Pinned Spies: What are your thoughts?

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    • you see this you know you are doing something right.

      Well to get back to the topic. Not having the possibility choosing is the whole point between paying real money vs just ingame money. This is fine for me. I can life with that.

      Ugly is that there is no Limit. The worst is lowering moral. So if a golder does all your homeland cities to 0% it is basically game over. Supply, rare and electronic will do too. So 4 cities and you can put the game into archive. It close to the missing gold Feature: the hand of go(l)d. Instant kill of an enemie unit.

      Second is the unreliabity when it comes to revealing enemie research. When you have spies in multiple countries you get the same result for every country. I contacted Support a hundred times and they said: no error they all research the same...lol...never! if in a good drilled alliance the player dont research the same tech every day.
      Alle sagten: Das geht nicht. Dann kam einer, der wusste das nicht und hat es einfach gemacht.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by kurtvonstein ().

    • The game should try to mirror real life as much as possible, which it generally does.

      Back to Yak’s list at the start…

      - Reward to players for Spies which are caught with counter-ops
      **First, consider some type of false intel, the same could be said for general game play. Deception and camouflage have been part of warfare for millennia, and a spy at some level may be only aware of information that could be false.
      I liked the concept mentioned of spy tiers/levels...it is logical & realistic. IF you have levels, then it makes sense there is a reward for capturing a high level spy, such as: (1) a chance to reveal/capture some other spies in your country, (2) a smaller chance of some intel on the other country (though some intel could be false), and (3) a 1% morale boost across your country for a high-level spy (if revealed publicly).
      Capturing a mid-level spy could (chance) reveal other spies in that city.

      - If one spy is caught, the rest of the spies found in that City have a chance to be caught
      **As stated above, if there are spy levels then a high level spy could (chance) reveal some spies across the country, while a mid-level spy reveals in that city only.

      - Homeland spies and foreign spies should have different prices, and potentially upkeep costs
      **Since this thread started, spies do have different upkeep costs. Different costs is logical, a spy in your home country is cheap, one in another country would cost a lot more. But that could be set via upkeep costs for simplicity.
      There should be an additional cost in <time>, however, for recruiting & training a spy. Maybe 1 day for an internal/counter-ops spy, and 2-4-6 days for a foreign spy with 2 days being a tier/level 1 basic, specific target level, 4 days being a tier 2 city-wide level, and 6 days being a tier 3 strategic/nationwide intel or spy ‘leader’. As stated, the cost for each level varies significantly, and the amount of intel/sabotage/corruption would vary too.

      - Should have upkeep costs relative to the mission that they are on, potentially using other resources
      **Resources beyond $ is not logical. But the amount of $ should be relative to the mission, but that change has since been made.

      Also…
      Spy tiers/levels for foreign spies:
      • Low-level/tier 1 spies focus through intel and sabotage on a specific type of building / military component that you can set. Maybe just finds out # and level of X type of ground, or air, or naval units in that city or province. Not all types.
      • Mid-level/tier 2 spy has connections to/leads tier 1 spies in that city (i.e. when captured there’s a chance tier 1 spies are caught), has intel, sabotage & corruption capabilities, and can harm local/city morale when successful.
      • High-level/tier 3 spies are nationwide leaders of (tier 2 level) spy rings, assigned to a capital. They can get <partial> nationwide intel on troop locations and research levels, and can cause nationwide damage through corruption and by harming morale.


      Stealing $ or resources is not realistic for any tier of spy. You can destroy $ or resources, but not steal or ‘transfer’ it to your country.

      There should be a limit to the type of spy per enemy city (or nation/capital/tier 3) but it should be very high. Like up to 10 level 1 spies per city/province, up to 5 level 2 per city, and up to 3 level 3 spies at an enemy capital. The cost should vary by spy tier/level and not by the mission. Put the foreign spy recruit cost at $5k each but daily upkeep for Tier 1 is $300/day, Tier 2 is $1,500/day, and Tier 3 is $7,500/day.
      The chances of intel/sabotage/corruption increases based on # of spies. Having the max # of spies is basically 100% chance of success while just 1 spy is a fairly low %. As Gen. Grievous said previously “the more agents you add, the higher the probability of success, but each extra agent adds a smaller percentage of success”.

      Moving tier/level 1 or tier 2 spies around an enemy country in particular should take some time. In real life you couldn’t just move a spy across the enemy country and expect instant results.

