Isn't modern infantery too good in the late game compared with other infantery units?

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    • Isn't modern infantery too good in the late game compared with other infantery units?

      New

      This my first time writing in the forum, sorry if I am asking something that may looks like pretty obvious.

      In the late game motorised infantery gets morters as you know, in my opinion this gives this infantery a too big advantage again another land group of units, apart from artillery of course, because they always shoot first. I have read many people saying that mechanized infantery or marines are better units that infantery but I dont understand this for 3 reasons:

      1. Modern infantery isnt slower than other infantery units, in fact, is faster than mechanized infantery: so a very active player could defeat pretty easily a big group of tank and mechanized infantery attacking from far away and then running away for a hour to attack again without taking damage: repeating this over and over you can kill without taking damage any land unit group except artillery which is a lot more expensive and less numeorus in any army than modern infantery. So in despite of mechanized infantery having better stadistics than modern infantery it couldnt even touch it.

      2. they has indirect fire of course. So even with not a very active player a group of 8 modern infatery would give the first shot again a group of tank and mechanized infantery, infringing them a good amount of damage.

      3. they are cheaper and need less meintenance. You will need compounts to make another units like planes or ships, so mechanized steal these vital resources.

      The only true advantaje that I see in mechanized infantery is that they fight a lot better again air units bacause of their bigger life points and their stadistics of defense again them but you could just change them for a couple of AA or SAMS doing tha same job better.

      So my questions are: why should I build mechanized infantery instead of modern infantery in the late game? and how do you counter a big group of modern infantery with antiairs without using artillery?

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Frartan117 ().

    • New

      depends on the situation but still why motorized when u can build artillery and defend with ngs? motorized might give u this help if u build no artillery at all. Another point is that before tier 3 he is too weak having bad stats (ng is equivalent or better in defense). The only advantage for me is (they need supplies) this drives me crazy with mechanized I have to go all the way for mrls instead of mobile art. I don't say mechanized is better but mechanized + ngs is better. Also european mechanized is obviously much better than motorized. eastern civ get the range earlier this might be good but I decided to skip on motorized all the time
    • New

      sigh here we go again

      1. upgrading them to that point will waste a ressource slot and rare material
      2. they have no fire control meaning every ranged attack has to be set by hand
      3. their offensive dmg output is still rather low compared to their def dmg --> they're not really suited for that damage dealer role

      about comparing them to mechanized:
      - mechanized has a shitton of more HP
      - has its use primarily in soaking damage for armored units
      - more of an combat inf than motorized

      about countering max lvl inf with AA:
      - artillery
      - helis
      - catching them when they're invading your territory cuz then they have the speeddebuff


      In general i only use infantry to capture stuff or sacrifice them; they're not optimal to actual fight
    • New

      1. I dont know how people use to play but I always try to upgrade to max level the infantery unit that I use more frecuently in the match, so I upgrade machanized or motorised infantery so for me its the same. I dont know if maybe this isnt pretty efficient.

      2. This is right but I dont have premium so for me is the same.

      3. You are right here but if they cant caught you because of you faster moving it isnt a thing, but you told me something that I didnt know until a few days: When a unit is in enemy territory it goes slower so you can catch very active player when they are running so attacking big provinces they are worse units than mechanized I didnt realise of this until now thank you. Still I think they are better defending if you are a very active player and your country inst amall and attacking big group of units in cities if you habe behind a pronvince that was taken from you. Also they can be still better attacking small enemy provinces because you can escape to a owned province before they catch.

      With antiairs unit I meant mobile antiair so helis are neither a good counter. I already know artillery, so if you are attaking a country (not defending yourself from Modern infantery and AA) the only counter that this group have is artillery units. For me this is too OP.
    • New

      Frartan117 wrote:

      With antiairs unit I meant mobile antiair so helis are neither a good counter. I already know artillery, so if you are attaking a country (not defending yourself from Modern infantery and AA) the only counter that this group have is artillery units. For me this is too OP.
      a mixed stack of helis still does pretty well against AA after all AA will also recieve most of the dmg dealt thus going down first; considering we now even have season helis you can mix even more
      also its worth to note that the motorized gets that upgrade really really late into the game
    • New

      Teburu wrote:

      Frartan117 wrote:

      With antiairs unit I meant mobile antiair so helis are neither a good counter. I already know artillery, so if you are attaking a country (not defending yourself from Modern infantery and AA) the only counter that this group have is artillery units. For me this is too OP.
      a mixed stack of helis still does pretty well against AA after all AA will also recieve most of the dmg dealt thus going down first; considering we now even have season helis you can mix even morealso its worth to note that the motorized gets that upgrade really really late into the game
      You are right, helicopters can do a lot of damage.

      abdul_the_brave wrote:

      another point to consider many motorized upgrades doesn't add that much to him.If I research motorized I don't think of upgrading it after lvl 2 except when the range is available but then again why not artillery instead? also it has quite long upgrade line(may be cheap but long).
      Artillery makes a better rol, but everybody has one predilected infantery unit that has to be build in big amounts to defend and take cities in any each match, so I usually prefer motorised infantery for the range bonus, I also build artillery.
    • New

      As has been said, my particular counter to high level infantry spam is artillery. Maximally upgraded MRLS does more damage than infantry at nearly four times the range and has similar hp. In addition to that, helicopter gunships and strike fighters obliterate weak mot inf. The ranged attack is essentially just there to punish anyone who doesn't use sufficient artillery and to provide a siege buff because mot inf is very weak. It is not a capable combat unit.
    • New

      abdul_the_brave wrote:

      sac the range bonus as u have artillery and as mentioned by teburu don't make the infantry do the actual fighting and boom ng does every thing else
      agree ... I use starting inf units and may build a few to hold front line if need be (advance of line is strike squads to plow the road)... but end up with way more NGs. It aint se-xy (cant believe se-xy is censored lol) or intimidating but can build almost 3 to 1 per day nd by lvl 4 -5 just as good holding cities. Just finishing Blood and Oil and have 81 units on day 21 (people ask how do you get such a large force.. well i dont lose them!!) have ally who built and lost more than I have and a 10th of territory as consistently sent under sized stacks on suicide mission) I never attack what I know (well 95 pct) that I can easily defeat. I think only lost 1 air supp fighter (miscalculation); 1 or 2 airstrike (laziness leaving patrolling were shouldnt have). Handful of Inf early on. But dont expect to win this game with any infantry period. One game had stacker with 8 mech lvl 6 thought he was invincible.. landed at my ports witch I stuffed with max stack NG to hold off and Bombed him with strike fighters while frigs either sunk landing parties or helped chip away. Dude lost like 21 units in a day and didnt understand why...simple math. yeah I lost a good chunk of NGs but can replace 3 times as fast.

      Most would laugh at my ground mix: (but 90 pct of kills with planes or ships and not inf; even my relative light armor was stacked up but never needed as took out threats ahead of them).

      30 NG (lv 5)
      14 mot inf (lv 5 and most original)
      4 AFV (lv 2 as they give no perks till can fly) * most ever had but needed in desert
      3 mobile AA
      2 marines (needed for several Victory sites but faily useless since)
      1 RCV (oroginal)
      1 Mob Art (regretted that research as been dragging this slow shit all over map and have like 1 kill)

      Now Airforce:

      15 Strike fighters (lvl 5 - max as of today ) - stopped building as switched over to building cruise missiles. so hit armor with CM and clean up inf with 7 hp x 5 = 35 hp strikes. Note CM cut into research quite abit so need to have economy humming and/or most research done first. Ended up not being worth the investment this game but if went another week my life would be a lot easier.

      3 Air Supp (had 4 early and lost one - early game stack and use as poor mans strike till can get strikes going). later use 1 air supp/ 4 strike to beef air defense and absorb damage.

      Navy: (was light this game early on as alot of ground to cover in desert that ships useless) but had enough to take out India Frigates; which allowed strike fighters to come in)

      4 Friggs ( use to shield coasts from enemy planes ; once navy defeated escort landing parties to weaken port and provide cover)
      3 Corvettes (Port defense and add HP stuffing for bigger battles when needed). Normally have way more Friggs but the components for strike and AFV were cutting into plans.

      Finished way late and no impact on game:
      1 Attack sub ( wasnt worth research but thought India might have subs)
      1 Ballistic Sub (like this mid late game to take out /damage enemy cities) mobile and easy to protect with 1000 range. Ended up needing as map about done. fired across to sweden just because you have to fire a toy that took that long to get.
      3 Air supp

      Only lose troops or get into a war of attrition if on defense (always let them attack you) ... defense will win majority of engagements unless overwhelmingly over matched. Bait them into coming at you. Pick the terrain that favors you/disfavors them and build buker and/or or outposts and wait. If the have tanks and Inf .. wait in the mtns ... they get big bonus attack penalties. Everyone wants to rush to meet an opponent or attack without considering the stack mix and bonuses which actually decides battle.
    • New

      never enough strikes .. and said only had Air supp (dont research above lvl1) early on till got strikes. early game 4 air supp can bomb single units and its all relative early on (if you only have rocks my slingshot is an advanced weapon). 3 full squads of strike you control the battlefield (can dish out 5 x 7 hp to both hard or soft per stack times 3 .. thats 105 HP per 1 hr (2 max if on edge of range) that I can move anywhere 750-900 miles. Then if waiting for cities to reach 34 pct. split off in 2 per city (cover 7 cities) to suppress any Insurgents that pop up. lets you keep less troops in cities and keep moving. In between battles go back to a regional lvl 3 hospital (15 x 4 hp = 60 HP recharge and generally get back to 100pct so down loose anything). If Enemy has Air supp I still have some Air supp fighters to sacrifice or scare off any enemy strike fighters.

      Name me another set of units that can deliver 100 hp damage against hard and soft equally in an hr given battle with taking minimal damage. and if they have heavy AA or Air supp than pull back. About half the cost of a tank and I can escape AA or tanks they cant escape Strike.

      And reason do both is keep limited # of Unit types: Typical mot Inf / NG/ strike / Friggs other stuff complimentary based on area or likely big enemies. later will get Navy officer and lately like Ballistic subs (conventional) as can damage at distance and demoralize an enemy.

