Infantry mortars need a nerf, specially on x4 games

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  • You would have to rework melee in its entirety to make it even come close to being viable within the meta and frankly, i don't see that happening anytime within the next decade tho i'd still say its somewhat working in public games you just have to cover a lot more than an arty player would have :D
    It's pretty much like any other game; offmeta picks are as good as any other until tryhards come along and bully everyone into the ground with meta

    about mot. Inf: only thing the mortar really does is bully inactive ppl even harder imo its not even that great simply cuz you have to get so close that you're pretty much always taking the speed penalty from being in enemy territory
    I am The Baseline for opinions

  • At least having the MRLs 1.3 instead of 1.5 changed a bit how easy (and ridiculously easy) it was.

    But to see the thing under dorado eyes : they will say that "artillery is not that much used by the general user, so if we nerf it too much it will not be used anymore".

    For them, it's not a problem that the 1% meta use them and do reliably predictable 10 K/D .

    It's the bigger picture that interests them.
    Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.

  • If an alliance fields mortar infantry in a challenge i'll make a formal request to the CaC to withdraw their sovereignty, for their own good. :D
    Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.

  • SAM's ahahah, the moment you build SAM sites, well look at the real world example of Armenia/Syria. Alot of good their SAM sites are and were, how many Isreali jets have been shot down? How many drones did Azerbaijani lose, point is, costs, upkeep and the static defensive nature of a sam site leave you awaiting defeat.

    Radars are- good, same issue, alot of research slots and investment and upkeep of a non offensive unit, sure you only need 1 but 3+ is better and everyone you lose is felt and an annoyance.

    Id argue any good alliance should have a player with low/limited troop numbers because of how upkeep works.
    But end of the day, its all good on paper but no plan survives first contact with the enemy.

    We could argue semantics all day but we have liteally arrived at saying infantry units are basiclly an artillery unit, while they are far from the best artillery unit (arguable railguns, some say MRL) they are indeed classed as an artillery unit.

  • First a challenge would need a very long truce period, to even get to mortar infantry :D


    Battle field awareness is always worth the effort, fighting blind is just not smart. You can't control, what you can't see.


    It is pretty normal these days to have 'farm players' in challenges, though less because of upkeep, because supply is hardly ever an issue.


    Railgun is still not an artillery, it is an AA with artillery function, like motorized infantry is infantry mit artillery function.
    In regards of being a artillery, RG is maybe third placed. Better than toweds but still worse than MA.
    They have huge damage, but they get debuffed pretty much everywhere, but they are the best AA against choppers.

  • It's a topic i would like to discuss in depth with you someday.

    I'm reluctant to make anyone have a "farm" or "nurse" role in challenges because it really pains me to say to a guy "sorry but you won't fight", while i see the merit.
    Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.

  • Opulon wrote:

    It's a topic i would like to discuss in depth with you someday.

    I'm reluctant to make anyone have a "farm" or "nurse" role in challenges because it really pains me to say to a guy "sorry but you won't fight", while i see the merit.
    About farms? We can talk about it any time :)



    Mobile Radar reaches T2 at L3 while AWACs reach T2 at L4

    It depends a lot on the unit and how many level up it has.

    Specialized subversion and Elites often have only 3 Ls, their 3 tiers and some units are only have T2 you could say like the stealth bomber

  • crazystoner wrote:

    yzjqx wrote:

    You have obviously never played against a player with an iq above 20 and knows how to use artillery :D If you did, then you wouldn't be claiming that railguns are overpowered. Fancy aa at best.
    I can play you if you like.How many artillery pieaces are you going to produce, thats if you make it past day 5 alive.

    Maneuverability, you don't think railguns are viable? why because they lack range. You send a stack of rocketlaunchers at me, my radars will know your coming, hell you'll show me your coming and ill send a decoy unit in advance to take intital barrage and then proceed to smash your artillery to pieces, then just helicopter deploy away.

    There are some better starting countries then others, likewise the strategy of Russia is different to say DR Congo or New Zealand.

    I have won games simply by sitting in New Zealand, completing a stack of 5 carriers, rolling up into europe with 40 naval strike aircraft onboard my 5 carriers. WHAT CAN YOU DO!? Nothing...

    Also the issue that artillery destories your moral, lowering your economic income.

    Don't get me wrong, AA and Artillery can be effective, but the upkeep, the building requirements and the lack of maneuverability means spy action, intelligence and clever maneuvering can overcome them.

    I suppose if your India and push West it could be effective, you can sustain a single front offensive with a viable number of troops, yet it will be slow going. I personally tend towards fighting on 3 fronts, and expanding at speed, i don't mind losing troops, because i use the market, i use moral and i cycle through unit types depending on the game day. I can always just build attack choppers if your just AA and Artillery, but like i said, that kind of investment into military hardware puts you at a massive disadvantage. Highly likely you will die before day 5 and by day 20/30 your upkeep will decimate your offensive ability. More with the threat of ballistic missiles requiring investment into theatre defense.

    This is fundmentally why mortar infantry are so strong, because they act like artillery, yet lack all of its downsides, like building investment, lack of maneuverability, lack of capture, they are even somewhat okay against aircraft all while forcing your enemy into these subpar units to counter them. Unless of course you go railguns and just clean up everything they throw at you everywhere.
    Yes i will waste my time replying because I find your comments absolutely hilarious. :D

    Ok so first off. I highly doubt you will be able to early game rush any player with a brain. Early game defense is much more skewed. If you really want to know, probably like 4 MA by day 5? that's assuming i go double lv 3 ab.

    Your point about tanking a shot and sending railguns clearly shows your inexperience in artillery to artillery combat. There is nothing stopping me from abusing my range advantage and retreating after shooting your "meatshield" stack. After a hour, i will simply come back to chew a bit more off your closest stack and run away. Especially with logistics built, there is almost 0 chance a railgun has any hope of catching up.

    Now, with regards to your argument on countries and carriers whatnot. Public matches are often not a very viable outlet for you to express your "skill" at the game. If your navy is only comprised of carriers and strikes, I have a lot of concerns for your ability elsewhere... Yes carriers are dominant irl but con does not work like irl and I hope you will realize that. Carriers are often a waste of resources and naval strike fighters are not a good source of naval damage. You can brute force your way through a 5 stack of frigates but you would easily loose more than you deal. Not very resource efficient... HIghly doubt it will do anything vs an experienced ranged combat player with a developed cruiser + frigate build.

    Yes artillery lowers moral only if you are an absolute monkey and leave it blind hitting a city to the ground. Most of the time combat happens outside of cities and hitting units in a province does not cause any moral penalty for your own territory. Even if you have to hit units in a city, sending in mele troops or hitting the city with air would reduce the population almost as much.

    Artillery + aa strategy is not as much of an investment as you may believe for its near infinite return value. Out of the games i have played so far, I do not think there is a single game where i died before day 5 and my upkeep has never been an issue until well into late game and the oil starts to reach a neutral production :D

    I still cannot fathom how after so long in this discussion you still refuse to recognize how land combat works. Sure it has 20 range and it can beat a mele stack because it outranges it. Mrls or MA are the longest ranged artillery units which is why they are most often used for land combat (MRLS > MA). Artillery can easily hit and run away as long as it has the range. AA for anti air unless they are running heavy AH in which case Awacs + asf might be necessary. Saying lv 6 infantry is broken only applies to facing other monkeys in public games.

    Overall my advice would be to understand the game more and find better strategies. Learning how to range combat is key. Railguns get demolished by an experienced MRLS player no matter what "meatshield" you throw at them (it is only free kills :D ). Please do try and learn! Maybe you can become a better player that way.

  • yzjqx wrote:

    there is almost 0 chance a railgun has any hope of catching up.

    developed cruiser + frigate build.

    Yes artillery lowers moral

    Artillery + aa strategy is not as much of an investment

    I still cannot fathom how after so long in this discussion you still refuse to recognize how land combat works.
    Should be have a dik measuring contest?

    Railguns can be helicopter deployed, so don't know where your running.
    But hey you want to blindly run into a bunkered city housing my defensive units and airfield with nothing but an armored radar signal. Go for it im sure i'll know excatly whats coming days in advance. Dont forget to take out the roads leading up to the city as i perfer to have movement bonuses if im defensive.

    5 carrier stacks have over 600 hitpoints and naval strike fighters deal somewhere around 7 damage on naval vessels. There is a reason i freely moved into serbia without any resistance, every single nation that had naval vessels didn't want to engage such overwhelming force because they would inevitably lose. You think cruisers and frigates are good? ahahah pretty sure the default destoriers dominate frigate rushes and as for cruisers ahahaha well thats my secret.

    They sure do, alot of moral compared with helicopters and infantry. But im sure your a godly economical powerhouse.

    Not much of an investment, thats about a week or two of 24/7 research to make them useable, longer if you want to counter helicopter counters. But hey invest all you want, don't forget to upgrade those airbases so you can move them.

    Land combat works by bringing 5 allies units into one location, waiting for the enemy to amass their troops then in a single day deciding who wins a 1-2 month long game. Here is a hint, its me, im the winner.