      There should be a chance that a country discovering a spy won’t find out what country they are from. Tier 1 spy low chance of finding out what country they are spying for while tier 2 & 3 is a slightly higher chance.
      And basically a 0% chance that every other country knows that a spy was caught in country A who was spying for country B, unless maybe it’s a tier 3 spy. Unless you want to reveal that info to the press for morale purposes (which is possible), it’s generally not to your benefit to tell anyone that you caught someone else’s spy. It would ruin the possibility of counter/false intel.

      There should be a very low probability of a spy being caught if there are no counter-ops. Like a 5% chance.

      Internal/counter-ops spies could have same ($5K) recruit cost as foreign spies but upkeep could be low/same as tier 1 foreign spy. Higher level foreign spies should be premium cost.
      There should be no limit to the number of counter-ops spies, or make it really high like 20 per city or something.


      Implementing all of the above would take some development time to be sure, but any improvement to the spy system would be of great value to the game’s realism.
      The biggest change supporting realism is putting a time lag on moving foreign spies around. It should not be instantaneous.
    • Hertenjager wrote:

      The game should try to mirror real life as much as possible, which it generally does.

      Back to Yak’s list at the start…

      - Reward to players for Spies which are caught with counter-ops
      **First, consider some type of false intel, the same could be said for general game play. Deception and camouflage have been part of warfare for millennia, and a spy at some level may be only aware of information that could be false.
      I liked the concept mentioned of spy tiers/levels...it is logical & realistic. IF you have levels, then it makes sense there is a reward for capturing a high level spy, such as: (1) a chance to reveal/capture some other spies in your country, (2) a smaller chance of some intel on the other country (though some intel could be false), and (3) a 1% morale boost across your country for a high-level spy (if revealed publicly).
      Capturing a mid-level spy could (chance) reveal other spies in that city.

      - If one spy is caught, the rest of the spies found in that City have a chance to be caught
      **As stated above, if there are spy levels then a high level spy could (chance) reveal some spies across the country, while a mid-level spy reveals in that city only.

      - Homeland spies and foreign spies should have different prices, and potentially upkeep costs
      **Since this thread started, spies do have different upkeep costs. Different costs is logical, a spy in your home country is cheap, one in another country would cost a lot more. But that could be set via upkeep costs for simplicity.
      There should be an additional cost in <time>, however, for recruiting & training a spy. Maybe 1 day for an internal/counter-ops spy, and 2-4-6 days for a foreign spy with 2 days being a tier/level 1 basic, specific target level, 4 days being a tier 2 city-wide level, and 6 days being a tier 3 strategic/nationwide intel or spy ‘leader’. As stated, the cost for each level varies significantly, and the amount of intel/sabotage/corruption would vary too.

      - Should have upkeep costs relative to the mission that they are on, potentially using other resources
      **Resources beyond $ is not logical. But the amount of $ should be relative to the mission, but that change has since been made.

      Also…
      Spy tiers/levels for foreign spies:
      • Low-level/tier 1 spies focus through intel and sabotage on a specific type of building / military component that you can set. Maybe just finds out # and level of X type of ground, or air, or naval units in that city or province. Not all types.
      • Mid-level/tier 2 spy has connections to/leads tier 1 spies in that city (i.e. when captured there’s a chance tier 1 spies are caught), has intel, sabotage & corruption capabilities, and can harm local/city morale when successful.
      • High-level/tier 3 spies are nationwide leaders of (tier 2 level) spy rings, assigned to a capital. They can get <partial> nationwide intel on troop locations and research levels, and can cause nationwide damage through corruption and by harming morale.


      Stealing $ or resources is not realistic for any tier of spy. You can destroy $ or resources, but not steal or ‘transfer’ it to your country.

      There should be a limit to the type of spy per enemy city (or nation/capital/tier 3) but it should be very high. Like up to 10 level 1 spies per city/province, up to 5 level 2 per city, and up to 3 level 3 spies at an enemy capital. The cost should vary by spy tier/level and not by the mission. Put the foreign spy recruit cost at $5k each but daily upkeep for Tier 1 is $300/day, Tier 2 is $1,500/day, and Tier 3 is $7,500/day.
      The chances of intel/sabotage/corruption increases based on # of spies. Having the max # of spies is basically 100% chance of success while just 1 spy is a fairly low %. As Gen. Grievous said previously “the more agents you add, the higher the probability of success, but each extra agent adds a smaller percentage of success”.

      Moving tier/level 1 or tier 2 spies around an enemy country in particular should take some time. In real life you couldn’t just move a spy across the enemy country and expect instant results.

      There should be a chance that a country discovering a spy won’t find out what country they are from. Tier 1 spy low chance of finding out what country they are spying for while tier 2 & 3 is a slightly higher chance.
      And basically a 0% chance that every other country knows that a spy was caught in country A who was spying for country B, unless maybe it’s a tier 3 spy. Unless you want to reveal that info to the press for morale purposes (which is possible), it’s generally not to your benefit to tell anyone that you caught someone else’s spy. It would ruin the possibility of counter/false intel.

      There should be a very low probability of a spy being caught if there are no counter-ops. Like a 5% chance.

      Internal/counter-ops spies could have same ($5K) recruit cost as foreign spies but upkeep could be low/same as tier 1 foreign spy. Higher level foreign spies should be premium cost.
      There should be no limit to the number of counter-ops spies, or make it really high like 20 per city or something.


      Implementing all of the above would take some development time to be sure, but any improvement to the spy system would be of great value to the game’s realism.
      The biggest change supporting realism is putting a time lag on moving foreign spies around. It should not be instantaneous.
      I like most of that, but this:

      "There should be a chance that a country discovering a spy won’t find out what country they are from. Tier 1 spy low chance of finding out what country they are spying for while tier 2 & 3 is a slightly higher chance.
      And basically a 0% chance that every other country knows that a spy was caught in country A who was spying for country B, unless maybe it’s a tier 3 spy. Unless you want to reveal that info to the press for morale purposes (which is possible), it’s generally not to your benefit to tell anyone that you caught someone else’s spy. It would ruin the possibility of counter/false intel."

      Seems kinda insane. I mean the Tier 3 spy is more highly trained/better than the Tier 1, right. So, there should be less of a chance that they will reveal what country they are spying for than Tier 1, plus, there would be much more security around the Tier 3 spy's "debriefing", so it should be more likely the capture of a Tier 1 spy gets leaked to the News.
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    • Thoughts on spies...

      It would be fun to name your spies like you can for officers.



      I don't think a research tree is the way to go.
      I think a spy should become more useful the longer they've been in a city.
      It seems that if you leave a spy dormant in an enemy city for a long time they should yield better results when put into action and have less chance of getting caught.
      Something like 1 day = 10% success rate... 2 day 20%... etc.... 10 day 95%



      Sabotage should be more specific... when I need a navy base 3 or an arms industry 1 damaged it's always so disappointing to get the report of my spy hitting a recruitment office.



      Spies in capitols/headquarters should report better/broader intel compared to other enemy home cities.
      Every country should start with one counter-ops spy in the capitol... which could be repurposed at the players discretion.
      If everyone had a spy to begin with espionage would be a part of more players general strategy.



      I wish spies could steal research...
      In the real world of espionage this is a common objective.
      It would be amazing to have research theft... to not just get intel of what an enemy is building/researching... but to obtain the research and be able to build from it.
      I'd want this just to be for planes/tanks/ships/etc..... not for personnel unit research (infantries).


      If any of this sounds interesting to anyone I wouldn't mind talking/thinking it out further.
    • Kalrakh wrote:

      Spies are currently pure gamble, they took the system from the predecessor games and did hardly any changes to it (limit of 3 foreign spies per province and stuff)

      The system would need a complete overhaul to be of anything different then a way to dump all your money in end game.
      I mean you're not wrong it is a pure gamble and IMO needs an overhaul.
      However, I have caught players planning attacks on me before, because of intercepted messages.
      And that intel is worth quite a bit.
      Not to mention I will trade friendly countries intel on what their enemies are building in exchange for info etc.
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    • Mother Russia wrote:

      Spies are not fun to fight against, not fun to use, and should be limited to one spy per province.
      lmao no
      you can infinitly stack counterops, what more do you need to fight spies?

      current system is pretty much entirely skewed in favor of intel and counter agents


      and limiting agents from currently 3 to one by province would have to go hand in hand with an appropriate buff to their capabilities

      true, the current system is bad but then again you’re only complaining because appearently someone successfully used a lot of agents against you lmao
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