The state of artillery. Multiple Rocket Launcher dominating

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    • Wade97Wade wrote:

      Okay I have not bothered to read this post but all I can say is that MRL are easily countered..

      Cough Elite Helicopters Cough.. Who said that?
      ---------------------------------------------------------

      In all seriousness: If you are having trouble with enemy MRL - Use either Stealth Choppers OR sneak up on the artillery stack with SAS units. Thank me later.
      you missed the entire point of the thread
      good job
      I am The Baseline for opinions
    • Wade97Wade wrote:

      Okay I have not bothered to read this post but all I can say is that MRL are easily countered..

      Cough Elite Helicopters Cough.. Who said that?
      ---------------------------------------------------------

      In all seriousness: If you are having trouble with enemy MRL - Use either Stealth Choppers OR sneak up on the artillery stack with SAS units. Thank me later.
      Dealing with one single unit type is always easy.

      Pretend that the enemy is active, else you might as well run in with tanks, not a difficult enemy to deal with.

      But what do you do if the enemy has 2 ground stacks, 4 MRL, 4 AA, 2 SAMs each. Do you really intend to fly anyform of aircraft into a majorly AA stack? If you sneak up on one stack, the other stack is going to obliterate the special forces. And while the spec ops are engaged, they are extremely vulnerable to enemy aircraft bombing because:
      - your spec ops are fighting inside an enemy AA bubble = safe space for my aircrafts
      - Your spec ops are squishy and have little AA defence
      - there aren't stealth AA units

      Knowing you have helicopters (I can prepare for it because I can see all your airfields), I can build an extra amount of AA and Air sups. With enough AA, I don't have to do anything to repel any air attack.

      Special Forces are also countered by numerous stealth uncovering units, once you suspect the enemy of building them, you can easily build cheap counter units: UAV, mobile radar, CRVs. All these units have very low building requirements, low production costs, low cost and short research time. It is very easy to spot enemy spec ops production: lv3 army base, recruitment centre, airfield. No other unit has these building requirements. Your Spec opcs might be a secret, but the production of them certainly not.

      This thread is also more about artilleries compared to each other, and less about their balance in the entire game.

      PS: Why are people participating here without reading anything? Of course you are going to miss the point by a mile.
    • Mc_Johnsen wrote:

      Wade97Wade wrote:

      Okay I have not bothered to read this post but all I can say is that MRL are easily countered..

      Cough Elite Helicopters Cough.. Who said that?
      ---------------------------------------------------------

      In all seriousness: If you are having trouble with enemy MRL - Use either Stealth Choppers OR sneak up on the artillery stack with SAS units. Thank me later.
      Dealing with one single unit type is always easy.
      Pretend that the enemy is active, else you might as well run in with tanks, not a difficult enemy to deal with.

      But what do you do if the enemy has 2 ground stacks, 4 MRL, 4 AA, 2 SAMs each. Do you really intend to fly anyform of aircraft into a majorly AA stack? If you sneak up on one stack, the other stack is going to obliterate the special forces. And while the spec ops are engaged, they are extremely vulnerable to enemy aircraft bombing because:
      - your spec ops are fighting inside an enemy AA bubble = safe space for my aircrafts
      - Your spec ops are squishy and have little AA defence
      - there aren't stealth AA units

      Knowing you have helicopters (I can prepare for it because I can see all your airfields), I can build an extra amount of AA and Air sups. With enough AA, I don't have to do anything to repel any air attack.

      Special Forces are also countered by numerous stealth uncovering units, once you suspect the enemy of building them, you can easily build cheap counter units: UAV, mobile radar, CRVs. All these units have very low building requirements, low production costs, low cost and short research time. It is very easy to spot enemy spec ops production: lv3 army base, recruitment centre, airfield. No other unit has these building requirements. Your Spec opcs might be a secret, but the production of them certainly not.

      This thread is also more about artilleries compared to each other, and less about their balance in the entire game.

      PS: Why are people participating here without reading anything? Of course you are going to miss the point by a mile.

      Question:
      "But what do you do if the enemy has 2 ground stacks, 4 MRL, 4 AA, 2 SAMs each. Do you really intend to fly anyform of aircraft into a majorly AA stack?"

      (Assuming all Max level)

      Answer:
      8 ELITE choppers armor damage = 148 damage
      8 ELITE choppers HP = 280
      ---------------------------------------------------
      4 AA guns = 36 damage
      4 AA guns + 4 MRL + 2 SAMS HP = 244 HP
      ---------------------------------------------------
      STACK BREAKDOWN

      148 damage/280 HP vs 36 damage/224 HP

      Easy win for the virtually invisible ELITE unit. The Chopper go back to the level 5 hospital which will heal 5.4545 Elite Choppers in 24 game hours.
      -------------------------------------------------------



      Use MRL and Elite Choppers in combination to win artillery wars.

