Infantry mortars need a nerf, specially on x4 games

This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

  • Kalrakh wrote:

    Attack is still not infantries strong suit, they have better defensive stats

    I suspect most people took mech inf over mot inf so they needed a buff to make it more even?
    Attack is Marines strong suit, more so attacking cities.
    This has an aspect of realisum attached with US marines in WW2 who actually used mortars.

    As seen in "The pacific" (miniseries)

    Yet if you attack with a 10 stack of marines, against a 10 stack of infantry, the infantry on defense will attack first dealing massive damage, then deal even more damage when attacked with its defensive stats. Its only in the second attack the marine's defensive stat will be of use and at that stage its already lost both two battles.

    Marines are shit, mech infantry are more often used because they have defensive stats, more hitpoints against aircraft but the tradeoff is they are expensive and hard to replace. Where marines are sitting ducks, not saying you can't use them but the cost of lvl 2 army, level 2 docks, and recruitment office far outweight a lvl 1 army base yet the unit maxxed out is pathetic in an offensive role.

    Seems Marines are a gimic, a single unit to capture a tile to build a pontoon bridge. An engineer unit, not a combat unit.
  • crazystoner wrote:

    Kalrakh wrote:

    Attack is still not infantries strong suit, they have better defensive stats

    I suspect most people took mech inf over mot inf so they needed a buff to make it more even?
    Attack is Marines strong suit, more so attacking cities.This has an aspect of realisum attached with US marines in WW2 who actually used mortars.

    As seen in "The pacific" (miniseries)

    Yet if you attack with a 10 stack of marines, against a 10 stack of infantry, the infantry on defense will attack first dealing massive damage, then deal even more damage when attacked with its defensive stats. Its only in the second attack the marine's defensive stat will be of use and at that stage its already lost both two battles.

    Marines are shit, mech infantry are more often used because they have defensive stats, more hitpoints against aircraft but the tradeoff is they are expensive and hard to replace. Where marines are sitting ducks, not saying you can't use them but the cost of lvl 2 army, level 2 docks, and recruitment office far outweight a lvl 1 army base yet the unit maxxed out is pathetic in an offensive role.

    Seems Marines are a gimic, a single unit to capture a tile to build a pontoon bridge. An engineer unit, not a combat unit.
    1. Con isn't meant to be super realistic or you will need to change many aspects of combat, doctrine buffs, unit placements, and many other areas of thi game.
    2. I like how you are recognizing the difference in stats for marins and mechanized but in the end mele stats do not mean much. This is especially apparent with tanks. They have great numbers on paper yet are never the go to for land based warfare unless you are stuck using sf and mbt. Basically, stats don't mean anything if you have no way of using those numbers to deal damage since artillery just chips u and run.
  • crazystoner wrote:

    Dealer of Death wrote:

    No, it would imply there is a problem with new people, namely ignorance.
    Yeah ignorance as to what the most over powered unit to amass is. (railguns :D)Submarines and Special Forces on attack, Infantry and Destroyers on defense.
    Railguns are not over powered :) They are simply fancy anti air. Range is key in land warfare and railguns cannot compete with the king of land (MRLS) and they don't have any viable way to get close either (unlike specops with stealth).

    As for your point on "attack" and "defense". I would recommend you don't view attack and defense overall as two separate concepts, but rather what a unit does when attacking or defending. You might look at artillery and think it is shit for defense because of it's low defense value, but remember it can hit an invading unit and fall back while no other unit with high defense stat can (mortar don't count, 20 range is too small).

    For naval, do you not use cruisers or elite submarines?
  • Dealer of Death wrote:

    playbabe wrote:

    seriously tho, new people constantly bring this topic up. wouldn't that imply there is a problem relate to this unit?
    No, it would imply there is a problem with new people, namely ignorance.
    There're you go. with that quote I already spot few more core problem that lead to this.
    - terrible or lack of tutorial.
    - not newbie friendly.

    now you can decide to push new players away or attempt to fix the problem you are ignoring.
    no meta, I do what meta don't do and YEET them with ridiculous tactic. - IT YEET OR BE YEETED
  • crazystoner wrote:

    Kalrakh wrote:

    Attack is still not infantries strong suit, they have better defensive stats

    I suspect most people took mech inf over mot inf so they needed a buff to make it more even?
    Attack is Marines strong suit, more so attacking cities.This has an aspect of realisum attached with US marines in WW2 who actually used mortars.

