Air game and counters

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    • Air game and counters

      In the game I am in now, China has been a close ally with my geographical opponent, Russia, with who I am not at war, but there seems to be some tension. My ground game is far more advanced than Russia, but what is stopping an invasion is that his ally China has an amazing air game. Elite bombers, leveled up fighters, etc. As a result, I've made a mad dash towards defensive technologies, such as Sams and Theater Defenses. While I know many people praise both the supports, Mobile Anti-air battalions seem to be super useful, and I've created 6 in order to deal damage in the case of a war between China and me from the ground. How useful do you think they are? I was looking at air superiority fighters, would they just be a better investment than mobile antiairs?
    • StopThereCowboy wrote:

      In the game I am in now, China has been a close ally with my geographical opponent, Russia, with who I am not at war, but there seems to be some tension. My ground game is far more advanced than Russia, but what is stopping an invasion is that his ally China has an amazing air game. Elite bombers, leveled up fighters, etc. As a result, I've made a mad dash towards defensive technologies, such as Sams and Theater Defenses. While I know many people praise both the supports, Mobile Anti-air battalions seem to be super useful, and I've created 6 in order to deal damage in the case of a war between China and me from the ground. How useful do you think they are? I was looking at air superiority fighters, would they just be a better investment than mobile antiairs?
      My strategy involves deploying the counter of a unit, not a tech race. Using air superiority jets against an air invasion is a tech race; using SAMS is a turkey shoot.

      As for the usefulness - AA is more useful in more situations, but it is primarily for shooting down helicopters. It just turns out that the tools used to shoot them down also work alright at shooting down people too (but not armor). I also learned, the hard way, that AA is next to useless against high level attack aircraft. The damage differential is just too great when you get hit by two stacks of strike aircraft - unless of course you have all 6 in one stack (but then, what are they protecting?)

      Also TDS is primarily for ICBM defense. If your opponent is only using cruise missiles, SAMs are usually more than sufficient at defending against them. Plus TDS is hella expensive to deploy and slower than molasses in a blizzard.
    • DOA70 wrote:

      Also TDS is primarily for ICBM defense. If your opponent is only using cruise missiles, SAMs are usually more than sufficient at defending against them. Plus TDS is hella expensive to deploy and slower than molasses in a blizzard.
      But if the missiles are of higher level, you may want to bring a few TDS.
      lv4l: 11 hp
      max lvl: 15 hp
      SAM lvl4: 3dmg
      SAM max lvl:5,5 dmg
      a.k.a. jem and and eres
    • Jemandanderes wrote:

      DOA70 wrote:

      Also TDS is primarily for ICBM defense. If your opponent is only using cruise missiles, SAMs are usually more than sufficient at defending against them. Plus TDS is hella expensive to deploy and slower than molasses in a blizzard.
      But if the missiles are of higher level, you may want to bring a few TDS.lv4l: 11 hp
      max lvl: 15 hp
      SAM lvl4: 3dmg
      SAM max lvl:5,5 dmg
      I usually have my SAMs go in a minimum of groups of two - and that is one of the reasons. I also like being able to take out at least 1 striker per attack (and if I'm lucky, 3). If my opponent has high level air/missiles, I will typically send my SAMs in groups of three.
    • DOA70 wrote:

      Jemandanderes wrote:

      DOA70 wrote:

      Also TDS is primarily for ICBM defense. If your opponent is only using cruise missiles, SAMs are usually more than sufficient at defending against them. Plus TDS is hella expensive to deploy and slower than molasses in a blizzard.
      But if the missiles are of higher level, you may want to bring a few TDS.lv4l: 11 hpmax lvl: 15 hp
      SAM lvl4: 3dmg
      SAM max lvl:5,5 dmg
      I usually have my SAMs go in a minimum of groups of two - and that is one of the reasons. I also like being able to take out at least 1 striker per attack (and if I'm lucky, 3). If my opponent has high level air/missiles, I will typically send my SAMs in groups of three.
      Running the same idea right now. Three groups in total, two groups protecting my capital and surrounding cities and the last group is sitting at the closest airfield my opponent has. I have 3-4 SAMs per group, and one theater defense system per group. I had a missile shot at me maybe a week ago, and it got shot down in an instant. I would like to stack more per group, but it probably won't make a difference. The reload time on the SAMs and theater defense systems limit the defense abilities. Here's to hoping that no missiles get past.
    • StopThereCowboy wrote:

      In the game I am in now, China has been a close ally with my geographical opponent, Russia, with who I am not at war, but there seems to be some tension. My ground game is far more advanced than Russia, but what is stopping an invasion is that his ally China has an amazing air game. Elite bombers, leveled up fighters, etc. As a result, I've made a mad dash towards defensive technologies, such as Sams and Theater Defenses. While I know many people praise both the supports, Mobile Anti-air battalions seem to be super useful, and I've created 6 in order to deal damage in the case of a war between China and me from the ground. How useful do you think they are? I was looking at air superiority fighters, would they just be a better investment than mobile antiairs?
      Don't use mobile AA against strike fighters and bombers. You will only scratch them.
      I don't know what game day was when you wrote this but on 20-30th game day a dedicated air player can easely produce 50+ strikers/bombers with some support of ASF (to create 4+1 strike groups). So up to 100 planes. Ofc hospital lvl5 is a must.
      What can you do with 6 mobile AA against that?

      You need to have both, SAM and ASF to counter. And you have to upgrade SAM at least for range and few upgrades for ASF.

      And when you have SAM/ASF, then you have to deal with Russia first. Because Chinese player can use his airfields. So you have to push in Russia.
      If China can only attack you with bombers from his airports it is easier for you to defend. Strike fighters can't reach you.
      And bombers are meeh.
    • i don't know why nobody said 'rail guns' yet, since they are the answer to everything :).

      seriously, vs a heavy air player, i would normally go a stack of 7 rails, 1 radar, and mech inf as HP pool. keep 3 RGs back home for defense, and have 2x ASF stacks, as levelled as you can. behind that, you can put what you like, like another stack with radar as a backup, more SAMs if they are really air-heavy, ... That way,

      - you combine the reactive and proactive Teburu was mentioning above: you can intercept bad things being thrown and you with ASF proactively, and hit whatever passes that filter reactively;
      - you have a set that works very well with choppers, bombers, strikers and missiles;
      - you save a LOT on research (yes, they only start being useful after lvl 2 and rock only when maxed, but i presume since you're talking TDS you're past or around day 28);
      - you can jump - because RGs also do that... and that by the way is also a good trick vs missiles (if there is no other air around), because you have a 1 min boarding time...

      of course, they don't do anti-planes as well as a SAM, they don't do anti-missile as well as a TDS, and they don't do anti-chopper as well as MAA. But they shoot ground units better than any of them.

      Just don't keep them in a forest... :), for what i remember both Russia and China have plenty of open grounds, where you get that sweet +25% which makes the RG as good as a SAM vs planes, and so much better than a SAM vs everything else.

      s

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Sgniappo ().

    • Sgniappo wrote:

      i don't know why nobody said 'rail guns' yet, since they are the answer to everything :).
      Because you can only use them when you had SC at the end of the season in which the rail gun was introduced or SC at the end of later seasons, where you can also unlock older Elite troops. And most of the players didn't.
      a.k.a. jem and and eres
    • Update: Went ahead with my invasion. Russia wasn't happy. I pushed past his frontline and destroyed his airfield hosting all of his important jets. Made my way down to Africa at the same time and pretty much curbed India and China, who were located there. The Anti-Air Battalions (level 3) did very well against cruise missiles but lacked the ability to take on China's choppers and fighters in any meaningful way.

      In future games, I will probably only consider mobile anti-airs if my opponent is playing with cruise missiles. I did not find them very helpful against air vehicles. It may have just been smarter to have put my recourses into more SAMs, and upgraded them so they could move faster with my military :whistling:

      It could also be the case that my mobile anti-airs were not upgraded all that much and that if I wanted them to be more effective, I could've researched them more. They were after all going up against level 5-6 fighters and choppers But looking at the mobile anti-air stats, it wouldn't have made a huge difference if they were level 3 or 4 or 5. So they may be good early game to mid-game, but I do not see them being useful past that unless you are stacking them in groups of six, and if you are doing that, you may as well just develop a better air game and ground game instead of putting your resources into a dollar store-knock off SAM.
    • Teburu wrote:

      StopThereCowboy wrote:

      In future games, I will probably only consider mobile anti-airs if my opponent is playing with cruise missiles
      you like.... realize mobile AA has the lowest dmg vs missiles out of all units?
      Did not stop the fact that they did well against them. I had three shot at me over the course of a day and none hit. Whether that be because of my opponent's incompetencies or my own luck has yet to be seen. Furthermore, I did not choose the mobile aa because of their damage against cruise missiles. It just happened to help me this once.
    • StopThereCowboy wrote:

      Update: Went ahead with my invasion. Russia wasn't happy. I pushed past his frontline and destroyed his airfield hosting all of his important jets. Made my way down to Africa at the same time and pretty much curbed India and China, who were located there. The Anti-Air Battalions (level 3) did very well against cruise missiles but lacked the ability to take on China's choppers and fighters in any meaningful way.

      In future games, I will probably only consider mobile anti-airs if my opponent is playing with cruise missiles. I did not find them very helpful against air vehicles. It may have just been smarter to have put my recourses into more SAMs, and upgraded them so they could move faster with my military :whistling:

      It could also be the case that my mobile anti-airs were not upgraded all that much and that if I wanted them to be more effective, I could've researched them more. They were after all going up against level 5-6 fighters and choppers But looking at the mobile anti-air stats, it wouldn't have made a huge difference if they were level 3 or 4 or 5. So they may be good early game to mid-game, but I do not see them being useful past that unless you are stacking them in groups of six, and if you are doing that, you may as well just develop a better air game and ground game instead of putting your resources into a dollar store-knock off SAM.
      how many AA were in your stacks? They are exemplary in defending against choppers, but a 3 level difference is fairly significant (think Vietnam war equipment vs current forces).
    • DOA70 wrote:

      StopThereCowboy wrote:

      Update: Went ahead with my invasion. Russia wasn't happy. I pushed past his frontline and destroyed his airfield hosting all of his important jets. Made my way down to Africa at the same time and pretty much curbed India and China, who were located there. The Anti-Air Battalions (level 3) did very well against cruise missiles but lacked the ability to take on China's choppers and fighters in any meaningful way.

      In future games, I will probably only consider mobile anti-airs if my opponent is playing with cruise missiles. I did not find them very helpful against air vehicles. It may have just been smarter to have put my recourses into more SAMs, and upgraded them so they could move faster with my military :whistling:

      It could also be the case that my mobile anti-airs were not upgraded all that much and that if I wanted them to be more effective, I could've researched them more. They were after all going up against level 5-6 fighters and choppers But looking at the mobile anti-air stats, it wouldn't have made a huge difference if they were level 3 or 4 or 5. So they may be good early game to mid-game, but I do not see them being useful past that unless you are stacking them in groups of six, and if you are doing that, you may as well just develop a better air game and ground game instead of putting your resources into a dollar store-knock off SAM.
      how many AA were in your stacks? They are exemplary in defending against choppers, but a 3 level difference is fairly significant (think Vietnam war equipment vs current forces).
      From what I remember, I had about 4 per stack in one of the groups pushing into south-eastern Africa, and another who was not far behind with 3 in the stack.
    • So from my experience if you know you are going to go against both fighters and choppers, it's way better to just invest in Mobile Anti Air Vehicles. The reason is while their missile defense is weak (maybe needs a slight buff, that's besides the point though) they solve the immediate problem of handling helicopters and aircraft. Instead of having to go into two separate research tracks of Mobile SAMs and ASF or Mobile SAMS and Mobile AA. They are also an inactive defense in that you don't need to be around and they still do their thing, while if you are relying on ASF you basically have to be online every hour or a helicopter group might destroy your entire stack in a few passes. As long as you have at least 3 Mobile AA in all your groups you should be safe against basic missiles. If they were a bigger worry you could also just research forward TDS as it has okay damage against aircraft but amazing missile defense, downside is that it is so slow! (Again maybe needs a slight buff in some way)
    • StopThereCowboy wrote:

      DOA70 wrote:

      StopThereCowboy wrote:

      Update: Went ahead with my invasion. Russia wasn't happy. I pushed past his frontline and destroyed his airfield hosting all of his important jets. Made my way down to Africa at the same time and pretty much curbed India and China, who were located there. The Anti-Air Battalions (level 3) did very well against cruise missiles but lacked the ability to take on China's choppers and fighters in any meaningful way.

      In future games, I will probably only consider mobile anti-airs if my opponent is playing with cruise missiles. I did not find them very helpful against air vehicles. It may have just been smarter to have put my recourses into more SAMs, and upgraded them so they could move faster with my military :whistling:

      It could also be the case that my mobile anti-airs were not upgraded all that much and that if I wanted them to be more effective, I could've researched them more. They were after all going up against level 5-6 fighters and choppers But looking at the mobile anti-air stats, it wouldn't have made a huge difference if they were level 3 or 4 or 5. So they may be good early game to mid-game, but I do not see them being useful past that unless you are stacking them in groups of six, and if you are doing that, you may as well just develop a better air game and ground game instead of putting your resources into a dollar store-knock off SAM.
      how many AA were in your stacks? They are exemplary in defending against choppers, but a 3 level difference is fairly significant (think Vietnam war equipment vs current forces).
      From what I remember, I had about 4 per stack in one of the groups pushing into south-eastern Africa, and another who was not far behind with 3 in the stack.
      That should have been more than enough to provide great protection from choppers and ok protection from airplanes. The enemy may have just overwhelmed you with numbers and/or you may have been operating in bad terrain for AA. That plus the sharp variance in levels was enough to cause your units to meet the Grim Reaper of Pixels. In any event, you were on a viable, if not optimal, path, in my opinion.