COIN aircraft/Light attack aircraft and Ground attack aircraft, official promotion

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    • War-spite wrote:

      I was preparing a set of aircraft and stats and had an epiphany, so I figured I would ask about what you all thought.

      I see the CAS/COIN aircraft a primarily a ground attack plane, with similar attack values to helicopters, but a split between the gunship (anti inf weak AT) and the attack copter (weak inf strong AT), so if for example a helo starts out 7/2 or 2/7 this would sit at 4/4. It would have an advantage of helo's by virtue of range, and HP (speed would be close to the same) but that quickly runs up against the stats of the strike fighter.

      An SF would have better infra/population damage than helo/coin and much better range. So what would be the real point of the COIN vs just using helo's? an extra 150 on range? Didn't seem worthwhile enough until...

      I think i know what the COIN should be based on.

      Combat recon vehicles

      So we have a 4/4 starting point and an 8/8 ending point. lots of HP because they are armored, average of .2 on infra and 2.0 on pop, not as much as an SF but better than helo's to take into account the bombs, give them an average of 550 range going up to 800 range at final.

      Upgrades include better optics/radar, stealth maybe? carrier landings?



      Ok, now here is where i lose any fans i might have made. I don't think we should have the A-10. It is a dominating aircraft, with no equal in any other tech tree (no the frogfoot really doesn't equal it). I also think the low end COIN craft should be eliminated as well as they don't serve any real purpose.

      So here is my basic take on the tree:

      For simplicity sake I am keeping all stats the same for USA/EURO/SOV

      4/4 / 0.5 / 0.5 / 0/0/0 2.0 /2.0 5.5/5.5 / 0.5 / 0.5 0/0/0 / 2.5 /2.5 8/8/ 0.5 / 0.8 / 0.5/0/0/ 3/3

      range: 550 / 650 /750
      speed: 8
      sight range: 50
      HP: 30 /35 / 40

      first unit available day 2, research costs mid way between attack copter and strike fighter) req: airbase lvl 1, level 3 require airbase lvl 2.

      units are:
      euro:
      BAC-Strikemaster (+.5 on inf/armor/infra attacks due to comparably higher number of hardpoints to others of first gen)
      BAE Hawk
      Mako HEAT (+2 on speed)

      USA:
      AT-6B
      A-37 Dragonfly (has radar
      OV-10 Bronco ( carrier capable/ has radar)

      SOV:
      YAK-52B
      Super-Tucano ( i know - it isn't russian, but a lot of russian tech using countries do use this plane)
      Yak-130 (note this would have +1 on aircraft damage due to fighter characteristics, + 2 on speed)

      Well? thoughts? Am I way off base? Anyone even still reading?



      I really dont see the pont you are trying to make man


      we have COIN aircraft and Ground attack aircraft here. What is your point?
      The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants
      - Thomas Jefferson

      Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
      - Milton Friedman

      Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.
      - Sun Tzu
    • a Bomber would have less armor and are more vulnerable to anti aircraft fire, CAS Fighters Such as the A-10 Can take a beating.

      Also the bombers we have does less damage to Vehicles, a max western bomber does only 5.9

      CAS Aircraft would have higher damage against tanks and infantries than strike fighters and more HP of course,

      but they'll be very vulnerable by other air superiority aircrafts
      Stay Focused, Stay Alive

      Signed,


      Ulysses
    • @Seele07

      Think about it, we dont have any fixed wing aircrft that are really capable of doing damage to soft targets. Yes we have heavy bombers, but need something more tactical and less strategic. Cheap and easy to use.
      The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants
      - Thomas Jefferson

      Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
      - Milton Friedman

      Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.
      - Sun Tzu
    • Great suggestion.Better call them attack strike fighter or Attack aircraft-it will be better.
      and the Yak-52 should be removed,because it's a ww2 aircraft(or based on a ww2 fighter).
      Everything should be like that:
      Eastern doctrine:
      tier 1:Su-17
      tier 2:Su-25
      tier 3:Su-39
      Western doctrine:
      tier 1:A-4 Skyhawk
      tier 2:A-8 Crusader
      tier 3:A-10 Thunderbolt II
      European doctrine:
      tier 1:Alpha jet-a
      tier 2:Saab j-32
      tier 3:Dassault etendard IV
      THREE THINGS YOU MUST REMEMBER FROM ME-
      1:When you play,never foget to research as many technology as you can-later will be useful
      2:.Don't overbuild-Or when the fuel bills come,you will cry .
      3:First attack playable countries-or later they will eat you alive.
      thanks for reading.
    • This is a better concept, but this attack strike fighter have also more power against tanks. And I think one or two per doctrin are enough. We have enough to Research in this game.
      The attack strike fighter have more range than the helicopters, but they are weak against aircrafts.
      „Morgen, ihr Luschen!“ --- „Morgen, Chef!“ (Ausbilder Schmidt alias Holger Müller bei der Arbeit)
    • Red Alert 2 wrote:

      Great suggestion.Better call them attack strike fighter or Attack aircraft-it will be better.
      and the Yak-52 should be removed,because it's a ww2 aircraft(or based on a ww2 fighter).
      Everything should be like that:
      Eastern doctrine:
      tier 1:Su-17
      tier 2:Su-25
      tier 3:Su-39
      Western doctrine:
      tier 1:A-4 Skyhawk
      tier 2:A-8 Crusader
      tier 3:A-10 Thunderbolt II
      European doctrine:
      tier 1:Alpha jet-a
      tier 2:Saab j-32
      tier 3:Dassault etendard IV
      I can't say I agree with this list. The niche that needs filling is the cheap low tech slow ground attack aircraft. The strong vs inf and armor, long range, slow, vulnerable to sam and aa, cheap, low research cost turbo props of the air power world. Basically a combat recon vehicle of the sky.
      ----------------------

      Jacopo: Why not just kill them? I'll do it! I'll run up to Paris - bam, bam, bam, bam. I'm back before week's end. We spend the treasure. How is this a bad plan?

      Remember that no one ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb idiot die for his country.
    • Well, I think the last tier of these will still be a COIN aicraft instead of a light attack aicraft

      Maybe we dont have the attack aircraft an off branch like seen with the Naval awacs, maybe we give the attack aircraft its own branch. However the issue is, its extremely difficult to fill this. Like there are not many pure attack aircraft like the froggoot, A-10, AMX international, and the Serbian one I am forgetting
      The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants
      - Thomas Jefferson

      Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
      - Milton Friedman

      Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.
      - Sun Tzu
    • I have trouble to follow you guys, i lack the proper military understanding.

      Could you give an example of unit (with stats/costs/requirement i mean) of the unit you imagine ? Earlier on the forum i saw someone proposing a 35 HP 550 range 4/4, and i said to myself "well, it basically does everything", and so, i do feel that you all have a point to explain that is important to you, but i struggle :D
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • "... cheap low tech slow ground attack aircraft. The strong vs inf and armor, long range, slow, vulnerable to sam and aa, cheap, low research cost"

      After our upcoming AA fixes, your summary description will pretty much apply to Helicopters.
      In all honesty we already had a massive issue finding a role for Helis in compliance with the available game mechanics.
      So even if we wanted to add Attack Aircraft they then would essentially make the Helicopters obsolete - and I think that would be a shame.

      //G
      "Going to war without France is like going hunting without an accordion." Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf
    • Maybe the gunship and the heavy bomber could get then a little anti-soft boost. Ya know, with all this new infantry on the field
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • I prefer a ground attack aircraft that is only a little bit cheaper than the strike fighter and strong against infantry and armor. Good against helicopter, but weak against aircrafts.
      And only 1 or 2 tiers. And NO Propeller aircrafts. I hate it to have in this game a lot of aircrafts that looks like WW2.

