Sir Paust wrote:
YES, sorry I wrote explicite in the start :Wade97Wade wrote:
To answer the OP's questions:
Elite Helicopters > Strike Fighters > Helicopters
If you want to build helicopters build Elite - Regular Helicopters are almost worthless in defense if the enemy has enough jets and it would be suicide to send helicopters into enemy territory..
NO ELITE, only regular.
That is my opinion, Helis got only very few advantages over strikers ( frigattes, SAM, carrier landing), and there are no real advantages.
I saw somebody writing last week something like : Strikers are for noobs, helis are for pros.
That is why is checked my strategy and I am sure this is nonsense.
Helis ? vs. Strikers
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Wade97Wade wrote:
In conclusion
Elite Helicopters > Strike Fighters > Helicopters
If you want to build helicopters build Elite - Regular Helicopters are almost worthless in defense if the enemy has enough jets and it would be suicide to send helicopters into enemy territory..
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to make it simple: helis dont get fucked over by AA
strikefighters do
tho tbh wether u play helis or sf doesn’t really make any difference in public matches; nobody has AA anywaysI am The Baseline for opinions -
Teburu wrote:
to make it simple: helis dont get fucked over by AA
strikefighters do
tho tbh wether u play helis or sf doesn’t really make any difference in public matches; nobody has AA anyways
2. It does matter whether you play Helis or SF because if you chose Helicopters they can be shot down by enemy SF - Therefor choosing Helicopters limits your helicopters to defense unless you want to risk giving away your helicopters for free in enemy territory -
Pafufu wrote:
Wade97Wade wrote:
In conclusion
Elite Helicopters > Strike Fighters > Helicopters
If you want to build helicopters build Elite - Regular Helicopters are almost worthless in defense if the enemy has enough jets and it would be suicide to send helicopters into enemy territory..
If you're going to have SF at least try the Stealth SF and you will see how much of an advantage stealth units are now.
Only issue is Stealth SF are still prone to SAM's -
Wade97Wade wrote:
Pafufu wrote:
Wade97Wade wrote:
In conclusion
Elite Helicopters > Strike Fighters > Helicopters
If you want to build helicopters build Elite - Regular Helicopters are almost worthless in defense if the enemy has enough jets and it would be suicide to send helicopters into enemy territory..
If you're going to have SF at least try the Stealth SF and you will see how much of an advantage stealth units are now.
Only issue is Stealth SF are still prone to SAM's
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Please guys :
I DON`T ASKED FOR STEALTH, ELITE ETC !
I was talking about regular Helicopter.
We can conclude : Helicopters don´t have an advantage ( beside carrierlanding, taking our single SAM and Frigatteattack).
CLosed -
- Strikers can be spotted by all kind of radars, choppers only get spotted by AWACs T2 and above.
- Frigate and SAMs are strongest AA units and can fight strikers in a huge area, only MAAV and cruiser are decent against choppers and have only a ridiculous slow area.
So choppers can even fight fleet, good luck with your strikers doing that.
- All choppers can use carriers, only naval-strikers can use carrier. Mono stacks are always worse than mixed stacks. -
@ Sir Faust
As Kalrakh pointed out, helis do have significant advantages in some areas. However, I agree that most of the necessary dialogue has taken place. So now I agree that this thread should be closed. -
Why not both especially on small maps like flashpoint. On that map you will quickly finish the map. Usually the map will be decided in 15-20 days, many times even quicker. Certainly you will not play the map for 2+ months. So normally there will not be any stealth units.
That been said, helicopters are very effective in the beginning because of a lot of starting infrantry units per country. But strike fighters are great after that because enemy can't counter quick enough with sam's if he is already trying to counter you with mobile aa because of your helicopters.
So why not both from the start when playing flashpoint map (the map i like to play even it is beginners map)? -
Because God we are so poorThis post was made by Leader of the Church of ROAD
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Zemunelo wrote:
Why not both especially on small maps like flashpoint. On that map you will quickly finish the map. Usually the map will be decided in 15-20 days, many times even quicker. Certainly you will not play the map for 2+ months. So normally there will not be any stealth units.
That been said, helicopters are very effective in the beginning because of a lot of starting infrantry units per country. But strike fighters are great after that because enemy can't counter quick enough with sam's if he is already trying to counter you with mobile aa because of your helicopters.
So why not both from the start when playing flashpoint map (the map i like to play even it is beginners map)?
In 20 days you can research the 4 30 Minutes starters and then max. ca. 30 techs.
Why would you research ( beside the cost) a Heli AND a striker when they do the same.
Again a Heli is NOT stronger even vs. a one type stack than a striker because of the speed.
Unimportant how active you play, the striker attacks more often in the same time.
Damage per time is the same. -
Kalrakh wrote:
1- Strikers can be spotted by all kind of radars, choppers only get spotted by AWACs T2 and above.
2- Frigate and SAMs are strongest AA units and can fight strikers in a huge area, only MAAV and cruiser are decent against choppers and have only a ridiculous slow area.
So choppers can even fight fleet, good luck with your strikers doing that.
3- All choppers can use carriers, only naval-strikers can use carrier. Mono stacks are always worse than mixed stacks.
1) True. But nearly unimportant ! In defence, in your own countries you see the heli in any case, you can use ASF to kill them.
In offence in hostile countries your enemy sees your heli and can fight it.
This point is ONLY relevant when you are attacking in hostile countries and get a counterattack from the defender.
But if you attack with ground forces you should have some AA and SAM with you so it´s unimportant, because they are hit twice too.
2) That is true, against SAM and Frigattes Helis are stronger. Just the question if this is a reason to build them, because there are the above mentioned disadvantages and vs. frigattes Helis are also not very effective.
3) True like I wrote, this is an advantage but in my eyes a small one, because I see quite rarely carrieres.
But if you plan to use some, this might be a reason to build them.
4) The disadvantges are : 2 x research time/cost if you want same versatility like strikers ( hard/soft), slower, much smaller operation radius -
Sir Paust wrote:
Kalrakh wrote:
1- Strikers can be spotted by all kind of radars, choppers only get spotted by AWACs T2 and above.
2- Frigate and SAMs are strongest AA units and can fight strikers in a huge area, only MAAV and cruiser are decent against choppers and have only a ridiculous slow area.
So choppers can even fight fleet, good luck with your strikers doing that.
3- All choppers can use carriers, only naval-strikers can use carrier. Mono stacks are always worse than mixed stacks.
In offence in hostile countries your enemy sees your heli and can fight it.
This point is ONLY relevant when you are attacking in hostile countries and get a counterattack from the defender.
But if you attack with ground forces you should have some AA and SAM with you so it´s unimportant, because they are hit twice too.
2) That is true, against SAM and Frigattes Helis are stronger. Just the question if this is a reason to build them, because there are the above mentioned disadvantages and vs. frigattes Helis are also not very effective.
3) True like I wrote, this is an advantage but in my eyes a small one, because I see quite rarely carrieres.
But if you plan to use some, this might be a reason to build them.
4) The disadvantges are : 2 x research time/cost if you want same versatility like strikers ( hard/soft), slower, much smaller operation radius
1) If I attack someone with my helicopters, he will never really see them in his territory.
And no, AA units lost the ability to use their offense against their own attacker quite a while ago. I think with the Patrol-AA-interaction-rework, though not sure.
2) Choppers wreck frigates at any time, even more if you use an officer.
Not sure which disadvantages you mean.
3) It is 3 because it is the least important benefit, I only build carriers very late, if even. But carriers are nice, because they offer mobile airport with level 2 hospital in coastal sea.
4) If you only research strikers you are already at a disadvantage. Being able to mix your choppers depending on your target is an additional advantage and worth the extra cost.
Smaller operation range hardly matters, long ways back home give enemies just more opportunity to intercept.
Also choppers are beefier than strikers. Only European doctrine can keep up with that. -
Kalrakh for most reasonable and articulate player award.
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Kalrakh wrote:
1) If I attack someone with my helicopters, he will never really see them in his territory.
And no, AA units lost the ability to use their offense against their own attacker quite a while ago. I think with the Patrol-AA-interaction-rework, though not sure.
2) Choppers wreck frigates at any time, even more if you use an officer.
Not sure which disadvantages you mean.
3) It is 3 because it is the least important benefit, I only build carriers very late, if even. But carriers are nice, because they offer mobile airport with level 2 hospital in coastal sea.
4) If you only research strikers you are already at a disadvantage. Being able to mix your choppers depending on your target is an additional advantage and worth the extra cost.
Smaller operation range hardly matters, long ways back home give enemies just more opportunity to intercept.
Also choppers are beefier than strikers. Only European doctrine can keep up with 1that.
2. I dont know why, but people often mixed up AA for planes and chopper. Again, not many use chopper, even I who use chopper most game dont bother with AA and just go SAMS. None used any kind of AA anyway, they just opt for ASF. And again, SAMS can shot those down. 100 is alot of range, since heli only have 400 attack range anyway.
3. This one is a question. Does carrier allow my troops to use it as an airlift point?
4. Heli have 3hp more i believe, and i have to ask too, if i mix helis and planes and sam hit them, does the helis share the damage too? -
Aether wrote:
3. This one is a question. Does carrier allow my troops to use it as an airlift point?
I am The Baseline for opinions -
Aether wrote:
Kalrakh wrote:
1) If I attack someone with my helicopters, he will never really see them in his territory.
And no, AA units lost the ability to use their offense against their own attacker quite a while ago. I think with the Patrol-AA-interaction-rework, though not sure.
2) Choppers wreck frigates at any time, even more if you use an officer.
Not sure which disadvantages you mean.
3) It is 3 because it is the least important benefit, I only build carriers very late, if even. But carriers are nice, because they offer mobile airport with level 2 hospital in coastal sea.
4) If you only research strikers you are already at a disadvantage. Being able to mix your choppers depending on your target is an additional advantage and worth the extra cost.
Smaller operation range hardly matters, long ways back home give enemies just more opportunity to intercept.
Also choppers are beefier than strikers. Only European doctrine can keep up with 1that.
2. I dont know why, but people often mixed up AA for planes and chopper. Again, not many use chopper, even I who use chopper most game dont bother with AA and just go SAMS. None used any kind of AA anyway, they just opt for ASF. And again, SAMS can shot those down. 100 is alot of range, since heli only have 400 attack range anyway.
3. This one is a question. Does carrier allow my troops to use it as an airlift point?
4. Heli have 3hp more i believe, and i have to ask too, if i mix helis and planes and sam hit them, does the helis share the damage too?
1) My choppers never leave my borders, except against KI, where I already got rid of all kind of air superiority. Same goes for artillery. Rule No. 1 after all is, never reveal your main battle power to your enemy.
2) AA in general means Anti-Air, so SAMs are AA too. The anti-chopper AA is called MAA(V) in short, to avoid confusion. However MAAV are in current state far to weak to be any kind of real threat.
3) No, carriers do not count as airports/airfields.
3) Yes, choppers will negate a part of the damage because of their immunity. -
helis: do more dmg to a specific target
strike: does medium dmg to both targets
winner = air suppurity -
you need a mix of everything adequately fight the other guy. I usually send stacks of 5 attack helicopters even if they have AA. it may take down 1 of helicopters but I might take out his AA and tanks during the strike. I usually send a couple fighters to protect my helicopters but the AAs destroy them. I counter this by sending SAMs with artillery/infantry into close quarters to protect them.
I personally like helicopters more than strike fighters. strike fighters have better distance when an airport isn't near but they are vulnerable to AAs and SAMs.
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