Strategies to win maps with no Navy

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    • Currently, after resent updates, where ASW chopper was nerfed "till ground" (after tons of tears, poured on the forum by navy lowers), there isnt any effective land based unit against navy.


      But anyway you may try to use large amount of attack helicopters, I mean really many, 4-5 wings = 20-25 pcs. You just attack fleets with lot of choppers and return hardly damaged choppers to air base with high hospital level (to avoid losses), after healing attack again. Ships healing ability is very limited. You still may build ASW choppers, but I suppose attack choppers are better cose they have almost same anti navy rate as ASW and besides are usable in land operation too.
      Also you may try to use naval strike fighters same type, but here you will have awesome losses against experienced player, making combined fleets with lot of frigates, using fleets in order 2 or 3x5 ships in close destination.

      If navy owner is developed enough to have good carriers in fleets and cover his fleets by fighters, based on carriers, you cant hurt him at all by any air forces :(

      Also you may try use "mini navy". If you build stack of submarines and add them officer, your opponent will have serious problem :)

      Artillery has lowest effectiveness imho cose mobile arty has range lower then developed ships and you cant hold in each point you want defend 5 pcs of MLRS. But if you need defend 1-2 ports, MLRS is good enough mixed with other units to lower incoming damage.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Raf ().

    • Raf wrote:

      Currently, after resent updates, where was nerfed "till ground" ASW chopper (after tons of tears, poured on the forum by navy lowers), there isnt any effective land based unit against navy.
      Choppers still win the war of attrition vs navy... but if you play in a coalition having a player dedicated to navy is pretty important because you will have to cross that ocean at some point

      If you play solo you can just ignore the aspect of naval combat as a whole since you can get the vp you need to win just by conquering Africa and a bit of Europe

      But in general the best way to kill navy is a navy of your own, tho naval patrol aircraft on max level is decent against navy, but they're up against frigs which are a dedicated anti air vessel and are trading at an almost 1 to 1 ratio with them.
      imo they could use an "off version" like strike fighter has its naval version, so you can split the dmg they will recieve between the units, dramatically increasing their survivability and making them more efficient at fighting navy.
    • To some extent, countering navy implies to have at least one navy card in its own hand. ASW still is potent in the long run against navies, western attack helicopters in early are still viable against early ships, in the meaning that from a pure navy-perspective, cruisers are good against them, but cruisers are not that impressive against planes, and awful (whatever the tech) against missiles.

      People will then add frigates to their groups to make them potent against planes and missiles (up to 3 per group against the threat of Max level CMs), and suddenly, the group is comparatively vulnerable to subs. People then add destroyers to their fleets, or their own subs. And subs end their tech line being way more costly than destroyers, but operationally superior to them.

      It's hard, next to impossible in my opinion, to defeat a full-navy high-tech focused player without "an equivalent navy" in front of it. At best, you can deter it with MRL that get pretty decent if they actually manage to hit. But there, there is the tech curve to consider. A player that would not be bound to lowly problems like "time" or "resources" is indeed "unbalanced" (but it's unbalanced like... well, many things) is indeed a formidable foe. However, the commitment to navy implies critical deficiencies in all areas, ground especially, until mid-late. Full-navy focus is relevant in the scope of a coalition where players specialise themselves, and so... it's "expected" to have something roughly similar on the other side (now... that this happens is another story.)

      For the others more "regular players", as Teburu hints, "attrition", due to the fact ships potentially heal at a third of the rate the ASW force will, wins the day, tactically. However, except the 1% of us, "who does that ?" :D
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • I experimenting now with "full navy" tactic and may say that I feel myself like Thor, just "God's hammer".

      Still in early-middle part of game Im able put all enemies coalition core cities which are in range in ruins. Reachable are I suppose almost always aprox 50% of core cities, so as you understand this is victory already if you teammates arent total bummers.


      Till 15th day is possible build 25 vessels, developed till T2 level, 1-2 more days for relocation and 2-3 for bombardment, voila party is ended :)

      In time from 15 till 20 days no one land country has units able to stop terror from the sea. All are busy with land based wars. In case opponents have some low level ships , that isnt problem at all cose you have more vessels and your vessels are much higher developed.

      Of course for such tactic realization need take any distant country to avoid land wars and land units development and building.

      Also plus is navy tactic required much less online time compared with air tactic for example.


      *And aircrafts, based on carriers, receiving healing, same as vessels in coastal water.
    • easy advice take nation in deep land and you care about ship when you go for enemy cities .. yes easy used navy to destroy coastal and be king of sea .. yes its hard to strike down this navy FLEET ... but on first place is economy

      so on public game is navy key tool for not be looser but for wictory is not nessesary .. yes many time oponent coaly look how is situation ride in hell by only my frigate on flash point map same on normal big map its hapens but still isnt important what you used but how , if you strong or have cooperative player or like on speed isn important level tech tree and evry another but its most only count range, number (like on air fleet ...) activity becose heal rate is so speed ... its easy kiled 30 ship by one with big range (like me now today send oficier 75 KM range to clear all sea in atlantic and go sleep ... becose i know it that nobody from enemy have range 75 ...) resulf 30 ship down any loose on HP ... so ist posible win withnout navy ... like its posible win withount make any ARMORED vehicle .. any artilery just make fleet heli and air striker ..some mobile infatry and lets go for world yes and some radar count two ... and 5 frigate ... on end of game 20 but in day 20 air strike force 25 aircaft ... so is not bud question how is posible win without navy but better q is how is my benefit and how is my situation evry advice how and what reseach and how use ... its may go in hell if enemy have something like brain or more activity or more unit .. or less (becose sometime may loos game just by outcome resource for many unit
    • Interestingly, due to the HP curve of CMs, i would nearly advocate to "nerf" frigates anti-missile in early, and buff it in late, in order to roughly keep the "you need 2 frigates per stack to stop passively similar tiered cruise misiles".