    As seen in "The pacific" (miniseries)

    Yet if you attack with a 10 stack of marines, against a 10 stack of infantry, the infantry on defense will attack first dealing massive damage, then deal even more damage when attacked with its defensive stats. Its only in the second attack the marine's defensive stat will be of use and at that stage its already lost both two battles.

    Marines are shit, mech infantry are more often used because they have defensive stats, more hitpoints against aircraft but the tradeoff is they are expensive and hard to replace. Where marines are sitting ducks, not saying you can't use them but the cost of lvl 2 army, level 2 docks, and recruitment office far outweight a lvl 1 army base yet the unit maxxed out is pathetic in an offensive role.

    Seems Marines are a gimic, a single unit to capture a tile to build a pontoon bridge. An engineer unit, not a combat unit.
    none of the inf are really combatunits to begin with? :D
    I am the basline for opinions
  • crazystoner wrote:

    Kalrakh wrote:

    Attack is still not infantries strong suit, they have better defensive stats

    I suspect most people took mech inf over mot inf so they needed a buff to make it more even?
    Attack is Marines strong suit, more so attacking cities.This has an aspect of realisum attached with US marines in WW2 who actually used mortars.

    As seen in "The pacific" (miniseries)

    Yet if you attack with a 10 stack of marines, against a 10 stack of infantry, the infantry on defense will attack first dealing massive damage, then deal even more damage when attacked with its defensive stats. Its only in the second attack the marine's defensive stat will be of use and at that stage its already lost both two battles.

    Marines are shit, mech infantry are more often used because they have defensive stats, more hitpoints against aircraft but the tradeoff is they are expensive and hard to replace. Where marines are sitting ducks, not saying you can't use them but the cost of lvl 2 army, level 2 docks, and recruitment office far outweight a lvl 1 army base yet the unit maxxed out is pathetic in an offensive role.

    Seems Marines are a gimic, a single unit to capture a tile to build a pontoon bridge. An engineer unit, not a combat unit.
    Wrong, Marines defensive stat will never be used, as long the motorized infantry stays in the defensive.

    How ever: The job of marines is to attack positions with low or even no units around, that is why they can land on every coast.

    How ever 2: If you use marines, you should also use ACVs. If you pair those two, those motorized would hardly stand a chance, even if they get the first shot.
  • crazystoner wrote:

    Kalrakh wrote:

    Attack is still not infantries strong suit, they have better defensive stats

    I suspect most people took mech inf over mot inf so they needed a buff to make it more even?
    Attack is Marines strong suit, more so attacking cities.This has an aspect of realisum attached with US marines in WW2 who actually used mortars.

    As seen in "The pacific" (miniseries)

    Yet if you attack with a 10 stack of marines, against a 10 stack of infantry, the infantry on defense will attack first dealing massive damage, then deal even more damage when attacked with its defensive stats. Its only in the second attack the marine's defensive stat will be of use and at that stage its already lost both two battles.

    Marines are shit, mech infantry are more often used because they have defensive stats, more hitpoints against aircraft but the tradeoff is they are expensive and hard to replace. Where marines are sitting ducks, not saying you can't use them but the cost of lvl 2 army, level 2 docks, and recruitment office far outweight a lvl 1 army base yet the unit maxxed out is pathetic in an offensive role.

    Seems Marines are a gimic, a single unit to capture a tile to build a pontoon bridge. An engineer unit, not a combat unit.
    Yes, all infantry is not used to deal damage, but to capture land. So you use some infantry without special skills like mot. or mech. inf or NG. Naval inf. can also disembark without a harbour so they are used in places where other inf can't be used, like to take islands or to launch surprise attacks from not usually not defended provinces, but yes, they are only used to get the land to build a pontoon(this is translated by google translator, can someone confirm it?) to let your real army land, you now, artillery and Sam and radar. But mot inf is also juts useful to grab land, to not expose your artillery and move it onto enemy ground.
  • playbabe wrote:

    seriously tho, new people constantly bring this topic up. wouldn't that imply there is a problem relate to this unit?
    People who bring this up typically do not know how to use artillery.
    Just because 5 people jump off a bridge doesn't mean it's a good idea.
    "Le patriotisme, c'est aimer son pays. Le nationalisme, c'est détester celui des autres."-Charles De Gaulle, Leader of Free France in World War 2.
    English: "Patriotism is to love your country. Nationalism is hating that of others."
  • You speak like artillery is the be all and end all.
    Dont get me wrong, railguns are fantastic, but id rather stacks of special forces any day, SAS.