      Use the Choppers to deal with enemy MRL. Use your MRL to deal with enemy AA.






      Now I have a question for you:

      What do you do against this stack -

      9 MRL, 1 Tank Commander that keep running away from your MRL

      +

      10 Elite Choppers taking out your ground units, and then it sits waiting exactly 32 range out from your airbase - Waiting for your jets to land so they can strike?

      I can guarantee that even 10 stacks of "4 MRL, 4 AA and 2 SAMs" will be worthless against the stack mentioned above ^




      "Knowing you have helicopters (I can prepare for it because I can see all your airfields)"

      So you look around the entire map looking for anyone with a level 5 airbase and you will instantly start building AA? Not likely.
    • Teburu wrote:

      Wade97Wade wrote:

      Okay I have not bothered to read this post but all I can say is that MRL are easily countered..

      Cough Elite Helicopters Cough.. Who said that?
      ---------------------------------------------------------

      In all seriousness: If you are having trouble with enemy MRL - Use either Stealth Choppers OR sneak up on the artillery stack with SAS units. Thank me later.
      you missed the entire point of the threadgood job
      Strange that nobody else offering counters has missed the point, only the person who is teaching people how to beat your strategy of killing noobs with artillery.
    • Wade97Wade wrote:

      Teburu wrote:

      Wade97Wade wrote:

      Okay I have not bothered to read this post but all I can say is that MRL are easily countered..

      Cough Elite Helicopters Cough.. Who said that?
      ---------------------------------------------------------

      In all seriousness: If you are having trouble with enemy MRL - Use either Stealth Choppers OR sneak up on the artillery stack with SAS units. Thank me later.
      you missed the entire point of the threadgood job
      Strange that nobody else offering counters has missed the point, only the person who is teaching people how to beat your strategy of killing noobs with artillery.
      xD
      You didnt even read any of the posts here and yet have the audacity to make such claim
      If you're unable to comment on the topic then dont fucking comment
      I am The Baseline for opinions

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Teburu ().

    • Teburu wrote:

      Wade97Wade wrote:

      Teburu wrote:

      Wade97Wade wrote:

      Okay I have not bothered to read this post but all I can say is that MRL are easily countered..

      Cough Elite Helicopters Cough.. Who said that?
      ---------------------------------------------------------

      In all seriousness: If you are having trouble with enemy MRL - Use either Stealth Choppers OR sneak up on the artillery stack with SAS units. Thank me later.
      you missed the entire point of the threadgood job
      Strange that nobody else offering counters has missed the point, only the person who is teaching people how to beat your strategy of killing noobs with artillery.
      xDYou didnt even read any of the posts here and yet have the audacity to make such claim
      If you're unable to comment on the topic then dont fucking comment
      I read every comment just not the entire OP's post.

      Just for the record it says your comment you just posted was edited 2 times. To that I say "If you're unable to comment then don't comment"


      2 times... Lmao.
    • Wade97Wade wrote:

      So you look around the entire map looking for anyone with a level 5 airbase and you will instantly start building AA? Not likely.
      I do absolutely. I look around the map and see who my next potential enemies are, what he builds, scan the newspaper and then build and plan my units accordingly. And I am absolutely not afraid of starting the production of an entirely new unit or ditching old units. If I see that my next enemy has plenty of air, why should I continue building artilleries?

      If I realize my enemy is using elite choppers I will simply put stacks of 10 mobile AA and put them next to my artillery stacks, covering each other with their AA radius.


      Wade97Wade wrote:

      Answer:
      8 ELITE choppers armor damage = 148 damage
      8 ELITE choppers HP = 280
      ---------------------------------------------------
      4 AA guns = 36 damage
      4 AA guns + 4 MRL + 2 SAMS HP = 244 HP
      ---------------------------------------------------
      STACK BREAKDOWN

      148 damage/280 HP vs 36 damage/224 HP
      I have never seen such bad maths. Disregarding all game mechanics and just plainly comparing numbers. "My stack has bigger numbers than yours, I win!" ???

      Now to your numbers, I don't know why you go with 8 choppers if the stack limit is 5. You won't attack me with a stack of more than 5 choppers, stack inefficiency kills everything.

      5 elite choppers have 19 hard dmg each. 19 * 5 * (1+ 0.02[bonus]) = 104 dmg total.

      A chopper has 35 HP. A stack of 5 have 175 HP.

      One mobile AA deals 9 damage vs helis. 18 if you directly attack that stack.

