Bridges across Rivers

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    • Bridges across Rivers

      Upon watching a documentary of Operation Rolling Thunder, the idea dawned on me: Why don't we have bridges that can cross the rivers in the select games? As a person who often sets up pontoons on opposite sides of rivers and builds military logistics to ease transportation across my nation, it would be FAR easier just to have the ability to create bridges between river-separated provinces. Also, much like real life, these bridges can be targets for bombing runs to slow down and hamper enemy transportation. What do you think?
    • JeremyKJ wrote:

      Upon watching a documentary of Operation Rolling Thunder, the idea dawned on me: Why don't we have bridges that can cross the rivers in the select games? As a person who often sets up pontoons on opposite sides of rivers and builds military logistics to ease transportation across my nation, it would be FAR easier just to have the ability to create bridges between river-separated provinces. Also, much like real life, these bridges can be targets for bombing runs to slow down and hamper enemy transportation. What do you think?
      I think you, much like most players when they first started out, will soon realize that military logistics aren't really worth the resources spent on them, especially if you plan on having an airlift network of airbases and airfields.

      I do like the idea about the ability to bomb enemy infrastructure - not sure if it's already in place; never tried to. Also like the idea of a bridge that allows land units to avoid the wait times of embarkation/disembarkation.
      "Any of you *uckin' pricks move, and I'll execute every mother*uckin' last one of ya!" - Honey Bunny
    • But really, how many bridges would you need to cross quickly?
      The American and Chinese rivers get very annoying to walk around especially if you are under attack. The one in France can be annoying too. Otherwise, most of the time, cities are dispersed along the rivers.
      For example, look at Egypt. The Nile has three crossing points already on it. Cairo and two other cities.
      This feature might be worth making if there were some more annoying rivers to cross.
    • "will soon realize that military logistics aren't really worth the resources spent on them"

      I think i never disagreed more with you, both in terms of challenges and public games, than on this specific statement :D .
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • Opulon wrote:

      "will soon realize that military logistics aren't really worth the resources spent on them"

      I think i never disagreed more with you, both in terms of challenges and public games, than on this specific statement :D .
      Really!? I built them on my first ever 4x game but never again after that, not in public games and not in challenge/elites. Just find that they are quickly unneeded as I progress through the lands and that those resources spent on them would be better spent on other things, especially air bases.

      Kalrakh wrote:

      Someone would be surprised how many logistics we tend to build in challenges, and even in publics I use them, if I play artillery.
      Actually, I am surprised that a player of your caliber would waste their time and resources on them. :P
      "Any of you *uckin' pricks move, and I'll execute every mother*uckin' last one of ya!" - Honey Bunny
    • It mostly depends on your Units.
      Especially Tanks, Rocket launchers, TDFs and some other units are a pain in the ass if you watch them rolling to the front. (Feelin they are movin more reverse than foward)

      They are airmobile at tier 3 so Ligistics might be a good invest.
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      That was not me, that was already broken!
    • With anything related to Hit&run, they are a must. They build in 3 hours, which make them very easy to build and unbuild in the province you want to try to fight, and it can even artificially transform an mountain (supposedly a bumper) into an highway. They are a tactical asset, that immediatly transforms the terrain into a "high sea vs coastal area" ratio of hit&run encounter.

      If i'm moving at 4.2 speed on a plain by using a micro-forced march to deliver a blow while my opponent is moving at 1.0 (or worst), i know that :
      1°) He has virtually no chance to manage to hit me first
      2°) I choose when and where we dance for the hit&run
      3°) The reaction time he needs to maintain the balance with me is 4 times shorter. (FPS Duel between a guy with 50 ping, and the other with 200 )

      Is the price of an infantry or two an acceptable price to virtually ensure that in a 10 artillery vs 10 artillery, you will exit victorious with no more than one casualty (because at some point you fucked up. Speed edge hypothetically ensures overwhelming domination in hit&run encounters)

      In such a situation, if i was the 1.3 mover, i wouldn't engage Kalrakh, except if it serves "the greater good"
      And Kalrakh would probably refuse to engage except if it serves a wider strategical purpose.

      In public games, i tend to use them in early-mid because when i attack my first coalition of 5, i usually want to kill all units of a first victim when they are still confused about how a single player can hope to win against them, then immediatly remobilise against the two or three that will come to his aid or counter attack. The latency between their own mobilisation and mine usually allows me to transform a 1 vs 5 into an quick succession of duels, that are far more easy to manage.

      Let there be no confusion : Units with high Speed + high Activity is a power to be reckoned with. Airports allow to remobilise, but :

      1°) The most powerful ground units (the ones that allow to do 50 K/D ratio) do not lift until their tier 2 or tier 3.
      2°) Airports and airfields are ultimately easy to destroy (think of the massive gold user...), their trajectories are predictable, and i don't know a good player that wouldn't sacrifice some ASF fighters to shot down critical artillery assets while they are in transports.
      3°) Short distances are not to the advantage of the airport/airfield due to the time to embark/disembark, who create by themselves "frames" of vulnerability. In local theaters, an Multiple rocket launcher and his supports moving at 3.75 (without forced march) in several plains provincs supported by logistics will sometimes remobilise quicker. If the need arises, you may even push them into forced march to put them at 4.5 speed, not so far from the air transport speed itself.
      4°) Units in flight are in flight. Quick contextual adaptation is more difficult with them.

      When i write this, one may think that i dislike airports for remobilising. It's of course not the case : establishing an airport/airfield network is of paramount importance as the game progresses. However, logistics do are precious in many contexts that are virtually bound to happen in every game. It's not about making them everywhere for the pleasure of having an network.


      In challenges, let's just say that Kalrakh has said it all : Good positioning of logistics may launch like an "high-velocity bullet" battlegroups againt key-points, and are critical to make the most of the 24 hours a challenge will last. Same can be said from outposts. I don't imagine an encounter where i wouldn't make an heavy use of logistics to move quicker around the opponent. Either i do it to get the operaitonal edge, or i do it in order that he doesn't get the operational edge :D


      Now, let's pray that Caake doesn't come to explain how actually there are many other parameters to hit&run like the Delta of angles for the pathes the two armies took, and so on :D. I know i have been simplistic.
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • I can agree with this reasoning for "heavy" movers like the units you both mentioned. I just haven't had that much experience using them as much as you clearly have in the games.

      Thank you both, @Kalrakh & @Opulon, for enlightening me.
      "Any of you *uckin' pricks move, and I'll execute every mother*uckin' last one of ya!" - Honey Bunny