What does everybody think of the elite railgun?

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    • Staffanos wrote:

      Teburu wrote:

      Staffanos wrote:

      Teburu wrote:

      Staffanos wrote:

      It's hell to good! It destroys the whole game, and makes it totally unprofitable to research other weapons. You do well, and are next to impregnable - Destroy the whole game!
      then you have not the slightest idea how the game works
      So tell me. How is the best way to take out level 3 railgun ? Teach me ?
      quite simple: artilleryalternative is just waiting until it gets fucked by terrain modifer and then aircraft can somewhat do the job
      Instead of coming up with sensible tips. So you're nasty. You can not attack it with aircraft, then you will lose all your planes. It strikes, all ships, all tanks, Elite. Railgun, is too good. It's ruining the game.
      you can attack it with submarine when its in the water....only way to get these little beasts
      @Dorado If you Close the Forum and move everything to Discord you will lose my Feedback for sure.

    • I love how all the competitive and trained players are like

      "it's an elaborated troll, right ? You can't seriously think the thing is overpowered, it's pretty easily countered. At best, it's a fancy AA"

      when all the casuals are like "noooooooooooooooooo, it's broken and op"

      Teburu : one day i was talking with Germanico about how Artillery was immensely powerful compared to other ground units, and how it easily translated in 10 K/D in average, especially when facing the usual inbred "90% strike fighter" player.

      He answered to me he wouldn't consider to nerf further the artilleries because :
      - They were already not that much used by the general population, except by the top-elite-pro-meta players
      - It's not a problem if some units allow top-elite-pro players to rekt the rest of the players.

      He then demonstrated that the artilleries ( and SAMs...) where far behind most other ground units when it comes to "unit choice", despite them being, well... Bringers of Death and Victory.


      Despite all the meta commentaries that are factually right, let's not forget that 95% of the population doesn't think in such logical and methodical way. I mean, we have an example just above.


      Railgun is a fancy AA with incredibly potency ?

      "I lost 25 planes, trying to take out 3 railguns in 1 unit. Pointless"

      Let's bomb it with what it hard counters ! Yiiiihaaaaa

      We assume the thing is just a toy because we immediatly think in terms of speed and range, so we are like "yeah, it's less powerful than the usual meta stack anyway, so why bother ? Wellll... if the other guy doesn't have artillery, it' has some merits, fusing the AA and artillery role"

      but put yourselves in the shoes of the average joe that uses MBTs, Strike fighters, motorised infantry, afvs, this kind of stuff : He rarely encounters artillery already, this thing is monstrous in T2/T3


      For those reasons, i pretty much follow the opinion of Kurt. The thing is barely noticable in T1 (and could be buffed a bit), and is a game changer in T3.

      Not for trained players, because well... What is a railgun, except a "inferior" version of the MRL-SAM-ASF triangle, and we would kill those railguns pretty much like any artillery group with insufficient range... But for the 95% that play the game and also want to take fun in it, without necessarly studying the meta
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.

    • Staffanos wrote:

      AA missles dont work...
      a cruise missile is to trigger its AA fire, then it is on a 10 minute cooldown where you attack it with aircraft or helicopters (my preference as they hit *much* harder). That way your air only gets hit with point defense instead of point defense *and* AA umbrella.

      But again, what is it stacked with?? If you are facing 3 railguns stacked with 3 SAMs, then yeah, aircraft are dead at takeoff and you are a fool for even trying. And if you don't know what it is stacked with, then you *must* find out before throwing all of your resources up against it. Sacrifice a UAV or a scout so that you can see what is in there.

    • Opulon wrote:

      I love how all the competitive and trained players are like

      "it's an elaborated troll, right ? You can't seriously think the thing is overpowered, it's pretty easily countered. At best, it's a fancy AA"

      when all the casuals are like "noooooooooooooooooo, it's broken and op"

      Teburu : one day i was talking with Germanico about how Artillery was immensely powerful compared to other ground units, and how it easily translated in 10 K/D in average, especially when facing the usual inbred "90% strike fighter" player.

      He answered to me he wouldn't consider to nerf further the artilleries because :
      - They were already not that much used by the general population, except by the top-elite-pro-meta players
      - It's not a problem if some units allow top-elite-pro players to rekt the rest of the players.

      He then demonstrated that the artilleries ( and SAMs...) where far behind most other ground units when it comes to "unit choice", despite them being, well... Bringers of Death and Victory.


      Despite all the meta commentaries that are factually right, let's not forget that 95% of the population doesn't think in such logical and methodical way. I mean, we have an example just above.


      Railgun is a fancy AA with incredibly potency ?

      "I lost 25 planes, trying to take out 3 railguns in 1 unit. Pointless"

      Let's bomb it with what it hard counters ! Yiiiihaaaaa

      We assume the thing is just a toy because we immediatly think in terms of speed and range, so we are like "yeah, it's less powerful than the usual meta stack anyway, so why bother ? Wellll... if the other guy doesn't have artillery, it' has some merits, fusing the AA and artillery role"

      but put yourselves in the shoes of the average joe that uses MBTs, Strike fighters, motorised infantry, afvs, this kind of stuff : He rarely encounters artillery already, this thing is monstrous in T2/T3


      For those reasons, i pretty much follow the opinion of Kurt. The thing is barely noticable in T1 (and could be buffed a bit), and is a game changer in T3.

      Not for trained players, because well... What is a railgun, except a "inferior" version of the MRL-SAM-ASF triangle, and we would kill those railguns pretty much like any artillery group with insufficient range... But for the 95% that play the game and also want to take fun in it, without necessarly studying the meta
      this is a good point but it is not said to be invincible by any means. It is just have ma range with more speed (less health but more damage output ). they also unlike ma have sharp cost increasy per tier. so actually if u don't lose many of them most of tem will have the t2 cost not the t3(nearly half of them) . their research line is too short for such a dramatic changes they do need another support unit as prerequisite . currently in apocalypse u can have 6 t2 very early and upgrade to t3 and get a very early awesome units that has quite a speed and cana ir assault

    • "this is a good point but it is not said to be invincible by any means. It is just have ma range with more speed (less health but more damage output ). they also unlike ma have sharp cost increasy per tier. so actually if u don't lose many of them most of tem will have the t2 cost not the t3(nearly half of them) . their research line is too short for such a dramatic changes they do need another support unit as prerequisite . currently in apocalypse u can have 6 t2 very early and upgrade to t3 and get a very early awesome units that has quite a speed and cana ir assault"

      yes, i agree that it's very good, maybe a little bit too much for T2/T3. Basically, i will not iterate what kurt said, i think it's on point
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.

    • @Opulon Thank you for your assessment.It was very detailed. I can totally follow you. This is a online Multiplayer game. Means if you can do a hit and run (mean dealing damage without taking damage) then you eventually win the game.

      Thats what makes every ranged weapon superior in this game. How often did i kill n enemy because I bombed him while he was offline.
      As long as most players still produce massive infantry as their main battleforce it doesnt matter if they get hit by strike fighter, chopppers, MRL, corvettes or Railguns...

      In the end its all in the mix.

      Everybody knows that i love helicopters especially the Elite choppers.But to get them to lvl 3 you have to do lots of research in the normal chopppers branch....so you spend like 14 days blocking 1 research slots. That limits you in other places (like AntiMissle or Navy). And that brings the Spice to the game. I have to make decissions...

      @Germanico If you consider a research dependency for the Railgun accordingly to Elite chopper that would be nerf enough.

      I have prepared a counter railgun strategy in my head but sadly I could not test it in my last game (Act 2 Battle of doctrines). Will have to wait for Act 3, Panama to see if it works in real....
      @Dorado If you Close the Forum and move everything to Discord you will lose my Feedback for sure.

    • kurtvonstein wrote:

      @Opulon Thank you for your assessment.It was very detailed. I can totally follow you. This is a online Multiplayer game. Means if you can do a hit and run (mean dealing damage without taking damage) then you eventually win the game.

      Thats what makes every ranged weapon superior in this game. How often did i kill n enemy because I bombed him while he was offline.
      As long as most players still produce massive infantry as their main battleforce it doesnt matter if they get hit by strike fighter, chopppers, MRL, corvettes or Railguns...

      In the end its all in the mix.

      Everybody knows that i love helicopters especially the Elite choppers.But to get them to lvl 3 you have to do lots of research in the normal chopppers branch....so you spend like 14 days blocking 1 research slots. That limits you in other places (like AntiMissle or Navy). And that brings the Spice to the game. I have to make decissions...

      @Germanico If you consider a research dependency for the Railgun accordingly to Elite chopper that would be nerf enough.

      I have prepared a counter railgun strategy in my head but sadly I could not test it in my last game (Act 2 Battle of doctrines). Will have to wait for Act 3, Panama to see if it works in real....
      to be fair at least 1 more chopper is necessary for season choppers for damage soaking so it is not a huge loss for you research.unlike rail gun that can combo with non support units and another support unit is unnecessary. still any one interested in them can research radar and that's a small cost but yes the point is blocking research slot and not getting good artillery for 3 researches.