Troops that nobody Mobilizes

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    • Troops that nobody Mobilizes

      Troops that i dont see people using/bothering to upgrade with. Keep in mind i am still kinda new and i have a limited view of this okay? Feel free to add on

      1- Towed artillery. The one you get at the start is pretty nice imma be honest, often use it to blast insurgents and early game troops. Kinda useless later game and everyone just uses rocket launchers anyway.

      2-National Guard UPGRADED PAST LEVEL 2. ng's are really nice to pad up the hp of a division but sort of useless afterwards. They suck even if u bother to upgrade them to max and that research spot could be used for other things anyway.

      3-Combat recon. The starter ones are nice but nobody bothers to research them generally. If you want armored stuff just get armored fighting vehicles or tanks its much better anyway.

      4- Amphibious combat tanks. People just dont seem to use them. dunno why but ppl dont use them. Then again you might as well just focus on the navy.

      5-Mobile radar. Just use the damn uav instead. It reveals all and what type/how many of each troop there are, or use the AWACS for much better radar range. Not worth it in general.

      6-Heavy bomber. By the time you have the air base to mobilize it your strike fighters can probably do better than it anyway.
    • EPICNOOB2.0 wrote:

      Troops that i dont see people using/bothering to upgrade with. Keep in mind i am still kinda new and i have a limited view of this okay? Feel free to add on

      1- Towed artillery. The one you get at the start is pretty nice imma be honest, often use it to blast insurgents and early game troops. Kinda useless later game and everyone just uses rocket launchers anyway.

      2-National Guard UPGRADED PAST LEVEL 2. ng's are really nice to pad up the hp of a division but sort of useless afterwards. They suck even if u bother to upgrade them to max and that research spot could be used for other things anyway.

      3-Combat recon. The starter ones are nice but nobody bothers to research them generally. If you want armored stuff just get armored fighting vehicles or tanks its much better anyway.

      4- Amphibious combat tanks. People just dont seem to use them. dunno why but ppl dont use them. Then again you might as well just focus on the navy.

      5-Mobile radar. Just use the damn uav instead. It reveals all and what type/how many of each troop there are, or use the AWACS for much better radar range. Not worth it in general.

      6-Heavy bomber. By the time you have the air base to mobilize it your strike fighters can probably do better than it anyway.
      1. Towed Artillery: Errr yeah nobody creates those, but my Towed Artillery over all my games has destroyed at least 50 units :)

      2. NG Past lv. 2: see the relatively large number of people in forums who invest in NGs.

      3. CRV: I do actually see those from time to time: those are usually the newbies.

      4. ACV: Somebody was creating them apparently, but yeah.

      5. Mobile radar: My ally in my most successful game created them. They’re quite useful for scouting enemy positions, and people have commented on the AWACS + Bomber combo, which can be implemented the same way with Mobile Radar replacing AWACS.

      6. Heavy bomber: see above. I saw one really good coalition which utilized Bomber + AA and it really killed us, the bombers just kept killing our buildings.