      For every 2 mobile AA I have in my stack, that you directly attack, I kill 1 elite heli.

      For every 4 mobile AA I have covering that stack youa re attacking, I kill 1 elite heli.

      Your choppers can't uncover unit details which means you don't know which stack you are attacking. All you see is stacks full of support units. You might attack a stack of 10 mobile AA(90 dmg + 90 dmg) and instantly lose all 5 choppers.

      This is absolutely not sustainable for the attacker. (Hint: Elite Helis that were killed can't be healed in a hospital)

      Units that are in my artillery stacks: SAMs (20HP) , MRL (20HP) , mobile AA (31HP). Each helicopter deals about 20 dmg, enough to kill one unit.

      Even if you catch one stack with only 4 mobile AA, these 4 will use their ranged AA to deal 4*9 = 36 dmg to your helis. That is one heli shot down. This damage is calculated before your actual attack happens, always. Then you attack with 4 helis while I defend with 4 mobile AA. My 4 mobile AA will again deal 36 dmg and shoot down 1 heli. In the meantime your 4 helis will kill 4 units of mine. I lost 4 units while you lost 2 elite helis. 2 Helis lost that you cannot heal. Even in the worst case scenario of bad rolls I will kill at least 1 elite heli. And this was my worst case scenario where 1 stack gets caught out alone. In reality I will make sure to have more than 4 AA in range at all times, killing even more helis everytime you attack.

      If I do get caught out, I can hold out in province centres and enjoy that +25% def bonus.

      Don't forget that I can easier replenish my losses, my units are cheaper and have lower building requirements.


      Wade97Wade wrote:

      The Chopper go back to the level 5 hospital which will heal 5.4545 Elite Choppers in 24 game hours.
      One chopper has 35 HP. On ground he has 15 HP. That means each HP on the ground transfers to 35/15 HP in air. 35/15 = 2.33 . For every HP you heal on the ground, you heal 2.33 HP in air. A Lv5 hospital heals 6 HP per day per heli. That is 6 * 2.33 = 14 HP in air healed per day. Even if you have all 8 helis you would heal 8 * 14 = 112 HP in air per day. 112 /35 = 3.2 Helicopters healed per day, not 5.45 . 3.2 Helis healed per day is nontheless good. However it requires all 8 helis to sit in that hospital and do nothing (and be an easy target for missiles or spec ops, whatever toys I might have. Your helis would be safer in the air).

      It also requires you to have a nearby hospital Lv5. In late game your empire is large, fast expanding and wars have large frontlines and fast moving frontiers (one party might conquer a lot). Chances are very high you won't have a Lv5 hospital right there, building a Lv5 hospital near the frontline is obviously risky and chances are that it is in recently occupied territory with bad morale, which means even longer building times. In conclusion: Your Lv5 hospital is likely a bit further away, have fun flying there.


      Wade97Wade wrote:

      What do you do against this stack -

      9 MRL, 1 Tank Commander that keep running away from your MRL

      +

      10 Elite Choppers taking out your ground units, and then it sits waiting exactly 32 range out from your airbase - Waiting for your jets to land so they can strike?
      Use my own helis/aircrafts to kill your stack? If you can have elite helis, tank commander and MRL so can I have MRL, AA and helis? ;D

      If your helicopters are in range to strike my refueling aircrafts, so are mine (to strike your refueling a. And I am not stupid enough to have my entire air fleet refueling at the same time on the same airfield. Let alone would my aircrafts refuel in range of enemy airfields, especially if the enemy has stealth aircrafts.

      Also I can use terrain to gain the superior speed despite you having a tank commander. If I am on open grounds I have a speed of 1.5 . You in anything but open grounds/desert have a max speed of 0.99*1.25 = 1.24 . If I feel like you make too much use of that speed, I will not move anywhere where you can get better speed than me.


      Wade97Wade wrote:

      Use the Choppers to deal with enemy MRL. Use your MRL to deal with enemy AA.
      Because thats exactly how a grand strategy game works. My MRL and AA will be seperated and far away from each other. So your MRL can attack my AA and your Helis can attack my MRL. Nope. Your MRL will always deal with my MRL+AA, and your Helis will always deal with my AA+MRL. Why would I seperate them???

      EDIT: You are the same person that thinks if I have frigates and cruiser you can just use Aircrafts to take out my cruiser and your own cruisers to take out my frigates, aren't you?

      Wade97Wade wrote:

      Strange that nobody else offering counters has missed the point, only the person who is teaching people how to beat your strategy of killing noobs with artillery.
      I think you are yet to run into a person building a proper amount of AA and layering them correctly. Running into people who don't know how to counter your units sure make your units look op!