      I prefer the A-10, the Alpha Jet and Su 25
      Researchable at day 4 or 8. But you must have the naval strike fighter also researched.
      „Morgen, ihr Luschen!“ --- „Morgen, Chef!“ (Ausbilder Schmidt alias Holger Müller bei der Arbeit)
    • Germanico wrote:

      "... cheap low tech slow ground attack aircraft. The strong vs inf and armor, long range, slow, vulnerable to sam and aa, cheap, low research cost"

      After our upcoming AA fixes, your summary description will pretty much apply to Helicopters.
      In all honesty we already had a massive issue finding a role for Helis in compliance with the available game mechanics.
      So even if we wanted to add Attack Aircraft they then would essentially make the Helicopters obsolete - and I think that would be a shame.

      //G
      As much as i like the A-10 IRL , it would probably be a game breaker. Putin recognized it as the most devastating ground support anti tank aircraft ever made.
      People are going to have to use combined force attacks to be successful , air alone or ground alone wont work well for long. The best solution i see for a unit with both SAM and AA in it is artillery , you need to get those in range. A combined air/ground assault and attacking in waves will be required.
    • Opulon wrote:

      I have trouble to follow you guys, i lack the proper military understanding.

      Could you give an example of unit (with stats/costs/requirement i mean) of the unit you imagine ? Earlier on the forum i saw someone proposing a 35 HP 550 range 4/4, and i said to myself "well, it basically does everything", and so, i do feel that you all have a point to explain that is important to you, but i struggle :D
      This thread is kind old haha, I think in the first post I added stats. I didnt do costs I do not believe and requirments are in the tree
      The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants
      - Thomas Jefferson

      Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
      - Milton Friedman

      Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.
      - Sun Tzu
    • Germanico wrote:

      "... cheap low tech slow ground attack aircraft. The strong vs inf and armor, long range, slow, vulnerable to sam and aa, cheap, low research cost"

      After our upcoming AA fixes, your summary description will pretty much apply to Helicopters.
      In all honesty we already had a massive issue finding a role for Helis in compliance with the available game mechanics.
      So even if we wanted to add Attack Aircraft they then would essentially make the Helicopters obsolete - and I think that would be a shame.

      //G
      Thats a good point and I had that in mind.

      And I think helicopters were done well, and personally I use them a lot.

      My suggestions for the A-10, Saw less anti armor stats than the attack helicopter. But obviously more expensive, faster. And higher upkeep
      The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants
      - Thomas Jefferson

      Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
      - Milton Friedman

      Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.
      - Sun Tzu
    • At the risk of beating a dead horse.. does this sound reasonable...
      What if under the helicopter tree, we had helo gun ships and attack helo's for tier 1 and 2, and then CAS aircraft for tier 3?

      so western attack chain might go cobra, viper, warthog
      eastern is i think alligator, ???, the frogfoot
      euro would be whatever/whatever/pucara

      I know this will tick off the historical accuracy crowd, but it seems like a compromise that could work, no?
      ----------------------

      Jacopo: Why not just kill them? I'll do it! I'll run up to Paris - bam, bam, bam, bam. I'm back before week's end. We spend the treasure. How is this a bad plan?

      Remember that no one ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb idiot die for his country.
    • War-spite wrote:

      At the risk of beating a dead horse.. does this sound reasonable...
      What if under the helicopter tree, we had helo gun ships and attack helo's for tier 1 and 2, and then CAS aircraft for tier 3?

      so western attack chain might go cobra, viper, warthog
      eastern is i think alligator, ???, the frogfoot
      euro would be whatever/whatever/pucara

      I know this will tick off the historical accuracy crowd, but it seems like a compromise that could work, no?
      Personally, I wouldnt like this. They should be seperate,

      think about carriers and LHDSs (eventually :P )
      The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants
      - Thomas Jefferson

      Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
      - Milton Friedman

      Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.
      - Sun Tzu