    Dont get me wrong, your multiple rocket launchers are good, but they are low hitpoints, nothing a 16hp cruise missile cant take out. We could argue, you have 5 of this 5 of that and i could argue i have attack helicopters maxed out. End of the day, i dont use artillery because they suck, i use special forces and i dominate the seas, because they are the only unit in the game that counters the overpowered mortar infantry and if you think you'd get away with building that sort of force. Well my spies are going to have a field day destroying your buildings, halting your production and my naval vessel will eat your transport alive. But hey these ballastic bombers are fun are they not :D

    Your talking about combat like its a boxing match, like we agree on a field of battle a time of day and the leaders have a 1 on 1 engagment. No, NO thats not how it works, how it works is i defeat you when im good and ready and up until that point your just a toy im playing with.

    Lets keep the artillery duels to naval battles shall we?
    Leave the land battles to the aircraft, spies and missiles.
    Because lets be honest, anything else and your just building trash heaps that ill turn into rubble when i splash damage you with my icbm.

    But yeah, if you could not upgrade to mortars, that would make my job of defeating you alot easier :) Cheers!
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    The post was edited 1 time, last by crazystoner ().

  • yzjqx wrote:

    ...

    Ok so first off. I highly doubt you will be able to early game rush any player with a brain. Early game defense is much more skewed. If you really want to know, probably like 4 MA by day 5? that's assuming i go double lv 3 ab.

    ...
    OK, I'm not objecting to anything here, I am just trying to get some clarification, because I don't see how what you said is possible. First, I'm assuming "MA" is Mobile Artillery and "lv 3 ab" is level 3 Army Base, not level 3 Airbase. ... But my real question is ... unless you are using Eastern Doctrine with it's (-1) day start on MA, how could you possibly have the resources for 4 MA AND 2 level 3 Army Bases, and the time to get all that built by day 5 unless you didn't use resources for anything else like some type of infantry and ASF??? Unless you were using gold?
    *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***
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    "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD

  • Better question is how hes going to defend a 9stack of level 2/3 infantry supported by recons with a lvl 2/3 commander rolling up on his level 3 army bases like. Oh free armybases to sell / annex later in the game :) hell moment i see level 2 army bases id attack you like begone tank spammer, resource waster. Guess with his starting tow artillery ahahahah

  • crazystoner wrote:

    Better question is how hes going to defend a 9stack of level 2/3 infantry supported by recons with a lvl 2/3 commander rolling up on his level 3 army bases like. Oh free armybases to sell / annex later in the game :) hell moment i see level 2 army bases id attack you like begone tank spammer, resource waster. Guess with his starting tow artillery ahahahah
    I don't think that's a better question or I would have asked it. :P
    *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***
    The KING of CoN News!!!
    The "Get off my lawn!" cranky CoN Forums Poster - not affiliated with Dorado in any way


    "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD

  • AND, as far as a "Dik Off" Contest:
    -
    dik off.jpg-
    It seems to me YZJQX is doing better than CRAZYSTONER in the metrics displayed in CS's dik pic.

    Win%
    CS: 19.6%
    YZ: 53.6%

    Provinces Taken/Lost
    CS: 1.99
    YZ: 9.92

    Of course total K/d isn't displayed, but for the curious it's
    CS: 2.56
    YZ: 9.29

    ...

    SO, the only thing I see the CS method being superior in, is number of games played. YZ's methods seem to be producing a better outcome, by quite a lot. I mean direct comparing the number of provinces or numbers of kills can't be done when 1 has had so many more opportunities than another.

    Just sayin' ... solely based on dik pics ...
    *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***
    The KING of CoN News!!!
    The "Get off my lawn!" cranky CoN Forums Poster - not affiliated with Dorado in any way


    "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Dealer of Death ().

  • Dealer of Death wrote:

    AND, as far as a "Dik Off" Contest:
    -
    dik off.jpg-
    It seems to me YZJQX is doing better than CRAZYSTONER in the metrics displayed in CS's dik pic.

    Win%
    CS: 19.6%
    YZ: 53.6%

    Provinces Taken/Lost
    CS: 1.99
    YZ: 9.92

    Of course total K/d isn't displayed, but for the curious it's
    CS: 2.56
    YZ: 9.29

    ...

    SO, the only thing I see the CS method being superior in, is number of games played. YZ's methods seem to be producing a better outcome, by quite a lot. I mean direct comparing the number of provinces or numbers of kills can't be done when 1 has had so many more opportunities than another.

    Just sayin' ... solely based on dik pics ...
    waiting for the usual "he must be using gold" comment :D


    edit: totally forgot about adding this very important pic
    Files
    I am The Baseline for opinions

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Teburu ().

  • Dealer of Death wrote:

    yzjqx wrote:

    ...

    Ok so first off. I highly doubt you will be able to early game rush any player with a brain. Early game defense is much more skewed. If you really want to know, probably like 4 MA by day 5? that's assuming i go double lv 3 ab.