      In reality, every unit has its (often unique/specialized) purpose, and it’s rare that people don’t produce that unit. So it’s better for the thread to be renamed: units that are rarely produced.
      As for my opinion on rarely produced units:
      1. SAS
      2. CRV
      3. ACV
      4. Towed Artillery
      5. Theatre Defense System (although I would expect it to be pretty common in Apocalypse considering all the missiles flying around)
      6. ASW Helicopter
      7. Stealth Strike Fighter
      8. Naval Patrol Craft
      1. Towed Artillery: this is certainly rarely mobilized because of its general weakness; it has low hp and mostly does damage to the already easy to kill infantry. It’s definitely an early game unit however, and is of excellent utility there, where the range advantage and general power at that level is an immense advantage, as well as later on as a legacy unit filling the “workhorse” role to supplement various operations as necessary.
      2. National Guard: Indeed, several strong players, especially on the forums, make excellent use of national guard. Although a weak unit individually, they are incredibly cheap and are the consummation of the pure infantry ideal: cheap, fast, and flexible, they can conquer territory, defend decently, and are easily disposable. As such, their use should definitely be restricted to these roles of defending, capturing, and padding while being kept out of the action as an arm of decision.
      3. CRV: This unit is another great starting unit for early game that largely loses its utility mid-late game. This is because it is an armored “jack-of all-trades, master of none” unit, and its terrain modifiers show this. It gets no debuffs anywhere, but it doesn’t get any buffs anywhere. Early game, it’s advantage comes from simply being armor; mid-late game, there’s a lot of armor. At max level, it’s skills are: terrain, scouting, air assault, infantry damage, armored. It excels in no Terrain, so anything counters it in that respect, ACVs, SF Inf, and UAVs can already scout, SF Inf and TDs can air assault, AFVs have much stronger infantry damage, and much of the units by then are armored. Therefore, it is consummately inferior in direct comparison, relegated it to an early game role due to its overly broad and unspecialized skillset.
      4. ACV: This Unit I actually employ frequently as Western or European doctrine; it is essentially everything the CRV tries to be but better. It’s good in most terrain, with actual buffs in some and little to no debuffs in the others, it can scout, it has excellent infantry damage superior to the CRV, and is armored with significantly more HP than the CRV. It doesn’t need to air assault because not only can SF Inf and TDs already do that, but it can make amphibious landings. The ACV is a real “jack-of-all-trades master of many” unit, excelling in terrain, damage, scouting, armor, and mobility without sacrificing excellence in each area for irrelevant skills. I primarily utilize it as a key capability enabling element of my major divisions to provide them with these essential services. I would liken them to the naval or stealth aircraft variants, but with even more benefits. What more could you ask for?
      5. Mobile Radar: I use these frequently in order to significantly augment my target acquisition capabilities, identifying contacts for investigation by my specialized reconnaissance assets. It is considerably cheaper than AWACS and consistently more survivable, enabling proliferation with an element in every one of my major divisions due to this. They provide advance warning at an affordable cost with flexibility and survivability as well.
      6. Heavy Bomber: This is definitely a niche unit, but when that function is required, it fulfills it excellently. Heavy Bombers do a superb job of both killing enemy infantry and buildings; these can be extremely useful when attempting to deny key infrastructure to the enemy, such as an airbase that they are flying strikes out of, or when destroying enemy infantry such as rogues, especially those far behind the frontlines. Consider them a sort of significantly range extended gunships, but with much better building damage. Their primary drawback is their cost and required production investment, thus lowering their overall value per unit when research, development, infrastructure, and production is considered, but when that niche is large enough and enough of these bombers are produced, the effect on the enemy can be devastating.
      Overall, the popularity of these units depends on play style and situation, and they should be employed in order to facilitate the flexible application of combat power as necessary to reach the decisive action by maximizing their effectiveness through optimization of utility by leveraging their specialities to exploit available opportunities and advantages.
    • EPICNOOB2.0 wrote:

      Troops that i dont see people using/bothering to upgrade with. Keep in mind i am still kinda new and i have a limited view of this okay? Feel free to add on

      1- Towed artillery. The one you get at the start is pretty nice imma be honest, often use it to blast insurgents and early game troops. Kinda useless later game and everyone just uses rocket launchers anyway.

      2-National Guard UPGRADED PAST LEVEL 2. ng's are really nice to pad up the hp of a division but sort of useless afterwards. They suck even if u bother to upgrade them to max and that research spot could be used for other things anyway.

      3-Combat recon. The starter ones are nice but nobody bothers to research them generally. If you want armored stuff just get armored fighting vehicles or tanks its much better anyway.

      4- Amphibious combat tanks. People just dont seem to use them. dunno why but ppl dont use them. Then again you might as well just focus on the navy.

      5-Mobile radar. Just use the damn uav instead. It reveals all and what type/how many of each troop there are, or use the AWACS for much better radar range. Not worth it in general.

      6-Heavy bomber. By the time you have the air base to mobilize it your strike fighters can probably do better than it anyway.
      1- yes nobody does except in rare cases for the airlift so no.
      2-u gotta be kidding I always max mu ng he gets very VERY good research line with much improvement he gets much better He also get some tank defense and incredible speed Usually He is the only unit I max
      3-yes but I have seen some utilizes them to get very strong start defended by coalition members(he knew from the start) and they got very good push. for me I might research them lvl 1 in very aggressive early games.
      4-idk what are you taking about this is a very good unit that I usually research as western dictorain and have seen it a lot in publics.
      5- Well its used extensively while I don't like it It's very common especially after the last infantry update. Its very useful also cheap also tank buffer.

      6- yes rare to see.
    • 1. im a fan of towed and its great in publics when you just need artillery for the sake of artillery, high survivability + airassault is fun
      2. well usually lvl 3 for the speed :D but yeah high lvl ng isnt worth it
      3. they're great for early rushes; and now with radar changes might also become necessary to protect your stacks from specops
      that being said i see every now and then ppl use it
      4. true; rarely see them
      5. are you kidding? :D
      6. every now and then i see ppl use them; more often than 4.

      conclusion: Topic should be called troops-that-i dont mobilize-because-I-dont-understand-how-to-use-them
      I am the basline for opinions
    • 1) Sadly, Air assault builds consume far to much supply and also they suffered hard during the artillery rework

      2) I still prefer Motorized, but I never research them above level 3 either

      3) I don't do early rushs, so yes I do not care that much about them.

      4) I hardly build any armor in general.

      5) I use them pretty much always, even more after the radar rework.

      6) I prefer helicopters in general.
    • As is par for the course, I'm probably a bit of an odd duck here, but that's probably because I sometimes make a point of being. Regardless, I think that part of what you're noticing here is that some of these are just more naturally "early game units" (relatively quick and cheap to make, but not the strongest individual units on the battlefied). I'm not arguing with your observation (I don't think), but I'll give you my individual impression on each because I think it probably differs from a lot of people's:

      1) I think these are underused and under-appreciated. You mentioned them not comparing well against MRLs. Well,... hahaha,... yeah, man. They're also available from the start and a lot cheaper. They're an early game unit. You're not supposed to be relying on them on Day 40, brother. Anyway, I build them sometimes. In my opinion, if you're playing a nation with mountainous borders and eastern doctrine (Serbia, Afghanistan, India, Vietnam, Nepal, etc.) and you are not using these early in the game, you are doing yourself a disservice. +20% damage against armored plus ranged plus mountain bonus? Yes, please. Oh, also, they provide a little bit of coastal defense against ships, especially if you have mountainous coastal provinces. They're not intended to be hauled around with your stacks. Make a few and park them in the mountains in your country, and let them add to your border defense.

      (Bonus note: writing this part made me want to play as Serbia and make a bunch of towed arty).


      2) I am not a NG nut, but some people are. I definitely would not call them under/rarely used. I'm noticing a pattern here, though. The first two units you mentioned are, in my mind, best used defensively (NG gets a huge defense bonus in cities), and not many people play defensively (but they don't hesitate to complain about what should be a defensive nation being too difficult for them to play). NG are another early game unit in that you can pump them out fast and cheap, but you probably don't want them standing alone in the middle of a battlefield on Day 40. NG are also great for swarming. Want to chew up a lot of open ground in a way that takes WAY too much time and attention to stop? Release the NGs! Meeeeeyooooowmmmmm. They're like gnats. Like I said, some folks use NGs like crazy, so you're better off listening to them than me, but I have been using them lately with Western Doctrine and when I'm starting out in a position where I know I'm going to need to do a lot of homeland city defending early in the game.

      3) I'm not really an armor guy, so there are games when these are the only/primary armor I make. Again, you're talking about a unit that's intended to function as an early game unit. You can't really expect them to compare to something like a MBT. They have a 30 minute research time for Level 1 and are always available on Day 1. These are to give you a little more beef than infantry in the early, early days. Oh, PLUS they can be transported by air without any research upgrade. That's helpful sometimes; do you know how long it takes to get MBTs to the other side of Russia? This is like the above two: You're right, no one's going to make an End Game army of these, but that's because that's not really what they're for.

      4) Ahhhhh, here we go. By random chance, I've been playing a lot of Western Doctrine lately. You know what Western Doctrine LOVES? Western Doctrine loves Marines and ACVs like a fat kid loves cake. And you know what Marines + ACVs makes? Amphib vehicles. You're right that people do not use these very often. That's a shame for those playing Western Doc, in my opinion. I just took over three relatively-well defended countries in a row in one game because everyone only ever guards ports. I don't even have a good answer for how to defend against surprise invasion by these maniacs. Trust me, Play a Western Doc country, build and level up some Marines, stack them with amphib vehicles, and go wreak you some serious havoc.

      5) Yeah, not many people do (although some people do). I am one of the people who don't. However, the recent change to radar SHOULD make these little fellas more useful. I HATE not being able to pick up infantry units and helos from afar. AWACS require a Level 4 airfield, you still have to upgrade them, they are big, they are slow, and people LOVE to shoot them down. I'm not saying AWACS are bad. I use them and love them. But, mobile radar isn't really a fair comparison. Want a little radar to ride around with your stack? Mobile radar. They're not a game changer, I agree, and that's why you're right that people don't use them terribly offten.

      6) It is your lucky day, sir, because you are talking to the Big Bad Bomber Daddy. I make bombers daily and nightly and ever so rightly. I literally make bombers every single game. EVERY. SINGLE. GAME. Why? Because I can't get enough of wiping out buildings. It's like Christmas every time I see bricks fly. Bombers, my friend, are death from above. That's only half the story, though. You know what else bombers do? MISSILES!! Oh, MAN, I love me some cruise missiles. Bombers have great range (by air, of course) and you can put them in a patrol in a "safe-ish" area while you let the missile puppies loose. Park a stack of bombers off the coast and unleash 10 cruise missiles on an unsuspecting city? PLEASE, son. My bombers aren't even there anymore by the time my cruise missiles have turned your Air Base into rubble. Guess whose fighters can't take off now. And STEALTH BOMBERS? Don't even get me started. Sure, they're a different aircraft, but you need Heavy Bombers to get to them.

      Late message disclaimer: I'm no pro at the game, but I do pretty well in your average public game. So, am I using my Heavy Bombers and Amphib Vehicles to take down the best players in the best Alliances in the game? I'm not. Am I using them to absolutely hurt some feelings in this or that random public game? I totally am.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by PerigeeNil ().

    • *I should have mentioned that i like to play apocalypse with all the research available at once. Nevertheless i didnt notice the towed artillery thing with the mountain dmg buff. I should try the amphib thing tho, sounds pretty good. Also can the ng nut here explain to me how good ng's are? Probably because i have a bad habit of rushing the fk out of ppl as soon as i get decent shit.
    • Okay, yeah, so Apocalypse is going to (as it appears it has) skew your view on the usefulness of "early game" units, especially if you use gold to research/develop, buy resources, speed up time, etc. That's just because the normal benefit of those units is that you can build them quickly/early and they are cheap. If you (or your opponents) eliminate the time and cost factors, then those units stop making as much sense.
    • Hey, one other quick note on amphib gameplay: Remember that you can also "hide" an all amphib force in unexpected locations (i.e. islands without ports). I'm currently launching an amphib attack on the northern end of the UK from Faroe Island. The UK defenses are thinner up there because they don't expect an attack to come from out in that part of the sea. Depending on your map, the same may be true of the Mediterranean islands, Caribbean islands, islands off the coast of west Africa, South Pacific islands, etc. It's just another small aspect of the amphib quality that you can take advantage of (launching an attack from an unexpected location).
    • PerigeeNil wrote:

      Hey, one other quick note on amphib gameplay: Remember that you can also "hide" an all amphib force in unexpected locations (i.e. islands without ports). I'm currently launching an amphib attack on the northern end of the UK from Faroe Island. The UK defenses are thinner up there because they don't expect an attack to come from out in that part of the sea. Depending on your map, the same may be true of the Mediterranean islands, Caribbean islands, islands off the coast of west Africa, South Pacific islands, etc. It's just another small aspect of the amphib quality that you can take advantage of (launching an attack from an unexpected location).

      yes they will also sustain much more damage than simply marines giving u time to build a port/airport
    • EPICNOOB2.0 wrote:

      I think the reason i dont bother w/ high level ng's is because i like to rush the fk out of the enemy. Dont ask, personal playstyle. Ng's are cheap tho i must say. Btw i dont use gold im poor. Dont even have a security council subscription :(
      Well, I just started using them, and ngs are actually excellent for early rushes, since they can be mobilized so cheaply and rapidly. I’ve been using them to fortify border towns in economy of force efforts while my primary combat power is focused elsewhere. I also don’t use much gold or have a sec council either; I do it mostly for the challenge.
    • Stratieon wrote:

      EPICNOOB2.0 wrote:

      I think the reason i dont bother w/ high level ng's is because i like to rush the fk out of the enemy. Dont ask, personal playstyle. Ng's are cheap tho i must say. Btw i dont use gold im poor. Dont even have a security council subscription :(
      Well, I just started using them, and ngs are actually excellent for early rushes, since they can be mobilized so cheaply and rapidly. I’ve been using them to fortify border towns in economy of force efforts while my primary combat power is focused elsewhere.
      This.
    • EPICNOOB2.0 wrote:

      Troops that i dont see people using/bothering to upgrade with. Keep in mind i am still kinda new and i have a limited view of this okay? Feel free to add on

      1- Towed artillery. The one you get at the start is pretty nice imma be honest, often use it to blast insurgents and early game troops. Kinda useless later game and everyone just uses rocket launchers anyway.

      2-National Guard UPGRADED PAST LEVEL 2. ng's are really nice to pad up the hp of a division but sort of useless afterwards. They suck even if u bother to upgrade them to max and that research spot could be used for other things anyway.

      3-Combat recon. The starter ones are nice but nobody bothers to research them generally. If you want armored stuff just get armored fighting vehicles or tanks its much better anyway.

      4- Amphibious combat tanks. People just dont seem to use them. dunno why but ppl dont use them. Then again you might as well just focus on the navy.

      5-Mobile radar. Just use the damn uav instead. It reveals all and what type/how many of each troop there are, or use the AWACS for much better radar range. Not worth it in general.

      6-Heavy bomber. By the time you have the air base to mobilize it your strike fighters can probably do better than it anyway.
      You are right about everything except heavy bombers,they were my favorite unit once and I have started using them again to destroy enemy airbases and launch missiles,also very effective against infantory if researched well.Long range is an additional bonus.