Taiwan as the Israel of the Pacific.

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    • Taiwan as the Israel of the Pacific.

      Hey Y'all!
      As you might know, Taiwan is the AI controlled nation in South China Sea. But I was wondering how come it isn't a playable nation, like Israel. Like Israel, it is potentially surrounded by hostile neighbors and like the Koreas and Israel, have few cities. All I'm saying is, Taiwan could be the Israel of the Pacific and it'll be interesting to see how it would play out. I think that Taiwan should start with 5 cities like Israel. What do you guys think?
    • 12072281 wrote:

      Hey Y'all!
      As you might know, Taiwan is the AI controlled nation in South China Sea. But I was wondering how come it isn't a playable nation, like Israel. Like Israel, it is potentially surrounded by hostile neighbors and like the Koreas and Israel, have few cities. All I'm saying is, Taiwan could be the Israel of the Pacific and it'll be interesting to see how it would play out. I think that Taiwan should start with 5 cities like Israel. What do you guys think?
      That would be very cool, but I'm guessing that Taiwan would always be bullied by China unless Taiwan allies with China.
    • Personally, I don't like the idea of Taiwan being a country for a few reasons.
      1. Global Firepower (globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp) has ranked South Korea's military 6th strongest, and Israel's military 18th strongest. (Let's just ignore the fact that North Korea is ranked just above Taiwan's military)
      2. Taiwan is one of the few AI countries in Southeast Asia that doesn't require marines or airborne to infantry to capture.
      3. The current number of playable countries is at a nice, round, perfect, 64. Adding one more would change it to the ungodly amount of 65, which would throw everything into utter chaos
      4. In terms of military, Taiwan doesn't really come to mind (well, to an American who knows nothing outside of America)
      Are my arguments weak? Yes. Do I have a particularly strong stance against Taiwan becoming a playable country? No. Am I grasping at straws here and rambling? Perhaps. But in the grand scheme of things, I don't think Taiwan is the biggest competitor in the becoming-a-playable-country discussion.

      Feel free to prove me wrong and smash my limp argument to bits!
      "Dealer of Death has counted to infinity... twice"
      -Kurtvonstein
    • 12072281 wrote:

      Hey Y'all!
      As you might know, Taiwan is the AI controlled nation in South China Sea. But I was wondering how come it isn't a playable nation, like Israel. Like Israel, it is potentially surrounded by hostile neighbors and like the Koreas and Israel, have few cities. All I'm saying is, Taiwan could be the Israel of the Pacific and it'll be interesting to see how it would play out. I think that Taiwan should start with 5 cities like Israel. What do you guys think?
      Honestly, I really HATE coming down negatively on suggestions from people, ...

      BUT, ...

      The situations are not remotely similar. Israel is an independent country with one of the most powerful pound for pound militaries in the world. Taiwan is a separate administrative zone of PR China. So even without opening the hornet's nest of it's sovereignty, that's a big difference. Also, Israel already figures quite largely in balance of power situations on it's own. Taiwan would disappear tomorrow if the USA had no vested interest in it. But mostly my objection would be in relation to the game and game mechanics. Israel is nearly unplayable with all those cities jam packed in there right next to each other, I certainly wouldn't want another mess like that in the game.




      "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD
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      "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD
    • Nitpicking here

      Dealer of Death wrote:

      Taiwan is a separate administrative zone of PR China.
      Say that to a Taiwanese and you’ll get beaten to death
      ———
      All that aside, as long as this game doesn’t get released in the PRC, I believe it will be fine to make the ROC a playable nation in a Pacific Flashpoint gamemode
      Currently on (potentially permanent) hiatus

      Instead of choosing wings to fly, we chose hands to hold with each other.

      Yet the sky still fascinates us, is it such a crime to keep on dreaming?
    • 737373elj wrote:

      Nitpicking here

      Dealer of Death wrote:

      Taiwan is a separate administrative zone of PR China.
      Say that to a Taiwanese and you’ll get beaten to death———
      All that aside, as long as this game doesn’t get released in the PRC, I believe it will be fine to make the ROC a playable nation in a Pacific Flashpoint gamemode
      Hey, I didn't say that was how I think it should be, just the practical reality. If China wants to invade, it is over before it starts and the only reason they don't is for fear of wrecking what makes Taiwan so valuable in the first place.
      *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***
      The KING of CoN News!!!
      The "Get off my lawn!" cranky CoN Forums Poster - not affiliated with Dorado in any way


      "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD
    • When talking about Taiwan and it's (maybe not existing) independence there are several arguments:
      -Nearly no countries recognize Taiwan's independence, these do:
      Belize, Guatemala, Haiti, Holy See, Honduras, Marshall Islands, Nauru, Nicaragua, Palau, Paraguay, St Lucia, St Kitts and Nevis, St Vincent and the Grenadines, Swaziland and Tuvalu
      -All of them have in common, that they are small and don't really need a good relationship with China, e.g. the Holy See doesn't, because they don't really need to trade with other countries.
      -The USA protected Taiwan from China, despite not recognizing it

      -(this is my personal opinion)China isn't a democracy, Taiwan is (I think we should try to get the whole world to be a democracy, but well, I'm not in charge.)
      a.k.a. jem and and eres
    • Jemandanderes wrote:

      ...