    ...
    OK, I'm not objecting to anything here, I am just trying to get some clarification, because I don't see how what you said is possible. First, I'm assuming "MA" is Mobile Artillery and "lv 3 ab" is level 3 Army Base, not level 3 Airbase. ... But my real question is ... unless you are using Eastern Doctrine with it's (-1) day start on MA, how could you possibly have the resources for 4 MA AND 2 level 3 Army Bases, and the time to get all that built by day 5 unless you didn't use resources for anything else like some type of infantry and ASF??? Unless you were using gold?
    Lolll sorry i made a mistake. day 1 - 5 is 96 hours and not 120 xD. But the overall strat that i do early game is 2 cities get ab1 and arms 1 and produce 2 rounds of 2 maa before i get lv 3 army base. When i get lv 3 army base i can produce about 2-3 rounds of 2 MA before i run out of rss in which case i start going 1 per day. Tbh i don't get infantry at the start but i do get an arms in the capitol for a few asf. I don't spam army base and arms industry in every city so i usually have enough rss for the army base 3 rounds (except for a few arms industry upgrades in elec and rare city).

    But yea on day 5 i will have 2 MA and almost 2 more done since I got the timing wrong ^.

  • crazystoner wrote:

    yzjqx wrote:

    there is almost 0 chance a railgun has any hope of catching up.

    developed cruiser + frigate build.

    Yes artillery lowers moral

    Artillery + aa strategy is not as much of an investment

    I still cannot fathom how after so long in this discussion you still refuse to recognize how land combat works.
    Should be have a dik measuring contest?
    Railguns can be helicopter deployed, so don't know where your running.
    But hey you want to blindly run into a bunkered city housing my defensive units and airfield with nothing but an armored radar signal. Go for it im sure i'll know excatly whats coming days in advance. Dont forget to take out the roads leading up to the city as i perfer to have movement bonuses if im defensive.

    5 carrier stacks have over 600 hitpoints and naval strike fighters deal somewhere around 7 damage on naval vessels. There is a reason i freely moved into serbia without any resistance, every single nation that had naval vessels didn't want to engage such overwhelming force because they would inevitably lose. You think cruisers and frigates are good? ahahah pretty sure the default destoriers dominate frigate rushes and as for cruisers ahahaha well thats my secret.

    They sure do, alot of moral compared with helicopters and infantry. But im sure your a godly economical powerhouse.

    Not much of an investment, thats about a week or two of 24/7 research to make them useable, longer if you want to counter helicopter counters. But hey invest all you want, don't forget to upgrade those airbases so you can move them.

    Land combat works by bringing 5 allies units into one location, waiting for the enemy to amass their troops then in a single day deciding who wins a 1-2 month long game. Here is a hint, its me, im the winner.

    Dont get me wrong, your multiple rocket launchers are good, but they are low hitpoints, nothing a 16hp cruise missile cant take out. We could argue, you have 5 of this 5 of that and i could argue i have attack helicopters maxed out. End of the day, i dont use artillery because they suck, i use special forces and i dominate the seas, because they are the only unit in the game that counters the overpowered mortar infantry and if you think you'd get away with building that sort of force. Well my spies are going to have a field day destroying your buildings, halting your production and my naval vessel will eat your transport alive. But hey these ballastic bombers are fun are they not :D

    Your talking about combat like its a boxing match, like we agree on a field of battle a time of day and the leaders have a 1 on 1 engagment. No, NO thats not how it works, how it works is i defeat you when im good and ready and up until that point your just a toy im playing with.

    Lets keep the artillery duels to naval battles shall we?
    Leave the land battles to the aircraft, spies and missiles.
    Because lets be honest, anything else and your just building trash heaps that ill turn into rubble when i splash damage you with my icbm.

    But yeah, if you could not upgrade to mortars, that would make my job of defeating you alot easier :) Cheers!
    >Says No that is not how it works but adds whatever unit he wants
    >It seems like you don't win very often (Have you tried
    >Sams vs the cms. Asf and awacs vs the attack helis. Crv to spot the specops (preetty cheap solution imo!).
    I agree the ballastic bombers are quite fun! That is your first statement i agree with

    Btw i hope you realize railguns are not stealth during air assult. (free asf food). As most air assult units go they also get a 1 hour drop time. Artillery is always kept behind the border so you will need to fly into my range (1 free shot during ur drop time). Then you need to fight the -33% speed modifier in enemy territory to get to me if i run away? I'm sorry I don't understand your logic lolll. You will also need to find an open ground/desert/city to drop in or your attacks just tickle as well...

    Spies go both ways :D I see you have never fought anyone sentient. Especially since you assume I send naval transports by themselves?? Man what kind of bots are you playing against lol.