Troops that nobody Mobilizes

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    • localexperts wrote:

      I have won entire world maps with 1) Towed Artillery and 2) National Guard. The best players don't build the following:

      1) Main Battle Tanks - the clear indicator of a novice player. No air defense. Slow. Penalities in Cities and Suburbs and other areas. Slow. Easily to destroy. People who have main battle tanks in cities or in European - I now they are going to lose.

      2) Bombers - worthless. completely, uterly worthless. AS fighters and AA will pick them off easily and destroying city buildings is not worth the price
      You couldn't be more wrong on bombers. advance them to stealth and you rule the world. I once crushed a 5 member coalition that was the biggest in the world and 3 of 5 bigger than me by myself by pounding down their homeland cities so they couldn't build anything after I had wiped their airports from the map.
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    • localexperts wrote:

      Pafufu wrote:

      titankiller11 wrote:

      ASW heli lets be honest those are not useful
      Well, they can be against the new elite sub, considering that it is far more effective in coastal waters, enabling local airfields to be able to launch them. However, I haven’t seen these in a very long time, so we could add them to the list of units nobody mobilizes.
      unless the elite sub fires or is in a battle. they are stealth. Yes, ASW Helos can get them if they are in the right place. Right now. But if you do your navy right, you should have more than enough firepower to render these waste of time to research, mobalize, and wait for the right moment they can be effective.
      You should call yourself "localinexpert" I've wiped out more than 1 navy using hit and run with a wolfpack of elite subs.
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    • I've wiped out more than 1 navy using hit and run with a wolfpack of elite sub

      So have I, what does that have to do with ASW helos being a waste of time.Stealth bombers. Great unless i have stealth detection technology and then they are equally worthless. Not a single player with a good record ever uses bombers. If they do, I know they don't know what they are doing and I can easily defeat them.

      And elite subs. Have them fire with 2-3 task forces in range. The second and third task forces not targeted will see them and fire on them. This includes ASW if they are in rage and the elite sub fires on another target. Or if they are set to aggressive and begin an engagment with another target that last a couple hours.

      Great you used bombers in a public games against a coalition that didn't know what they were doing. Doesn't mean anything vs an experienced player that knows how to play air.

      The post was edited 6 times, last by localexperts ().

    • lmao calling helis useless

      Helos....

      I said they are almost worthless. Helos are toast when fighters or AA are around. And they are so slow and have such a limited range you will need airport every couple hours being constructed if you are advancing quickly. You will simply outkick the coverage.

      You are member of PK. If you hadn't stopped playing challenges, you would have gotten them handed to you on a platter as dead units when playing us.

      I notice you offer no comment why they are so great, other than general editoral. Counter my comment. Helos vs Planes or AA, what happens. What happens when both are all over the map? How do helos operate in that environment.

      Lets look at your record. 125 Helos defeated and 211 Helos lost. That is a ringing endorsement for helos. Almost 2 lost for every one victory.

      The post was edited 3 times, last by localexperts ().

    • localexperts wrote:

      I notice you offer no comment why they are so great, other than general editoral. Counter my comment. Helos vs Planes or AA, what happens. What happens when both are all over the map? How do helos operate in that environment.
      because it's been more then sufficiently covered in the other threads?

      and stats are a bit pathetic to try and justify an argument with (especially unit type ones) ^^
      I am The Baseline for opinions
    • I have tried to use helos. Know Ace. Know Temu former from TLL now BFM. Learned from the best in the air game. Never seen a top air player use helos with success. I know leaders who are in love with them for their multiplier. But when they get killed on the battlefield after a single pass, fall out of love with them.

      Stats, people who say that want their own subjective decision making to override the facts. I can look at stats and predictions of how that play will do have always been spot on. But lets say you are right,

      FIne....

      Well the fact is when a 5 stack of helos faces and 5 stack of AS fighter level 4 who wins?
      When a 5 stack of helos faces a 5 stack of strikers level 4 who wins?
      When a 5 stack of helos faces a 5 stack of AA level 4, who wins?