      Choppers are too slow ; no air defense and less range. Can take out 9 choppers in short order or just go bomb their airbase and ground them then bomb them. mobile AA is a nuisance and not deterant to a 5 stack strike squad (4.5 hp vs the 35 I am delivering). SAMs yeah will steer clear thus when break out the Cruise missiles to take it out. This requires a sacrificial lamb (ie my spare Air supp lvl 1 ) fly it in .. AA fires and dead in water for 10 min while you lob in some CM's. Biggest threat to Air is a stacked of Friggs that didnt anticipate and fly into air envelope.

      Tanks are early shock and awe but unless stacked with 6 or so lvl 5 inf .. can be cracked easy. a lot of heavy armor stackers think armor is invisible and with have only 1 inf in stack just to conquer. Another reason research Inf. By level 5 inf you are doing think 1.6 air damage. so a stack of 6 the inf is doing 9.6 or 2 mob AA or 1 sam worth damage to enemy air per attack.
    • New

      also when I upgrade research .. look at impact of # of units. Like early i have more inf than other units .. so when upgrade HP im doing it to a realtive # of units (best bang for buck at the time). Same with air im not going to adv research 3 - 4 units if no plans to build more. But with 15 strikes... when add 1- 2 HP basically getting a planes worth of damage for free (basically pays for itself). But in general i keep current on max research available for the units i use and plan to keep building (exception as just start off with so many).

      Day 4 if we battle and neither have gotten advanced weapons:

      Me 15 inf x 4hp = 60 hp offense / 5hp - 75 total def vs you 3hp = 45 tot off/ 3.8 = 57 tot def (assume any bones a wash) .. 1 research has basically given me 25 pct more force than you. that required no infrastructure or units built.

      I know you will say well your 2 - 3 choppers you built will wipe out... but meanwhile I have same amount 3 or 4 air supp to destroy them and/or very least make them return home. air supp is rock to choppers scissors.... AA is rock to air supp scissors but no one really has day 4.

      Next level Inf research you get like a 1 HP air dame boost x 15 (equivalent of 4 AA units worth of damage and helpful later in stacks with armor)

      So early on you want the most rocks that will smash the most likely scissors while avoiding any slim chances of paper. and if going rock v rock my rock (inf) is 25 pct better than yours with 1 research.
    • New

      abdul_the_brave wrote:

      yes strike fighters are too good but what will you do vs sam + artillery for instance (very common combo).
      Send in a sacrificial lamb (usually air supp) to draw SAM fire and then bomb and escape with max stack of strikes (I hve 3 full stacks now right) so thats 35 hp x 3 = 105 hp damage and just have to sacrifice 1 air supp fighter... then skies are clear. Only thing that really stops Air Strike is adv Air air supp in equal #'s. then have to get creative and go after their basis and play a little chess.
    • New

      yes strike has an excellent research line and I usually with germany have 10 or 9 before second tier but I can't build more as tier 2 is very costy and it takes quite a tiem to reach tier 3.
      I prefer mechanized/ng combo as ng and motorized are equivalent.
      Also no aa is not very suitable vs attack choppers. they deal more damage to tanks than he does to choppers.
      A famous stack that I have just met 2 sama + 2 aa + 3 mrls + 1/2 mechanized.
      I argue that u need either attack choppers or ballistic or a stack of more artillery to defeat it. and that strikes will be useless.
    • New

      abdul_the_brave wrote:

      yes strike has an excellent research line and I usually with germany have 10 or 9 before second tier but I can't build more as tier 2 is very costy and it takes quite a tiem to reach tier 3.
      I prefer mechanized/ng combo as ng and motorized are equivalent.
      Also no aa is not very suitable vs attack choppers. they deal more damage to tanks than he does to choppers.
      A famous stack that I have just met 2 sama + 2 aa + 3 mrls + 1/2 mechanized.
      I argue that u need either attack choppers or ballistic or a stack of more artillery to defeat it. and that strikes will be useless.
      not if you send 1 plane to have sams fire.. then hit hard with all rest of squads. or do same thing with cruise missiles ideally. only time ran into huge stack of 9 mrls and dude had air supp so i patrolled off coast with my friggs to stop his air supp from coming just incase. let hime come to me as he didnt even know i was still there and probably assumed i bugged out. luckily was apocolyse map so had missiles researched early as possible. first time ever launched nukes. send in a decoy to have and AA fire then lobbed in 2 nuke CMs which pck decent punch. but even 2 conv would do 60 hp hard damage. just need to use tactics and patience and not brute force. I didnt get them all but hurt him that he turned around. but why they allow 9 MRL stack is beyond me .. was doing like 70 hp damage at 75 miles ;(

      Ballistics against stacks are tough unless catch them sleeping. But have hit like that a few times with sub close to shore but takes precision timing to target arrival at a prov when he is within blast range as cant target directly and very tricky and touch to hit a target on the move.

      Most stacks / units can be countered with tactics. And yes strikes can too but have much more flexibility to choose where/how i battle compared to ground troops.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Buckeyechamp ().