    While towed artillery is great, the reliance on AA is a burden.
    Any other artillery and you lack maneuverability.

    Last game i played with railguns, i think my stack ended the game with 200kills, never did get that level 5 army base either, think i even lost one. But railguns are exceptionally overpowered in the hands of a extraordinary commander.

    I recall one game i played as Chad, heavy mech, two stacks, 1 with 5/6 tanks the other 5/6 mobile artliiery, i lost the game, but i had Africa and dominated every single large scale engagement. I lost because the entire game i was under gorilla warfare and my tanks lacked the maneuverability to combat wave after wave after wave. Same thing happened when i played as Canada and rushed stealth bombers. Of course the defining notion was i was alone vs alliances of enemies. Yet in both cases i was the biggest, most dangerious force on the planet and ultimately was defeated simply by attrition.

    Lose a city, you have to fight rebels, lose an airfield (spy action) and you loss counterstrike capability, lose a home city and you loss the ability to build units. You see the biggest issue isn't countering stacks, is that every single enemy infantry unit has an overwhelming offensive capability over any and all defensive unit you defend with and there is literally no way to stop them getting built.

    I didn't lose these game because they played better, it was simply because i maxed a different infantry unit and couldn't defend myself.
    You can literally smash every enemy home city to dust, the next day they just start building infantry units again like it never happened.

    You could aruge, why did i just build infantry, well i could but then its purely a numbers game.
    Biggest alliance wins, hence game becomes less about playing the game, more about talking in chat.
  • crazystoner wrote:

    You speak like artillery is the be all and end all.
    Dont get me wrong, railguns are fantastic, but id rather stacks of special forces any day, SAS.

    While towed artillery is great, the reliance on AA is a burden.
    Any other artillery and you lack maneuverability.

    Last game i played with railguns, i think my stack ended the game with 200kills, never did get that level 5 army base either, think i even lost one. But railguns are exceptionally overpowered in the hands of a extraordinary commander.

    I recall one game i played as Chad, heavy mech, two stacks, 1 with 5/6 tanks the other 5/6 mobile artliiery, i lost the game, but i had Africa and dominated every single large scale engagement. I lost because the entire game i was under gorilla warfare and my tanks lacked the maneuverability to combat wave after wave after wave. Same thing happened when i played as Canada and rushed stealth bombers. Of course the defining notion was i was alone vs alliances of enemies. Yet in both cases i was the biggest, most dangerious force on the planet and ultimately was defeated simply by attrition.

    Lose a city, you have to fight rebels, lose an airfield (spy action) and you loss counterstrike capability, lose a home city and you loss the ability to build units. You see the biggest issue isn't countering stacks, is that every single enemy infantry unit has an overwhelming offensive capability over any and all defensive unit you defend with and there is literally no way to stop them getting built.

    I didn't lose these game because they played better, it was simply because i maxed a different infantry unit and couldn't defend myself.
    You can literally smash every enemy home city to dust, the next day they just start building infantry units again like it never happened.

    You could aruge, why did i just build infantry, well i could but then its purely a numbers game.
    Biggest alliance wins, hence game becomes less about playing the game, more about talking in chat.
    First: Railgun is not an artillery, Railguns are AA with artillery capabilities

    Second: Maxing Infantry already kind of an mistake. I hardly ever level my motorized beyond level 3, because infantries are not effective combat units.

    Third: Also that is why going for tanks is a bad idea.


    Choppers are one of the strongest units in the game, they helped me solowin win a 4x world map even though I had to fight an entire coalition on my own.
  • crazystoner wrote:

    While towed artillery is great, the reliance on AA is a burden.

