleet, a couple marine infantries and all the beaches in the world are mine! The enemy is resisting? I shoot him with my ships! I launch CMs! My Frigates protect my marine infantries from any air attacks. However, my frigates no longer can defend my marine infantries from helicopters. In fact, my only choice now are air superiority fighters, most often combined with very expensive carriers. Ground Anti Air? Missing. Because unfortunately, there is no anti air unit that can disembark without a harbour.

      ASW Helis and helis in general are now a lot more dangerous towards ships. It has become a bit more difficult to protect your transport ships from ASW Helis (requiring a bit more micro management). To protect your fleet you now need Air Sups, they are your best choice.

      I personally see this change indifferent.


      3. Removal of internal challenges

      The Phantom Kommando has never used them. Here is how we practiced instead (aimed at those complaining about it):
      -Join a public match with the coalition limit(ideally 5).
      -Every player gets a few units he is supposed to build, example: Player A build Air Sups, Player B helicopters, Player C ships, Player D artillery, Player E anti air. They are only supposed to build the units they were assigned. The team of 5 can only perform if they work well together in many aspects: economic management( "I could afford 6 production centres, but I will only build 4 production centres and give the resources to my mate because his units have higher building requirements); trade (The ship player has plenty of supplies but is in need of components, thus he trades with the artillery player who needs supplies but has plenty of components leftover); military (the helicopters can only work if the air superiority fighters clear the sky for him); and much more just to name the key aspects. The ingame leader in the mean time can practise his leader skills, coordinating the military assaults, making sure that the trade is flourishing. This is the way the PK practices and I think its good (for us, not for our opponents :P ).


      4. Removal of trade embargo.

      We will not die from it. We can still trade internally, just requires both parties to be online at the same time, doable.
      Thinking of the Roleplayers though... it was a neat mechanic :D


      Edit:
      I forgot:
      It is now pretty much risk free to have ASW helis patrolling in the ocean, while being AFK. Using anything else? The enemy only takes a short time to get a Frigate into range and shoot down your patrol aircraft. To take down a heli in the sea without aircraft? Impossible. An African nation could have ASW Helis on the ocean and unless the South Americans have an aircraft carrier, they can NOT get rid of the ASW Heli.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Mc_Johnsen ().

    • Important add-on

      I forgot to mention something about trade embargo, they play a vital role in alliance challenges because as you can imagine, we don't want to trade with our opponent. Trade via diplomacy? Here is one example where it doesn't work, I call it "urgent crowd funding":

      I have 0 electronics, but I need 7000 to produce 7 air sups. I need to start the producion now, the 7 air sups have maximum priority on my entire team. Even worse, I have to go offline. Luckily, I have Premium, so I put the 7 air sups in my queue, the air sups start producing the moment they have the electronics.

      I put a buy offer on the markt: "Buy 7000 electronics for 4$ each". Now I can go offline.

      My teammates now sell all their electronics they have via this offer. Thats 5300 electronics. 1700 left. 1700 electronics I still need urgently. My teammates see this, since the buy offer of 7000 electronics isnt gone yet, it has only shrunk to 1700 electronics. Every ~15 minutes my teammates log in and sell all their newly produced electronic to me. Via this offer, the electronics produciton of all members is put together, funneled into me and the Air Sups can start by themselves.

      Without trade embargo I have nothing to block our opponent from sniping our trades, during peace period.




      Also, we need to trade to send money between teammates (in challenges), because you can't send money via diplomacy...



      PS:
      I think the orginal change notes listed a reduction in resources for Elite challenges, I liked it, there are kinda too many resources :P (If you can produce non stop in all of your cities you only need little economy management skills, which is part of CoN)
    • 1. Because we cant transfer money via diplo panel. To transfer money we must sell and buy things on the market.

      2. See my add-on, this doesn't work via diplo panel.
      To do a trade, at least one person must be online. In my example stated above, the person in need of resources is offline (or online). And if it was done via diplo panel, sending all the newly produced electronics to the player in need takes a lot more time than via offer in market. To sell resources on the market, all you need to do is: open the market, click on sell, confirm sell.
      For diplo trade, you must open the diplo tab, click the right nation, select trade, tick that you want to give resource, tick which resource, tick the quantity of resources to give (did you remember how many resources you have you can give away since you want to give away all?), tick other person gives relationship, tick shared intel, confirm trade, other person has to open diplo tab, pick the right country, click accept. You spend a lot more time doing that.
    • Mc_Johnsen wrote:



      2. The controversial hot topic: frigate nerf

      Frigates no longer can attack helicopters. This isn't something small, this is huge, this is a giant buff to helicopters! Here's why:
      Frigates were the last units to have a large AA range against helicopters. Large AA range serves to deny enemy the airspace, with the recent update, there is no more unit that can deny helicopters the airspace. Before, when I planned my assaults on enemy territory using helicopters, I always had to take into account enemy frigates. What if the enemy has frigates? Then all my helicopter units will take damage every 10 minutes, large chunks of HP will be lost during my attack. This mostly led to the case that I can't make extensive use of helicopters (especially units transported by helis) next to seas where enemy frigates are a possibility. With this change, I can air assault where ever I want.

      There is one big down side of the change though. I love being a pirate, build a huge fleet, a couple marine infantries and all the beaches in the world are mine! The enemy is resisting? I shoot him with my ships! I launch CMs! My Frigates protect my marine infantries from any air attacks. However, my frigates no longer can defend my marine infantries from helicopters. In fact, my only choice now are air superiority fighters, most often combined with very expensive carriers. Ground Anti Air? Missing. Because unfortunately, there is no anti air unit that can disembark without a harbour.

      ASW Helis and helis in general are now a lot more dangerous towards ships. It has become a bit more difficult to protect your transport ships from ASW Helis (requiring a bit more micro management). To protect your fleet you now need Air Sups, they are your best choice.

      I personally see this change indifferent.



      ...

      Edit:
      I forgot:
      It is now pretty much risk free to have ASW helis patrolling in the ocean, while being AFK. Using anything else? The enemy only takes a short time to get a Frigate into range and shoot down your patrol aircraft. To take down a heli in the sea without aircraft? Impossible. An African nation could have ASW Helis on the ocean and unless the South Americans have an aircraft carrier, they can NOT get rid of the ASW Heli.

      Thanks for the detailed write-up! It always helps to know how the changes are perceived and what conclusions everyone draws from them.

      The original intent of the Frigate nerf was actually to remove its offensive capabilities against helicopters and keep them as point defense instead. Unfortunately due to limitations by the engine this didn't turn out as straightforward. That said, Frigate damages against Helicopters will be reintroduced on a very light scale (will be released as a hotfix, meaning it will affect running games). This means ASW's won't get away from encounters unscathed, especially in early game. But it will not restore the original strength that Frigates had against helicopters prior to the update.