      I know, I know wins or loses, are a bit pathetic to try and justify an argument with (especially unit type ones)
    • localexperts wrote:

      Pafufu wrote:

      titankiller11 wrote:

      ASW heli lets be honest those are not useful
      Well, they can be against the new elite sub, considering that it is far more effective in coastal waters, enabling local airfields to be able to launch them. However, I haven’t seen these in a very long time, so we could add them to the list of units nobody mobilizes.
      unless the elite sub fires or is in a battle. they are stealth. Yes, ASW Helos can get them if they are in the right place. Right now. But if you do your navy right, you should have more than enough firepower to render these waste of time to research, mobalize, and wait for the right moment they can be effective.
      Should. Not necessarily have. You overestimate the countermeasure capability of units against the ASW heli, considering that frigates can’t do meaningful damage against them. Plus, they reveal stealth submarines.

      That being said you correctly point out that they have a very limited role.
    • localexperts wrote:

      I have tried to use helos. Know Ace. Know Temu former from TLL now BFM. Learned from the best in the air game. Never seen a top air player use helos with success. I know leaders who are in love with them for their multiplier. But when they get killed on the battlefield after a single pass, fall out of love with them.

      Stats, people who say that want their own subjective decision making to override the facts. I can look at stats and predictions of how that play will do have always been spot on. But lets say you are right,

      FIne....

      Well the fact is when a 5 stack of helos faces and 5 stack of AS fighter level 4 who wins?
      When a 5 stack of helos faces a 5 stack of strikers level 4 who wins?
      When a 5 stack of helos faces a 5 stack of AA level 4, who wins?

      I know, I know wins or loses, are a bit pathetic to try and justify an argument with (especially unit type ones)
      You know, if your playing helis you should ALWAYS have air superiority. Always, always, always, so this isn’t accurate if you use helis properly.

      I concur that helis, in most situations, in my opinion, are inferior to strike fighters. However they are far from useless and many good players (@kurtvonstein) use them.
    • I didn't say helos were useless. I said they had severe limitations that made them partially useless based on situations you specified and partially valuable based on scenarios you point out.

      For a newbie, they are hardly, the first units I gain experience with to learn the game. Partially useless are for advanced players who know the scenarios you would deploy and the strengths and weaknesses of execution.
    • forum.conflictnations.com/inde…s%2Bvs%2Bhelis&#post40052

      Thanks for posting a link comparing helos and strikers and in a very long drawn out discussion support my conclusions that helos have severe limitations and are therefore partially useless depending on the skill of the player, the situation, and the battlefield which it is being employed

      As said in the thread nobs use planes, experts use helos.

      That is gross over simplification, but I would adjust to say

      Nobs don't know when to use helos, it takes an expert to understand when they add value and when they are a liability.
    • localexperts wrote:

      The best players don't build the following:

      1) Main Battle Tanks - the clear indicator of a novice player. No air defense. Slow. Penalities in Cities and Suburbs and other areas. Slow. Easily to destroy. People who have main battle tanks in cities or in European - I now they are going to lose.

      2) Bombers - worthless. completely, uterly worthless. AS fighters and AA will pick them off easily and destroying city buildings is not worth the price
      Completely agreed. The bombers main redeeming quality, its long range strike capability, is completely useless due to the lack of air superiority. It is slow, easily countered and requires expensive buildings as well.

      Stealth bombers are an interesting unit, however. I haven’t ever fielded them, though, so I can’t comment.

      And there are many threads on why MBT are a poor choice in almost all scenarios.
    • I did stealth bombers once as a test. We were testing stealth against counter measures and detection. All air and helo are fine if you have air superiority. The stealth bomber was fine, but I was taken back how little damage it did to units in a city compared to the numbers shown on the unit sheet. I didn't think it quite lived up to billing albeit that is not evidence of the contrary. As with any air unit in real life, it is slow and fighters can take it out limits its practical usage.