    You need AA with everything, also if you just spam infantry. You just can't rely on taking his planes out with 1,6 defense against planes, that are attacking with 9 damage, infantry on max level is also not that cheap anymore. Of course you could also get just ASF but they get taken out by SAM if used too far in enemy land. Also is SAM very effective in taking out aircraft, because of their big range, so you don't need that many.
    And in the early game you can rely on ASF as AA.

    crazystoner wrote:

    I recall one game i played as Chad, heavy mech, two stacks, 1 with 5/6 tanks the other 5/6 mobile artliiery, i lost the game, but i had Africa and dominated every single large scale engagement. I lost because the entire game i was under gorilla warfare and my tanks lacked the maneuverability to combat wave after wave after wave.
    You just had 5/6 mobile artillery? That's not enough (could be enough if you were more in the early game, so also your enemy would be having a smaller army) and also MRL is better because of it's bigger range. Maybe you just
    -weren't active enough (without activity you just play worse, you need to be able to react to stuff and you cannot kite with artillery),
    -did not have any useful radar(mobile radar on lvl4 seems to be mandatory because it's the only high-range radar with low-ground-radar-signature, in the early game you can use ASF to scout)
    -or just need to learn a bit more.

    Something that would also help analyzing it would be which troops your enemy had and how many of them and which you had beside tanks and artillery and also how many.

    crazystoner wrote:

    Same thing happened when i played as Canada and rushed stealth bombers. Of course the defining notion was i was alone vs alliances of enemies. Yet in both cases i was the biggest, most dangerious force on the planet and ultimately was defeated simply by attrition.
    You know that I don't say that Stealth Bombers should be one of your most important army parts, but artillery should? And of course you get beaten by an multiple enemies, that's something that can happen also to good players(even though they would have good chances to win if they have artillery the opponents don't).


    crazystoner wrote:

    Lose a city, you have to fight rebels, lose an airfield (spy action) and you loss counterstrike capability, lose a home city and you loss the ability to build units. You see the biggest issue isn't countering stacks, is that every single enemy infantry unit has an overwhelming offensive capability over any and all defensive unit you defend with and there is literally no way to stop them getting built.
    Just don't let him get past your lines. If you are still having this problems, you can also build like 5 SFs to kill those who get past.

    crazystoner wrote:


    I didn't lose these game because they played better, it was simply because i maxed a different infantry unit and couldn't defend myself.
    You can literally smash every enemy home city to dust, the next day they just start building infantry units again like it never happened.
    Why are you maxing out infantry? Infantry is primarily there to occupy stuff and this ability is not affected by upgrading. You should rather upgrade stuff that should be used to deal damage, research new things like missiles and of course upgrade your radar.
  • Dorado drives itself with "pick rates", basically, when it comes to what needs nerf/buff in priority.

    (Naval awacs doesn't count :D )
    Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
  • crazystoner wrote:

    You speak like artillery is the be all and end all.
    Dont get me wrong, railguns are fantastic, but id rather stacks of special forces any day, SAS.

    While towed artillery is great, the reliance on AA is a burden.
    Any other artillery and you lack maneuverability.

    Last game i played with railguns, i think my stack ended the game with 200kills, never did get that level 5 army base either, think i even lost one. But railguns are exceptionally overpowered in the hands of a extraordinary commander.

    I recall one game i played as Chad, heavy mech, two stacks, 1 with 5/6 tanks the other 5/6 mobile artliiery, i lost the game, but i had Africa and dominated every single large scale engagement. I lost because the entire game i was under gorilla warfare and my tanks lacked the maneuverability to combat wave after wave after wave. Same thing happened when i played as Canada and rushed stealth bombers. Of course the defining notion was i was alone vs alliances of enemies. Yet in both cases i was the biggest, most dangerious force on the planet and ultimately was defeated simply by attrition.

    Lose a city, you have to fight rebels, lose an airfield (spy action) and you loss counterstrike capability, lose a home city and you loss the ability to build units. You see the biggest issue isn't countering stacks, is that every single enemy infantry unit has an overwhelming offensive capability over any and all defensive unit you defend with and there is literally no way to stop them getting built.

    I didn't lose these game because they played better, it was simply because i maxed a different infantry unit and couldn't defend myself.
    You can literally smash every enemy home city to dust, the next day they just start building infantry units again like it never happened.

    You could aruge, why did i just build infantry, well i could but then its purely a numbers game.
    Biggest alliance wins, hence game becomes less about playing the game, more about talking in chat.
    Wrong: I win. Unless someone is using massive Gold spies on me...

    ewac123 wrote:

    "Choppers are the best"
    Until a few level 1 ASF appear...
    I nver operate my choppers in enemy teritory...and always within SAM Range...send you ASF...they wont come home
    Alle sagten: Das geht nicht. Dann kam einer, der wusste das nicht und hat es einfach gemacht.