      To your love about having elite helis, I am glad that you found fun units to play with. Elite Helis are really incredibly strong! But so are most late game units, unless your opponent has a good counter to it ;)

      Did you know that this thread is about MRLs being so much stronger than the other two artilleries and that the downsides of MRL don't make up for it?

      If you think that artilleries are overrated and actually weak and easily counterable, why don't you join an alliance and play an alliance challenge against a strong team? Let me know how far you get with this strategy and how long you take until the battlefield ends up in a mainly artillery vs artillery match. Why do I mention alliance challenges? Because the level of play there is much greater than public matches. You can make any unit in public matches look really strong, even motorized infantry.
    • Don't feed the troll that is derailing your meta study.

      It's... a big huge as a study (with all the comments) for me to react "too quickly on it".

      I need to digest it, and to think a bit in order to separate my thoughts between "how it goes in challenges" and "how it goes in public".

      However, it has the merit to throw the conversation to very deep levels.
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • Zemunelo wrote:

      Towed just seems to be cheap because no high building prerequisites but in masses you are spending your precious resource, electronics. And you need electronics for all airplanes for example. And if you want to use towed effectively you have to build more than a couple of them.
      Even though I don't use them, they are useful in a game you expect to be over quickly, you want artillery, and you want to save resources more than you want to have firepower.

      A small amount of damage that your opponent can't counter is still damage your opponent can't counter.

      Or you want an air born assault military. So, Airborne, Spec Ops, Recon, Towed, SAM, Tank Destroyer, and I think there is something I am forgetting.

      Of the four types of units you start with, towed and recons are by far the most useless unless their specific strengths fit into your strategy.
      This signature intentionally left blank
    • Recons are very good to have in early stack or nearby front line. Or before you start the conflict. Because they are...scouts, so you can see exact composition of the enemy army, individual units and their lvl.
      This is very important to know before you attack to be able to counter. Yes you can build drones for scouting but probably you will research strikes or asf before drones. And drones are only for scouting but recons are armored units thus good against infrantry stacks as well. In my experience they also receive more damage before other better and stronger units whom you want to save.
      Obviously in mid or late games especially if map is bigger you will stop producing/upgrading them.
      Yes you loose some time and resources to research and train them but they are worth the effort in early game.

      I never tried to use them in latter game stages like airborne, jumping into the enemy territory using helicopters but I assume you can do it in specific circumstances. Maybee with towed to surprise your enemy.
      Never tried that. If I have airsuperiority I quickly finish the enemy with planes. No need for arty.
    • I'm not even bothering to tag the guy that still doesn't realise ELite Chopper are a stealth unit and AA can only hit it once. Lmao.

      This minion also cannot calculate math effectively enough to realize there is a reason behind "yellow, orange and red" overstacking penalties. Apparently more overall damage for the exact same damage returns isn't a smart way to attack?
    • MrBookShelf wrote:

      Again, we are discussing about artillery vs artillery. You are free to open another tread to discuss about elite chopper.
      Mate I've seen you in posts talking about Anime that have nothing to do with the thread at all?

      I'm offering people a way to kill MRL effectively without having to outnumber them with MRL of your own + At the same time encouraging people to purchase the SC membership so they can have solid units.
    • As multiple people have said. The Topic is not about "how to kill MRLs", but about the internal dynamics related to the artillery triangle.


      In other words, it's pretty much like if you were attempting to make a discussion about the Internal Gunship-Attack Helicopter balance, and someone came to say "ASF"

      "yes but it's not the subj"

      "ASFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF"

      Next time i see you trolling a serious subjet, i move you out. Just do your own topic about elite choppers. We are studying a very small fraction of the meta, here.
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • ...What!?

      Removed Mountain terrain from Mobile Artiilery and Rocket Launchers off?!

      and AA-Mobile not working?! wrong vehicle, right one it's Mobile SAM (vs aircraft only).

      Towed Artillery for cheapeters, it's become anhilated by 5x Gunship or 5x Heavy Bombers or less that, easy targets.

      Artillery Tank (AT) can shooting behind frontlines to enemy units, mean while IFV units fighting against enemy.

      AT in real lifes not use in combat fighting, because not fitting in combat, in mountain it's can fired on hills ground to long range distance than normal range distance. Same as like Rocket Launchers stay put and fired it to enemy target from about 6 km of frontlines, without unnecenary combat fighting.

      I use 4x AT, 2x or 3x SAM and 1x Radar Mobile and AA-Mobile, Real Support Unit.

      This Settings no need changed it.

      I like currently settings mode online.
      Guns are always loaded.