      Right now, it goes more like "between one and two in early", 3 in mid, 4 in late.

      1.5 (instead of 2.5) Level 1-2. (2 frigates point defense)
      2.5 (instead of 3.5) level 3. (2 frigates point defense/ 3 frigates if not teched)
      3.5 (instead of 4) level 4 (3 frigates point defense / 4 frigates if previous tech)
      5 (instead of 4) level 6-7 (3 frigates point defense / 5 frigates if previous tech).

      Not the kind of change that make the CM good against navy, true, but it's a bit less erratic between early and late ( by that, i mean that you'll stop in early less CM by chance and more because you planned for frigates, and in late you'll stop more CM if you planned properly. After all, frigates in late are poor in surface combat, so we all try to sink them to open the bubble)
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • I dont know if this has change since my last game but CM on lvl 4 has 11 hitpoints...no way 2 fregates take them down. You would send more then1 crusie missle anyway becasue they only do 40 damage...

      Before lvl 4 CM are pretty useless if any AAA-unit is around. The jump in Hitpoints from 5 to 11 is a massive advantage.

      And day 15 ist not really late game. Economically spoken if you can get CM on lvl 4 before day 16 your are a real Rockefeller.
      Alle sagten: Das geht nicht. Dann kam einer, der wusste das nicht und hat es einfach gemacht.
    • My ladder takes into account the HP jump in comparative tier of CM. Which is exactly why, even with "similar tech", the level 4 forces to have 3 frigates to have efficient point defense (which is the only that matters truly)
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • Standard navy stack has 3 frigates + 2 destroyers or 2 FR + 3 DD. Its more then enough for any CM, even for max lvl developed with 15 HP.
      Even 2 FR T2 have already 16 HP (8 aura + 8 PD), also DD have some PD 3 x1.5 = 4.5 HP. I dont know exact figure , but as per my personal experience CM has aprox 20% chance to avoid point defense only. Meaning that part of damage lost during aura you need dump inadequate huge amount of resources to hurt enemy navy with CM.

      Also any "navy based" player will have always maximally developed ships as early as possible so your counter units will be always less developed then navy (I dont take gold users of course). Plus any experienced navy player will use in danger areas 2-3 fleets in close enough order to cover each other ...
    • When it comes to Cruise missiles and bubble-piercing, 2 offensive damage or 200 000 000 000 000 000 000 don't make a difference. It made a difference when the bubble was reset after 1 minute on entity kill (not a huge difference, though). As now it's 10 minutes reload "whatever what is hit", the first is always bait, and only the point defense is relevant. Anything below the HP value = kill.


      At max level, 3 frigates + 2 DD has 15 PD, which means that "sometimes", the CM will go through, depending of ~0.8-1.2 coefficient that combat rating has. From a pure economic perspective, needing on average 6 CM (= 12 warheads) to damage the stack to reduce to raise to 40% the odds (so 8 new warheads wasted) to kill the first frigate, from where the odds get to 100 (then you use 10 warheads to sink the navy), i think it will quickly deplete their stock. However, interestingly, in the context of late game, it can still be argued as "economically viable"... The navy costed more resources, but producing so many warheads took more time.

      2 frigates + 3 DD doesn't work, though. Even if you're lucky.

      This said, you have convinced me. No player should overfocus on frigates even if the ship gets damage in priority in surface combat, and it's the player job to ensure there are enough mixity/other ships in the stack to find balance between 100% missile impervious and "vulnerability" to surface ships/subs
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • Opulon wrote:

      When it comes to Cruise missiles and bubble-piercing, 2 offensive damage or 200 000 000 000 000 000 000 don't make a difference. It made a difference when the bubble was reset after 1 minute on entity kill (not a huge difference, though). As now it's 10 minutes reload "whatever what is hit", the first is always bait, and only the point defense is relevant. Anything below the HP value = kill.


      At max level, 3 frigates + 2 DD has 15 PD, which means that "sometimes", the CM will go through, depending of ~0.8-1.2 coefficient that combat rating has. From a pure economic perspective, needing on average 6 CM (= 12 warheads) to damage the stack to reduce to raise to 40% the odds (so 8 new warheads wasted) to kill the first frigate, from where the odds get to 100 (then you use 10 warheads to sink the navy), i think it will quickly deplete their stock. However, interestingly, in the context of late game, it can still be argued as "economically viable"... The navy costed more resources,
      That is why whith right use of airforce together with CM's will end overhand over navy, even full of fregates.
      even if CM's used only to splitt encome active damage, and hit fregates with aircrafts only, using hospital lvl 5 you will return back fullhealthed if you use good mix of aircrafts you will not lose single unit in fight vs 5er stack 3 star fregates.