      -(this is my personal opinion)China isn't a democracy, Taiwan is (I think we should try to get the whole world to be a democracy, but well, I'm not in charge.)
      THAT, scares the Hell out of me. There is a reason the USA is a Republic and not a direct Democracy. Direct Democracies are nothing more than Tyranny of the Majority. Sometimes what is in the best interest of all the people in a country is NOT what the majority wants. That's why it is good to have insulating layers from mob rule reactions in Representatives and the Electoral college.

      Let me give you an example, say mass idiocy infested a country, and the majority decided that the Letter "G" looked like a swastika and anyone who used it was vile and evil and had to be banned from life. If that happened all the Georges would hope that there was a sane Representative in between them and this being legally enacted and woe betide that country if that Representative is just as imbecilic.
      *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***
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      "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Dealer of Death ().

    • Dealer of Death wrote:

      Jemandanderes wrote:

      ...

      -(this is my personal opinion)China isn't a democracy, Taiwan is (I think we should try to get the whole world to be a democracy, but well, I'm not in charge.)
      THAT, scares the Hell out of me. There is a reason the USA is a Republic and not a direct Democracy. Direct Democracies are nothing more than Tyranny of the Majority. Sometimes what is in the best interest of all the people in a country is NOT what the majority wants. That's why it is good to have insulating layers from mob rule reactions in Representatives and the Electoral college.
      Let me give you an example, say mass idiocy infested a country, and the majority decided that the Letter "G" looked like a swastika and anyone who used it was vile and evil and had to be banned from life. If that happened all the Georges would hope that there was a sane Representative in between them and this being legally enacted and woe betide that country if that Representative is just as imbecilic.
      I'm sorry, if I wasn't precise enough again. I didn't know there is a difference between a democracy and a republic. What I meant is that the sovereignty of every government should come from the people and the people who make decisions should be elected by them, with everyone having the same amount of votes.


      So I looked up the definition:
      democracy come from demos(people) and kratia(power/authority) (both Greek) SO in a democracy the power comes from the people. There is nothing stating that is has to be direct, voting the decision makers is also a democray.
      republic comes from res publica(public affair, Latin) which means that the power rests with a nations citizens.

      So they mean about the same thing. "a republic is a form of government whereas a democracy is an ideology that helps shape how a government is run" That means to me that democracy is a more general term than republic.

      But there seem to be also non-democratic republics like russia under it's current ruler Vladimir Putin and North Korea under basically every of it's rulers (for more specific explanation look in my source).

      So when I said I think we should try to get the whole world to be a democracy, I meant that the world shouldn't be like North Korea but more like the many democracies in the world (Also according to this source the USA are
      a democratic republic. Not every democracy is a direct democracy)

      source for nearly everything: blog.prepscholar.com/republic-vs-democracy-difference
      a.k.a. jem and and eres
    • Jemandanderes wrote:

      I'm sorry, if I wasn't precise enough again. I didn't know there is a difference between a democracy and a republic. What I meant is that the sovereignty of every government should come from the people and the people who make decisions should be elected by them, with everyone having the same amount of votes.

      So I looked up the definition:
      democracy come from demos(people) and kratia(power/authority) (both Greek) SO in a democracy the power comes from the people. There is nothing stating that is has to be direct, voting the decision makers is also a democray.
      republic comes from res publica(public affair, Latin) which means that the power rests with a nations citizens.

      So they mean about the same thing. "a republic is a form of government whereas a democracy is an ideology that helps shape how a government is run" That means to me that democracy is a more general term than republic.

      But there seem to be also non-democratic republics like russia under it's current ruler Vladimir Putin and North Korea under basically every of it's rulers (for more specific explanation look in my source).

      So when I said I think we should try to get the whole world to be a democracy, I meant that the world shouldn't be like North Korea but more like the many democracies in the world (Also according to this source the USA are
      a democratic republic. Not every democracy is a direct democracy)

      source for nearly everything: blog.prepscholar.com/republic-vs-democracy-difference
      Look, it was YOU who threw out the unqualified "Democracy" willy nilly, not me. Since you didn't qualify it, I quite naturally assumed it was in the current populous vein that means nothing more than mob rule. Another point is, that a democracy can also be a form of government as under the classical Greek model, not just the ideological form OF another type of government.

      Additionally, the suggestion that there really are non democratic republics in existence is patently absurd. As we all know that such regimes merely mimic the apparatus of a representative system and use the terminology to lend supposed legitimacy to their autocracies.

      Finally, THANK YOU for clarifying, for to me, the only thing more scary than having ONE despotic ruler, is being governed by MANY despotic rulers.




      "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD
      *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***
      The KING of CoN News!!!
      The "Get off my lawn!" cranky CoN Forums Poster - not affiliated with Dorado in any way


      "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD